What stove?

[agagisgroovy]

Thinking of getting a "proper" stove  . I have a mini Trangia at the minute which is OK, but attracts teasing, is a bit slow and the flame is a bit unpredictable in the wind.

Took a Jetboil on a recent outing, liked the concept and rapid brew making ability but the neoprene cosy seemed a little delicate if you got it damp (inevitable in a snowhole).

On a studenty budget, so not sure whether to get a cheap gas stove and windshield to use with the pots I already have, or whether to save up and go for something a little more exotic. Always wanted to have an MSR dragonfly, but not sure how safe it is in confined spaces, and how would you buy fuel for it while touring (most pumps sell a minimum of 5 litres)?

Any suggestions? 

[Kim]

Trangia with gas burner?  Best windshield in the business, and would allow you to use your existing burner...

[Dave_C]

Kevin Rae will know I understand he has around 10. I used to have a Whisperlite and liked it lots. I did like the look of the Dragonfly but already had the Whisperlite. I used Colman Fuel in it and getting enough for a week away was never a problem, the larger can held more than enough for a long weekend. I never tried any other fuel.

[LEE]

Trangia with gas burner?  Best windshield in the business, and would allow you to use your existing burner...

I'm just about to order a gas burner for my Trangia 27UL.  I figure it gives me a lot of flexibility haveing that AND the meths burner.

I like the stability and contained nature of the Trangia.

[MercuryKev]

I'd say that it really depends on how heavy you want to go, what you intend to use it for and when you plan to use it. 

If it's all year round water boiling in the UK and not too heavy I'd suggest a remote canister stove with reheat tube plus wind shield (Primus Express Spider or MSR Windpro are both good) plus with the right pans you can do some real cooking too.  I also don't have a problem with using this type of stove in a well ventilated tent, which I'd not do with a multifuel like the  Whisperlite or Dragonfly due to priming and flare up potential.

If you don't mind the weight and want to do real cooking I'd agree that a Trangia with gas burner is the way to go.  Really stable and very versatile - my cycle tour option.

[fuaran]

The MSR Dragonfly is a good stove. It is nice for proper cooking, as it is stable, and can cook fast, or simmer as needed.
Yes, it can burn petrol/diesel, but that is dirty and smelly, and can clog the stove. So I prefer to just use Coleman Fuel (white gas). Coleman Fuel can be hard to find and expensive, but it usually lasts quite a while (unless you are cooking a lot).
When you prime the stove and light it, it can go whoosh and give tall flames, so not good in a tent. And it is rather noisy on full power.
I'm not sure if a liquid fuel stove is worth the hassle of priming etc, unless you are using it in freezing temperatures, or travelling to remote places where you are unable to buy gas canisters.

I usually prefer to use my MSR Windpro instead. It is a a gas stove, but with remote canister and windshield, so nice and stable for cooking.

[mark]

My Dragonfly is a great cold weather stove, more fuel efficient than my old Whisperlite and not as prone to flare-ups when priming (the potential is still there, though). Even though it can be used with unleaded, diesel, etc., the instructions that came with my Dragonfly warn that this will shorten the life of the stove.

For fair weather cycle touring, the Trangia 27 series cooksets are great: http://www.trangia.se/english/5615.27_series_ul_ha.html. The windscreen adds lots of stability and fuel efficiency, the set is reasonably light, and you can find alcohol just about anywhere.

[Kim]

If it's all year round water boiling in the UK and not too heavy I'd suggest a remote canister stove with reheat tube

I'll stress the importance of that.  The pre-heat loop means the stove will run on liquid gas once lit, avoiding the usual low-temperature and nearly-empty-cartridge performance issues (as heat from the environment isn't needed to maintain the pressure).  Indeed, it'll run happily on pure butane at non-winter temperatures.

[LEE]

If it's all year round water boiling in the UK and not too heavy I'd suggest a remote canister stove with reheat tube

I'll stress the importance of that.  The pre-heat loop means the stove will run on liquid gas once lit, avoiding the usual low-temperature and nearly-empty-cartridge performance issues (as heat from the environment isn't needed to maintain the pressure).  Indeed, it'll run happily on pure butane at non-winter temperatures.

The solution to using gas-canisters in cold/freezing temps is to put the canister in a pan of water.  Even cold water, in a small pan, is fine, the improvement in performance is instant..  It certainly beats other techniques of sleeping with cannister or trying to keep it warm with your hands.

[rogerzilla]

Provided you keep a reasonable buffer stock of the fuel at home (it's not sold everywhere), you can't beat a Coleman stove for low temperature reliability.   Only use Coleman fuel, Primus Powerfuel, Aspen 4 or naptha panel wipe.  The 550B multifuel is the best but not imported into the UK.  The Peak 1 multifuel sometimes comes up NOS on eBay and is the same stove.  The 533 is too big for bike use.

[bumper]

If its just for drinks and water for bitb why not use solid fuel tabs. Safer than any of the other fuels.

In winter I use my mini ti esbit stove with a ti windshield, both fit inside my ti mug which all fit inside my mug with lid with the fuel tabs.  This makes a brew and boils water for a bitb meal. Super light for a couple of days out. It takes anywhere between 5-10 minutes to boil a full mug of cold water but I'm not in a hurry when out on any type of tour.

Try the highlander tabs, they're cheaper and burn better than esbit or army hexi.

[andrew_s]

The solution to using gas-canisters in cold/freezing temps is to put the canister in a pan of water.  Even cold water, in a small pan, is fine, the improvement in performance is instant..  It certainly beats other techniques of sleeping with cannister or trying to keep it warm with your hands.

That does of course presume that you have a pan of water and not a block of ice, which isn't guaranteed for a winter morning.
Also, while a pan of cold water is a lot better than nothing, you've still the problem of poor performance during the last half of the canister after you've burnt all the propane off and only have butane left. The difference between water at 2 or 3 °C and the boiling point of butane at -0.5°C isn't enough to give a good flame no matter how high you turn the valve.

If you use gas, a remote canister with preheat loop is best.
If you use the canister upright, it will pay to use the Jetboil fuel canisters, which are an iso-butane (BP -12°)/propane mix rather than normal n-butane like most other canisters.

[Kim]

If you use the canister upright, it will pay to use the Jetboil fuel canisters, which are an iso-butane (BP -12°)/propane mix rather than normal n-butane like most other canisters.

The extremely good value Wilko ones have some iso-butane in the mix, too.

Although you'll still end up using this fraction preferentially with a gas-fed stove.  If low-temperature performance is ever going to be an issue, you really want that pre-heat loop.

[rogerzilla]

You probably want to avoid kerosene/paraffin stoves; they work but they are hard to light, requiring external pre-heat (fire paste or Carex sanitising hand gel). 

If your pre-heat is insufficient, you get a big burner bowl of smoky yellow flames which never settles down and turns blue.  The fuel is smelly and, although there is virtually no risk of explosion, you wouldn't want to use one in a tent because of the all-permeating tang of burning paraffin.

Having said that, a multi-fuel stove can run very cleanly on best quality white spirit (Bartoline low odour).  Don't confuse white spirit with white gas.

Whte gas = a clean form of petrol sold for stoves, but don't put it in your car
White spirit = a light kerosene, sold as paint thinners and brush cleaner

[LEE]

Trangia with gas burner?  Best windshield in the business, and would allow you to use your existing burner...

I've just tested my new Trangia and gas burner.

It's the 27 UL.


It's bulkier than my Tristar stove and separate pans but I'm sold on it already.

I love the fact that it's bomb-proof and silent. 
My Tristar can boil water quicker than a nuclear explosion but you can't really leave it unattended for a moment.  I would never contemplate using it in the porch of a tent. It sounds like an F16 on reheat.
The Trangia seems more "relaxed".

I tried the Trangia gas burner and I'm equally impressed by that.  It allows for very fine adjustment, right down to the most gentle of simmers.  I'm not sure what the availability of Coleman type, threaded, gas cannisters is in France.  Campingaz is ubiquitous but a different fitment I think (comments please).

I doubt I'll ever be touring to the extent I need to consider a mulifuel burner so I reckon I'm kitted out for life now.

[JenM]

I'm not sure what the availability of Coleman type, threaded, gas cannisters is in France.  Campingaz is ubiquitous but a different fitment I think (comments please).

Coleman type threads are difficult to find in France - as I found out a couple of years ago.  However thread adapters are available, although I have not yet tried them.

http://www.hitchnhike.co.uk/acatalog/edelrid_valve_cartridge_adapter.html

[Veloman]

http://www.hitchnhike.co.uk/acatalog/edelrid_valve_cartridge_adapter.html

I have many stoves from Trangia (gas/liquid), MSR types and standard gas (Coleman/Gaz) and have used them around the world as part of mountaineering (high and low altitude and hot to freezing) and cycle touring.

My advice would be to simply decide on what you will compromise as all stoves involve a compromise.  if it is just for breakfast/evening hot drinks then a light simple stove is best.  If you are cooking meals then you accept a little more weight/bulk.  Also, fuel is a major consideration and that depends on location (meths is Switzerland is not easy to find but Metaxa brandy works well!)

My own preferred option for the hot drinks scenario or occasional meal is the MSR Pocket Rocket and using the adaptor from hitchnhike is really helpful when in Europe.  Simple piece of double thick aluminium foil makes a good windshield and also reflects heat.  Simplicity and light weight.

[LEE]

I'm not sure what the availability of Coleman type, threaded, gas cannisters is in France.  Campingaz is ubiquitous but a different fitment I think (comments please).

Coleman type threads are difficult to find in France - as I found out a couple of years ago.  However thread adapters are available, although I have not yet tried them.

http://www.hitchnhike.co.uk/acatalog/edelrid_valve_cartridge_adapter.html

Perfect, thanks.

I love to be able to cover lots of options.

I notice that the canisters for the camping cookers are threaded.



Is it same thread as the Coleman?  I think they are available in French DIY stores/Decathlon.

[andrew_s]

I think those stoves use this sort of canister, frequently sold with a cap over the thin spigot.

There are long thin canisters with an appropriate threaded valve, sold in hardware stores for use with blowtorches etc.

[Kim]

I think those stoves use this sort of canister, frequently sold with a cap over the thin spigot.

Adaptors are available for those too.  But you should only attempt to use one on a stove with a pre-heat loop, as the cartridge is orientation-sensitive (there's a pipe inside the cartridge leading from the valve to the edge in line with the notch in the collar, which is how those stoves ensure a vapour feed with a horizontal cartridge), and unexpected liquid feed will lead to flare-ups.  Pure butane's going to be rubbish in low temperatures anyway.  But they're *really* cheap.

[cycleman]

i going to buy a woodgas stove this year .in stock at www.foeshop.co.uk/woodgas-camping-stoves.html 

[Jon P]

I use a Dragonfly at the moment, before I had a Whisperlite.

The W was a PITA on unleaded, needing constant cleaning, but totally problem-free on Coleman fuel.  I can't even get the D to light on diesel but paraffin is problem-free. (The 2 different groups need different jets on a multi-fuel stove, but you get the idea.)  A lot of garages stock paraffin in 5l containers.

You could plan for a litre of either on a backpacking trip in cold weather boiling 2l of tea a day, porridge for breakfast and a main meal needing simmering, and it would last a week.

[rogerzilla]

if you're set up for paraffin, try decorators' white spirit.  It's much cleaner (and is just a light kerosene, like jet fuel).

[anotherdeadhero]

Much as I like Trangias, sometimes they're just not suitable.

If budget is an issue, comb outdoorsy classified forums - I picked up a secondhand WindPro, its always done me just fine.

[mrcharly-YHT]

A lot of garages stock paraffin in 5l containers.

IME (mainly using paraffin-wick lanterns for lighting), there is a world of difference between the 5l standard containers and 1l containers of 'purified lamp oil'.

The lamp oil burns with much less smoke and smell. Worth the doubling of price, IMO