She was saying on the radio this am. that all the attention she's getting from the media etc is essentially because she’s female, the implication being AFAICS that ‘fuss’ especially from some quarters is sexist, and if she was male it would not have been the same.
I'm certain she's right.She was saying on the radio this am. that all the attention she's getting from the media etc is essentially because she’s female, the implication being AFAICS that ‘fuss’ especially from some quarters is sexist, and if she was male it would not have been the same.
I think she's right.
Quite impressive indeed...
PhD in Latin?! ::-)
I'm certain she's right.She was saying on the radio this am. that all the attention she's getting from the media etc is essentially because she’s female, the implication being AFAICS that ‘fuss’ especially from some quarters is sexist, and if she was male it would not have been the same.
I think she's right.
It is obvious that Mr. Yeo also has a bright future, but after a slow start, which gave her team mates a chance to show that they, too, could answer questions, Ms. Trimble finished in her usual awe-inspiring style.The difference between the teams wasn't their captains, I thought, but their teamwork. Corpus backed their captain much more effectively than Manchester. Conversely the Mancun. captain interrupted a medical question ahead of the two medics on his team, and got it wrong. Schoolboy stuff.
She's quite tall, isn't she? [...] I can imagine her spending the rest of her life at Corpus Christi,Tall and Corpus don't really go together. It's like a real college, but at 3/4 scale.
Quite impressive indeed...
PhD in Latin?! ::-)
Is there anything wrong with studying Latin to PhD level?
Quite impressive indeed...
PhD in Latin?! ::-)
About as useful as Media Studies I'd have thought.
Is there anything wrong with studying Latin to PhD level?
Mr Bagger, you continually make the point that we are a nation that doesn't make anything anymore, and all our wealth is based on pushing electrons around.
Studying Latin is the educational equivalent of this. It is studying for studying sake. There's nothing wrong with this, of course, but should it be funded by the state, when it ultimately leads to nothing of any worth? Both in monetary terms and social terms: her DPhil will sit on a shelf never to be read again.
I also see it as a brilliant mind wasted: if she had applied herself to the sciences, or engineering, then she may have been the person to have a breakthrough in clean energy, or curing AIDS or feeding the world's population.
Disclaimer: I'm a DPhil student in Atmospheric Physics and don't have a brilliant mind, by any stretch.
Following in the University Challenge footsteps of past contestants like Clive James, Stephen Fry and Miriam Margolyes, I reckon we're going to see more of Corpus Christi Trimble.
Which is nice :)
Is there anything wrong with studying Latin to PhD level?
Mr Bagger, you continually make the point that we are a nation that doesn't make anything anymore, and all our wealth is based on pushing electrons around.
Studying Latin is the educational equivalent of this. It is studying for studying sake. There's nothing wrong with this, of course, but should it be funded by the state, when it ultimately leads to nothing of any worth? Both in monetary terms and social terms: her DPhil will sit on a shelf never to be read again.
I also see it as a brilliant mind wasted: if she had applied herself to the sciences, or engineering, then she may have been the person to have a breakthrough in clean energy, or curing AIDS or feeding the world's population.
Disclaimer: I'm a DPhil student in Atmospheric Physics and don't have a brilliant mind, by any stretch.
I confess I am currently applying for an MA in the War Studies dept at Kings so perhaps I’m prejudiced
(I confess I am currently applying for an MA in the War Studies dept at Kings so perhaps I’m prejudiced)
I confess I am currently applying for an MA in the War Studies dept at Kings so perhaps I’m prejudiced
So what is it good for?
You'll be telling me next that scientists are of greater value to society than historians.
You'll be telling me next that scientists are of greater value to society than historians.
There's a world of difference between history and Latin literature.
Books that haven't been read for hundreds of years being analysed for what purpose?
There seems to be a dangerous mindset which assumes that all education should be geared to make itself useful in some way to "business".
I confess I am currently applying for an MA in the War Studies dept at Kings so perhaps I’m prejudiced
So what is it good for?
Umm..I know people who have been on this programme and have gone on to work for various government (i.e. MOD, DERA etc) departments. Good luck Wascally Weasel, the Kings department in war studies is meant to be very good :thumbsup:
You'll be telling me next that scientists are of greater value to society than historians.
There's a world of difference between history and Latin literature.
Books that haven't been read for hundreds of years being analysed for what purpose?
I think I'd far prefer a conversation with a latin scholar than yer average scientist.
(I confess I am currently applying for an MA in the War Studies dept at Kings so perhaps I’m prejudiced)
War Studies, which presumably is a branch of history, is well worth studying. If a few more historians had been consulted in 2003, then we might not have invaded Iraq.
There seems to be a dangerous mindset which assumes that all education should be geared to make itself useful in some way to "business".
I think I'd far prefer a conversation with a latin scholar than yer average scientist.
Yeah, we're all nerdy and wear funny specs and love Star Trek, don't have girlfriends and have bad breath. ::-)
I think I'd far prefer a conversation with a latin scholar than yer average scientist.
Yeah, we're all nerdy and wear funny specs and love Star Trek, don't have girlfriends and have bad breath. ::-)
Media Studies is always used as an example in such discussions but I suggest it's every bit as 'worthy' as Classical History, Art History & Latin (amongst others).
A conversation that was solely about tv sci-fi might become so.
Bikenerd, you're a hopeless Philistine. :D
A conversation that was solely about tv sci-fi might become so.
As opposed to a conversation entirely about bicycles? ;)
I confess I am currently applying for an MA in the War Studies dept at Kings so perhaps I’m prejudiced
So what is it good for?
Umm..I know people who have been on this programme and have gone on to work for various government (i.e. MOD, DERA etc) departments. Good luck Wascally Weasel, the Kings department in war studies is meant to be very good :thumbsup:
Bikenerd, you're a hopeless Philistine
I confess I am currently applying for an MA in the War Studies dept at Kings so perhaps I’m prejudiced
So what is it good for?
(I confess I am currently applying for an MA in the War Studies dept at Kings so perhaps I’m prejudiced)
War Studies, which presumably is a branch of history, is well worth studying. If a few more historians had been consulted in 2003, then we might not have invaded Iraq.
There seems to be a dangerous mindset which assumes that all education should be geared to make itself useful in some way to "business".
Latin is very misunderstood.
Media Studies is always used as an example in such discussions but I suggest it's every bit as 'worthy' as Classical History, Art History & Latin (amongst others).
I just wished we had a broader range of questions in such show and that knowledge in science and engineering was also recognised and valued maybe?
Frenchie wrote:QuoteI just wished we had a broader range of questions in such show and that knowledge in science and engineering was also recognised and valued maybe?
I've been working on the show now for seven years. You're not the only one I've heard say this, Frenchie. Sadly, for each person like you there are five or six who say there are too many science Qs or that they find the science Qs off-putting. Unable to please everyone, we can but please ourselves: the proportion of science Qs has increased slightly on the show in recent years and is now around one in four.
(I confess I am currently applying for an MA in the War Studies dept at Kings so perhaps I’m prejudiced)
War Studies, which presumably is a branch of history, is well worth studying. If a few more historians had been consulted in 2003, then we might not have invaded Iraq.
There seems to be a dangerous mindset which assumes that all education should be geared to make itself useful in some way to "business".
Nothing dangerous Wow; don't exagerate please! As there's nothing wrong with applying *things* to Olympic performance on the side, while taking a break from big gas turbines... I just wished we had a broader range of questions in such show and that knowledge in science and engineering was also recognised and valued maybe? More math and science questions please! And the same wow (no pun) factor for the good scientists... ;D
Frenchie wrote:QuoteI just wished we had a broader range of questions in such show and that knowledge in science and engineering was also recognised and valued maybe?
I've been working on the show now for seven years. You're not the only one I've heard say this, Frenchie. Sadly, for each person like you there are five or six who say there are too many science Qs or that they find the science Qs off-putting. Unable to please everyone, we can but please ourselves: the proportion of science Qs has increased slightly on the show in recent years and is now around one in four.
Cheers. I guess it's because those are the Qs I can or could answer. Seriously though I was wondering whether it wouldn't broaden the audience/appeal; the comment you make may reveal a bias in the audience background?
Latin is very misunderstood. It is not the study of a language, like French or German. It is the definitive grammar and logic of thought that underpins most European languages - certainly English. It is Latin that is also teh accepted language of the scientific definition or the law court - because its meanings and roots are so precise. Unlike the vernacular.
[snip]
Actually, I think it is dangerous. "Business" has a greater say in academia than it ever used to, and has a strong influence on funding. It's far easier for a scientist with a 2:1 to get funding for a Masters from arms companies and GM food companies than it is for arts students with an equivalent degree, who have to rely far more heavily on Government bodies to fund their work.
This goes further than University level too: we have a couple of secondary schools in this area which call themselves "Business and Enterprise Colleges", whatever that means.
The majority PhDs and MScs are funded by the research councils. However, the science and engineering research councils receive more funding than the arts research councils hence there are more science PhDs and MScs available.
Bit of a minger tho.
She was saying on the radio this am. that all the attention she's getting from the media etc is essentially because she’s female, the implication being AFAICS that ‘fuss’ especially from some quarters is sexist, and if she was male it would not have been the same.
Bit of a minger tho.
I'm sorry, Tiger. But I'm going to have to beat you to a bloody pulp and set fire to your bicycle.
:)
Oh be still my beating heart...With a packet of tissues? ;D
a thread about intelligent women with glasses and bicycles, and now librarians.
I'm going for a short lie down in a darkened room.
As an engineer I find the maths/ science questions the ones I am most capable of answering and I struggle with the language/ literature / grammer questions. Therefore I prefer the science/ maths questions as it is always nice to be able to answer the questions.
As an aside the science/ maths question tends to be one where the answer is either known or not and can be highly specialised. A literature question may just find a scientist who has read the right book. Hence the teams consist of four people so that the teams can spread their knowledge base.
Matthew
She was saying on the radio this am. that all the attention she's getting from the media etc is essentially because she’s female, the implication being AFAICS that ‘fuss’ especially from some quarters is sexist, and if she was male it would not have been the same.
While I agree with most of the above, we should be careful about sample size. There are a good few science PhDs around my institution. I cannot think of any of them who are funded by the research councils. Industry has a vital role to play at the smaller universities who find it difficult to compete with the big boys for RC grants.
You'll be telling me next that scientists are of greater value to society than historians.
There's a world of difference between history and Latin literature.
Books that haven't been read for hundreds of years being analysed for what purpose?
What's the point in reading books at all? What's your opinion on people who study English?
Bluebottle, whom you quote, has stated that of the "good few" science PhDs at his place, he "can't think of any of them who are funded by the research councils" i.e. they are presumably funded by industry
She was saying on the radio this am. that all the attention she's getting from the media etc is essentially because she’s female, the implication being AFAICS that ‘fuss’ especially from some quarters is sexist, and if she was male it would not have been the same.
I saw that too. We need to encourage smart women, to get them out of the kitchen and into the bedroom.
You'll be telling me next that scientists are of greater value to society than historians.
There's a world of difference between history and Latin literature.
Books that haven't been read for hundreds of years being analysed for what purpose?
What's the point in reading books at all? What's your opinion on people who study English?
You'll be telling me next that scientists are of greater value to society than historians.
There's a world of difference between history and Latin literature.
Books that haven't been read for hundreds of years being analysed for what purpose?
Erm, I have to read a lot. Mainly textbooks and fairly dry academic papers.
Readingliteraturenovels and history, for me, is a hobby.
Erm, I have to read a lot. Mainly textbooks and fairly dry academic papers.
Readingliteraturenovels and history, for me, is a hobby.
Okay, okay, I shouldn't have picked history :). I don't analyse history books. For me, it fits into the "hobby" classification but you can analyse history in a way that is useful for the current time.
Still, I don't see the point in analysing Bronte, Austin, Dickens or Latin literature, which is where we started.
If history is important, why is what historical figures wrote unimportant?Are Bronte(s), Dickens and Austen historical figures? They're no more important than any novelist working today, really.
If history is important, why is what historical figures wrote unimportant?Are Bronte(s), Dickens and Austen historical figures? They're no more important than any novelist working today, really.
And, Phil, have you read anything by Einstein, James Clerk Maxwell, Niels Bohr, or even Stephen Hawking? And if not, why not? What they wrote has proved to be far more important than anything the Bronte sisters wrote.
In what way is the information contained "hugely valuable"? The information contained in the writings of the above scientists has shaped our world, for better or worse.Information? Does it have to be all about "information".
In what way is the information contained "hugely valuable"? The information contained in the writings of the above scientists has shaped our world, for better or worse.Information? Does it have to be all about "information".
Does knowledge not count? What about wisdom? :-\
In what way is the information contained "hugely valuable"? The information contained in the writings of the above scientists has shaped our world, for better or worse.Information? Does it have to be all about "information".
Does knowledge not count? What about wisdom? :-\
I'm dying to ask him his views on the visual arts and music...but I shall refrain.
I'm dying to ask him his views on the visual arts and music...but I shall refrain.
A scientist does. An artist is.
I'm dying to ask him his views on the visual arts and music...but I shall refrain.
Music I "get", from classical all the way to noisy metal. I've even read a few musicology books, and it makes sense. Visual arts: there's stuff I like, and stuff I don't like, pretty much like everyone else.
There you go, very potted.
her_welshness: have novelists shaped society, or are they just a reflection on it?
A scientist does. An artist is.
That makes as much sense the other way round. If I claim to be an artist in a very small way, it's cos of what I does - in my case making marks on canvas that other people may or may not be able to invest with some kind of meaning. The frustration is never knowing whether I've got it right.
A scientist does. An artist is.
That makes as much sense the other way round. If I claim to be an artist in a very small way, it's cos of what I does - in my case making marks on canvas that other people may or may not be able to invest with some kind of meaning. The frustration is never knowing whether I've got it right.
Thanks David. You've said in a more eloquent and less confrontational manner what I've been trying to for the past n pages.
All of the above is my pent up frustration at the lack of respect shown to science and scientists by the arts students I've met in my time. ::-)
I'd have questions from the real world. Building Regs, Recipes, Garden plants, that sort of thing.
Why does more money go into the science research councils compared to the arts and humanities: because the government has taken the decision that the U.K. p.l.c. gets more return on its investment that way.
She was saying on the radio this am. that all the attention she's getting from the media etc is essentially because she’s female, the implication being AFAICS that ‘fuss’ especially from some quarters is sexist, and if she was male it would not have been the same.
I saw that too. We need to encourage smart women, to get them out of the kitchen and into the bedroom.
You Australians!
Why does more money go into the science research councils compared to the arts and humanities: because the government has taken the decision that the U.K. p.l.c. gets more return on its investment that way.
Quite. Maybe it is justifiable that more is spent on science subjects than arts, but the figures I found indicated a level of science spending an order of magnitude 27 times that of the arts. That seems rather one-sided to me.
There's no reason why these great thinkers should be channelled purely down the "scientific" or the "artistic" corridor. I think that great minds should be encouraged to investigate anything they see fit.
Is it just that supercolliders cost more than Stradivari?
Anyone know the rules?
Apparently he was student on application, and during all the games apart from the final by which time he had graduated......
Is there anything in the rules to deal with this?
As The Liz pointed out, that's like having an investigation into whether or not a panellist on Gardener's Question time gave some wrong advice about when to plant a herbaceous border...and whether, once planted, it should have the right to stay.
The usual MO would be for the team to travel in some sort of coach with supporters, organised by the Union, they should have noticed that one of the team could not be contacted via the internal mail. I suppose part of the problem is that they will have had his mobile number and E-mail, neither of which are geographical. So when they contacted him to make arrangements they would have had no indication that he was no longer at the University. They should take this opportunity to restrict the show to undergraduates.
Damon.
+1 See if you can find a copy of Baugh & Cable. An excellent book on the history of the English language.Latin is very misunderstood. It is not the study of a language, like French or German. It is the definitive grammar and logic of thought that underpins most European languages - certainly English. It is Latin that is also teh accepted language of the scientific definition or the law court - because its meanings and roots are so precise. Unlike the vernacular.
[snip]
Latin is no more precise than any other language. Legal and scientific terms in Latin are just names, the concepts have no connection with Latin itself. And Latin is not the definitive grammar and logic of thought that underpins most European languages, certainly not English. English is a Germanic language, although a large part of its vocabulary has Latin origins via French.
Oh be still my beating heart...You are John Betjeman* AICMFP. :)
a thread about intelligent women with glasses and bicycles, and now librarians.
I'm going for a short lie down in a darkened room.
Oh be still my beating heart...You are John Betjeman* AICMFP. :)
a thread about intelligent women with glasses and bicycles, and now librarians.
I'm going for a short lie down in a darkened room.
*Myfanwy. Verses 2 & 3 :)
Did Kay answer any questions, or was he just a makeweight in the Trimble All Stars?
Did Kay answer any questions, or was he just a makeweight in the Trimble All Stars?Apparently
Mr Kay was an important factor in the showdown, answering two "starters for 10" at a crucial point when his team was trailing.
Did Kay answer any questions, or was he just a makeweight in the Trimble All Stars?
You could try reading the article. :P
(yes).
It's all over for Trimble.
BBC NEWS | Entertainment | University quiz team disqualified (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7919830.stm)
No final year students can be part of a UC team, it's official.
It's all over for Trimble.
BBC NEWS | Entertainment | University quiz team disqualified (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7919830.stm)
No final year students can be part of a UC team, it's official.
That, I think, is quite hard to enforce. PhD students quite frequently fail to complete their projects, or take unexpected gap years. Their funding can be dependent on annually awarded grants, so if funds dry up part way through their course, they will have a problem.
It's all over for Trimble.
BBC NEWS | Entertainment | University quiz team disqualified (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7919830.stm)
No final year students can be part of a UC team, it's official.
That, I think, is quite hard to enforce. PhD students quite frequently fail to complete their projects, or take unexpected gap years. Their funding can be dependent on annually awarded grants, so if funds dry up part way through their course, they will have a problem.
A few years back, I think a team of pub quiz champions all enrolled at the Open University, with the express intention of winning university challenge. I don't know how they did.
The show has, since its revival in 1994, featured a number of very high-standard teams with postgraduate and mature students, who might be thought of as having the advantage of a greater breadth of general knowledge.[2] The Open University (OU) won the 1999 series with a team whose age averaged 46. Three of the four team members were former Brain of Britain and Mastermind finalists or otherwise professional quiz show contestants who had joined the OU specifically in order to appear on the show. In the quarter-final they beat a slightly younger team from part-time and mature student specialist Birkbeck, University of London, by only one question.
Host Jeremy Paxman openly criticised the OU team as not being in the spirit of the competition.[3] Paxman also apologised privately for this when challenged.[
It's all over for Trimble.
BBC NEWS | Entertainment | University quiz team disqualified (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7919830.stm)
No final year students can be part of a UC team, it's official.
That, I think, is quite hard to enforce. PhD students quite frequently fail to complete their projects, or take unexpected gap years. Their funding can be dependent on annually awarded grants, so if funds dry up part way through their course, they will have a problem.
Really?! I have never seen nor experienced this Wow to be very honest. Never.
It's all over for Trimble.
BBC NEWS | Entertainment | University quiz team disqualified (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7919830.stm)
No final year students can be part of a UC team, it's official.
That, I think, is quite hard to enforce. PhD students quite frequently fail to complete their projects, or take unexpected gap years. Their funding can be dependent on annually awarded grants, so if funds dry up part way through their course, they will have a problem.
Really?! I have never seen nor experienced this Wow to be very honest. Never. So it is not as generalised as you make it. In the current university system it is hard to justify signing someone up for a PhD without funding lined up upfront; unless of course the person is what we call "self funded" maybe (even so if it is rare that they get their award annually, at least in science, engineering or business I would say).
Previous University Challenge winners appear to break rules |
Media |
guardian.co.uk
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/mar/03/university-challenge-winners-break-rules)
... Guardian, which owns the Observer, implies that Corpus Christi...
Given that the programme isn't live, I suppose he could interrupt Paxman and stand his ground
It's all over for Trimble.
BBC NEWS | Entertainment | University quiz team disqualified (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7919830.stm)
No final year students can be part of a UC team, it's official.
That, I think, is quite hard to enforce. PhD students quite frequently fail to complete their projects, or take unexpected gap years. Their funding can be dependent on annually awarded grants, so if funds dry up part way through their course, they will have a problem.
Really?! I have never seen nor experienced this Wow to be very honest. Never. So it is not as generalised as you make it. In the current university system it is hard to justify signing someone up for a PhD without funding lined up upfront; unless of course the person is what we call "self funded" maybe (even so if it is rare that they get their award annually, at least in science, engineering or business I would say).
My son has been part-funded (tuition fees paid and guaranteed so for 3 years) but nothing for living / rent. Half-way through his first year, he's applied for further funding for year 2 and beyond. He's been encouraged by staff who have taken the attitude that "where there's a will, there's a way" with PhDs. He's been led to expect some sort of teaching opportunities from his second year onwards, but that's not guaranteed, and I'm his fall-back position if this funding doesn't materialise. So in his case, and, I'm sure, with some of his colleagues, much of it is done on a wing and a prayer.