Author Topic: Southend Cycle Town - part 2  (Read 237272 times)

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #575 on: 05 August, 2010, 11:48:56 am »
A bit up thread I put a pic of the Greenway at Highfield Crescent and can report that they have now finished that section, to Gainsborough Drv, with the block work ramping and are now doing the same to the other side of the road.

During an extended utility ride I took a quick ride along the Western Esplanade bike path. Just after entering the lane, heading west from the Pier, a red Fiesta opened it's passenger side doors. Up ahead two girls, 7-9 years old, sprinted towards me but on the footway. Just before me they both decided to run into the bike path. They didn't see me until I had done my emergency stop and both managed to get around me with very shocked looks on their faces. It must have been a mirror of my expression.   :o

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #576 on: 05 August, 2010, 12:31:25 pm »
The Highway Code doesn't make any provision for cyclists to filter on the left (unless there's a cycle lane).  On the other hand, overtaking on the right can be buttock-clenchingly dangerous with oncoming traffic, since there is never a nice 1.5 metres (or an opening door's width) between the cars and the centre line and you end up on the wrong side of the road all the time.

On balance, filtering on the left is usually safer but entirely at your own risk - certainly not worth it at side roads, and you have to be constantly on alert for opening passenger doors.  Or you can sit and wait, but then there's not much point in riding the bike.  Difficult one.
You are correct that the Highway Code makes no direct mention of passing on the left, however Rule 151 states:

In slow-moving traffic. You should:

reduce the distance between you and the vehicle ahead to maintain traffic flow
never get so close to the vehicle in front that you cannot stop safely
leave enough space to be able to manoeuvre if the vehicle in front breaks down or an emergency vehicle needs to get past
not change lanes to the left to overtake
allow access into and from side roads, as blocking these will add to congestion
be aware of cyclists and motorcyclists who may be passing on either side

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #577 on: 05 August, 2010, 01:20:34 pm »
The HC is ambiguously written in many places; that could be read as applying to multi-lane roads (e.g. queued on a dual carriageway or motorway) when motorcyclists in particular always filter between lanes.

It would be nice if someone at the DfT could clear up the filtering question once and for all; as it stands I suspect you don't have much comeback if you get doored when overtaking stationary cars on the left.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #578 on: 05 August, 2010, 01:24:51 pm »
The HC is ambiguously written in many places; that could be read as applying to multi-lane roads (e.g. queued on a dual carriageway or motorway) when motorcyclists in particular always filter between lanes.

It would be nice if someone at the DfT could clear up the filtering question once and for all; as it stands I suspect you don't have much comeback if you get doored when overtaking stationary cars on the left.

In an ordinary road I would pass a stationary vehicle on the right, in slow moving traffic I pass on whichever side has more space.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #579 on: 05 August, 2010, 01:46:20 pm »
On balance, filtering on the left is usually safer but entirely at your own risk - certainly not worth it at side roads, and you have to be constantly on alert for opening passenger doors.  Or you can sit and wait, but then there's not much point in riding the bike.  Difficult one.

Errr no.  Unless you made a typo, and mean filtering on the right.
Your Royal Charles are belong to us.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #580 on: 05 August, 2010, 01:59:48 pm »

Hi all,

While there is little in the Highway Code in respect to passing on the left of a vehicle (as the HC is a document that primarily provides information about road traffic legislation and recommendations and as such deals mainly with what is prohibited), there is a lot more guidance that could be found in the Civil Courts.

The Civil Courts, when looking to establish liability/fault see passing on the left or undertaking as a highly dangerous manoeuvre. It tends to take you into a position where nobody else is expecting you to be or more dangerously, cant see you. That's not only the vehicle that you're passing. Having any sort of incident while passing on the left will often result in liability being split as a best case scenario, and not always 50/50.

Not much help I know, but a clear indication that deciding to go left rather than right, or to go left rather than holding back for a few moments can be a no no.

Also, there is no legal requirement on a car to have a side mirror on the left hand side. Your car will pass an MOT with just the internal rear view mirror and a mirror mounted on the right/drivers door/right side panel. Passing to the left of any such vehicle takes you into a huge blind spot!

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #581 on: 05 August, 2010, 02:00:50 pm »
If there is a marked cycle lane, then the above would be cast away I would have thought.
Your Royal Charles are belong to us.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #582 on: 05 August, 2010, 02:03:32 pm »
On balance, filtering on the left is usually safer but entirely at your own risk - certainly not worth it at side roads, and you have to be constantly on alert for opening passenger doors.  Or you can sit and wait, but then there's not much point in riding the bike.  Difficult one.

Errr no.  Unless you made a typo, and mean filtering on the right.

We'll just have to disagree on that one.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #583 on: 05 August, 2010, 02:06:07 pm »
If there is a marked cycle lane, then the above would be cast away I would have thought.

yes, if there is a marked cycle lane then the onus is upon other orad users to expect the same to be occupied (with bicycles hopefully)

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #584 on: 05 August, 2010, 03:57:06 pm »
The HC is ambiguously written in many places; that could be read as applying to multi-lane roads (e.g. queued on a dual carriageway or motorway) when motorcyclists in particular always filter between lanes.

It would be nice if someone at the DfT could clear up the filtering question once and for all; as it stands I suspect you don't have much comeback if you get doored when overtaking stationary cars on the left.

My understanding is that the case law indicates that, when filtering either side, if doored the liability is solely with the driver of the motor vehicle*.  Not sure about the other aspects.


Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

spindrift

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #585 on: 05 August, 2010, 05:57:31 pm »
did you know 50% of people who die on bikes do so because of undertaking cars/vans etc.  

Do you have a source for this claim please?

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #586 on: 05 August, 2010, 06:45:30 pm »
As a heads up: The seafront works now have a heavily signed 20mph speed limit. There is also a contraflow, and available road is much narrower than previously. Consequently there is now only one way to cycle along the Golden 'Mile'. Primary all the way.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/6g0l-EqwqKk&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/6g0l-EqwqKk&rel=1</a>

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #587 on: 05 August, 2010, 06:54:42 pm »
I hope it isn't permanent but at the moment you can't turn right at the bottom of Pier Hill to Western Espl.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #588 on: 05 August, 2010, 07:10:44 pm »

Not much help I know, but a clear indication that deciding to go left rather than right, or to go left rather than holding back for a few moments can be a no no.


Thanks for that. :thumbsup:

I don't like filtering up the left as it is. It certainly is dodgy and it's worth knowing that if it goes wrong and I survive, then I don't have much of a leg tostand on as far as the law goes.

Another good reason for overtaking instead of undertaking, or just hanging back.

Wowbagger

  • Former Sylph
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #589 on: 05 August, 2010, 07:16:01 pm »
did you know 50% of people who die on bikes do so because of undertaking cars/vans etc.  

Do you have a source for this claim please?

I think it's wrong.

There was a suppressed government report which indicated that, during a several year spell in London, (87% I think) of women killed on bikes were left-hooked by HGVs. For some reason the figure for men was much lower. Many people interpreted it as an indication that men usually cycle more assertively than women do.

There was a Times article about this, but it's now probably behind a firewall.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

spindrift

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #590 on: 05 August, 2010, 07:21:37 pm »
I understand the top 3 cycling RTAs are caused by sideswiping, dooring and overtaking and turning left.

Being hit from behind is more common than it ought to be too.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #591 on: 07 August, 2010, 02:48:54 pm »
Warning to riders on the path.  I suspect that we're seeing the same issue on new roads where the oils are coming out of the tarmac and making the dry path slippery.   (This is why new/resurfaced roads carry the warning signs of "slippery surface").


I nearly trashed a kid last night  >:( >:( :( :( :( :(


Riding a slow bike into a headwind, slower than usual for a commute because the pedestrians were standing on the track and getting in/out of the car, and I'm fully aware of the hazard that the Council have created here*. 

Little kid suddenly ran out in front of me so I hauled on the anchors and shat meself when the bike just locked up and didn't slow.   Fortunately I managed to avoid any collision.

Brake test after brake test for the rest of the ride home, each and every time the bike stopped instantly.  It's a nearly new bike in great condition.  v-brakes etc.

The only thing I can think of is that the surface of the cycle path (now with thick black skid mark) doesn't offer the traction you'd expect.



I rode the rest of the way home on the road instead of the cycle track.  I got abuse from the occupants of two separate cars.  Apparently I should have been on the ***ing cycle path.    >:( >:( >:( >:(




* If we asked them to put parking along the centre white line of a road I'm sure they'd say 'no, it's too dangerous with traffic passing on both sides'.   Why have they put parking between a live carriageway and two way cyclist traffic?

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #592 on: 07 August, 2010, 03:03:15 pm »
Warning to riders on the path.  I suspect that we're seeing the same issue on new roads where the oils are coming out of the tarmac and making the dry path slippery.   (This is why new/resurfaced roads carry the warning signs of "slippery surface").
Was your close call just west of the casino? I saw slick of oil just there when I went by the other day. I was going to use fillthathole to report it but forgot until your post.  :-[

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #593 on: 07 August, 2010, 03:06:45 pm »
East.  Outside the three shells.   

Where you have to run the gauntlet between the pavement and parked cars.



Please do report the oil slick if it's still there.  (The Council employees are telling me that I'm the only person who has a problem with this facility - apparently everybody else absolutely loves it...   )

I didn't notice the oil slick because I was in the road and being subjected to abuse.   

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #594 on: 07 August, 2010, 03:09:41 pm »
East.  Outside the three shells. 
That was were the two girls run out in front of me.

Oil slick reported.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #595 on: 07 August, 2010, 03:11:54 pm »
East.  Outside the three shells. 
That was were the two girls run out in front of me.

It's what we predicted at the cycle group when we saw the plans for the first time just a few days before the construction was completed.

There's gonna be an injury down there sooner or later.


And that's why I'm so annoyed at last night's close call.  I was expecting it.  I was riding accordingly.  It happened.  I reacted, and then found there was no braking traction  >:(

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #596 on: 07 August, 2010, 03:13:43 pm »
And that's why I'm so annoyed at last night's close call.  I was expecting it.  I was riding accordingly.  It happened.  I reacted, and then found there was no braking traction  >:(
Donut (sic) grease I 'spect!  ;)

More likely the Shells delivery van that parks half up the footway and half over the cycle path.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #597 on: 07 August, 2010, 03:18:54 pm »
Hhhmmm...   good suggestion, but there were no obvious grease marks on the DRY path.

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #598 on: 07 August, 2010, 03:36:17 pm »
Just got back from a quick ride up to Leigh and back. Got the following on the way:


First, this is new, yours Nutty?



Then this:




While I was taking the second photo of the coach a police car drove past and took zero notice.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #599 on: 07 August, 2010, 03:39:58 pm »
Where do the regular buses pull up to set down and pick up? I haven't seen one on the front since the path went in.