Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Freewheeling => Racing => Topic started by: andyoxon on 25 July, 2021, 08:49:01 am

Title: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: andyoxon on 25 July, 2021, 08:49:01 am
Women's road race.  Quite a breakaway.  No radio comms, makes it interesting.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: quixoticgeek on 25 July, 2021, 09:38:31 am
Women's road race.  Quite a breakaway.  No radio comms, makes it interesting.

Absolutely fucking amazing ride.

Well done Anna Kiesenhofer, that was amazing!

J
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: paddyirish on 25 July, 2021, 09:54:53 am
What an amazing ride by Anna Kiesenhofer. She had the guts to go from the gun and again to drop the breakaway companions and just enough left in the tank at the end.  If it had been 1-2km longer, she would have been caught, but it wasn't and she judged it perfectly. Chapeau.

No race radios made for far more interesting racing, maybe peleton thought they were racing for gold. Surely team members (especially Dutch) should have been put at points on the course with chalkboards showing time gaps...
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: paddyirish on 25 July, 2021, 09:57:31 am
Really enjoyed the men's race too- a real heavyweight slugfest where the smartest rider played his cards at exactly the right times.

The two road races show the beauty of cycling - there are so many ways to win.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: quixoticgeek on 25 July, 2021, 10:03:40 am
What an amazing ride by Anna Kiesenhofer. She had the guts to go from the gun and again to drop the breakaway companions and just enough left in the tank at the end.  If it had been 1-2km longer, she would have been caught, but it wasn't and she judged it perfectly. Chapeau.

No race radios made for far more interesting racing, maybe peleton thought they were racing for gold. Surely team members (especially Dutch) should have been put at points on the course with chalkboards showing time gaps...

Van de Bregen crossed the line thinking she had got Gold. They had entirely lost count of how many riders in the break.

It's gonna be an interesting conversation between the Dutch team when the cameras are gone.

But, I wanna know who's going to be the first ride in the next women's pro race to turn to Anna and ask "How many riders in the breakaway?"

I really feel for Van Vlueten. She really thought she had crossed the line in first.

J
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: paddyirish on 25 July, 2021, 10:19:01 am
Don't blame Dutch riders, but management needed to position people on the course with chalkboards. They missed something there. Sad for Van Vleuten as well, seems really likeable and rode the van Aert type race (strongest rider,  demonstrated on multiple moves) but "only" got a silver. In late 30s, She'll be missing the RR on her palmares.

Has she got anything left for the TT. Van der Breggen didn't really fire a shot there, will she have more in reserve , or did she peak at the Giro ?
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: paddyirish on 25 July, 2021, 10:27:38 am
Seeing interviews, it seems whole of silver medal group thought they were racing for gold. Big lesson is that you shouldn't rely on race officials for race situation.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: quixoticgeek on 25 July, 2021, 10:38:21 am
Don't blame Dutch riders, but management needed to position people on the course with chalkboards. They missed something there. Sad for Van Vleuten as well, seems really likeable and rode the van Aert type race (strongest rider,  demonstrated on multiple moves) but "only" got a silver. In late 30s, She'll be missing the RR on her palmares.

Has she got anything left for the TT. Van der Breggen didn't really fire a shot there, will she have more in reserve , or did she peak at the Giro ?

Given covid, I don't think they had the personnel, or the permission for such things.

J
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: paddyirish on 25 July, 2021, 10:40:27 am
Disagree, who was handing them their food and water? Race position could be part of that.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Salvatore on 25 July, 2021, 11:39:23 am
I'm feeling a bit sorry for Anna Kieselhofer. All the discussion (here, twitter, cyclingnews.com) seems to be about the Dutch excuses for being robbed of a gold medal.

Anna Kieselhofer won fair and square with an amazing ride.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: quixoticgeek on 25 July, 2021, 11:41:26 am
I'm feeling a bit sorry for Anna Kieselhofer. All the discussion (here, twitter, cyclingnews.com) seems to be about the Dutch excuses for being robbed of a gold medal.

Anna Kieselhofer won fair and square with an amazing ride.

I'm in awe of her ride (and have tweeted about this a few times too). She did a 137 solo TT, when everyone else turned up for a road race. It's a truly impressive ride.

J
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: cygnet on 25 July, 2021, 11:52:59 am
I noticed that the "team" cars seemed to operate more as neutral service, for the breakaway riders. Odd.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: farfetched on 25 July, 2021, 12:00:58 pm
 I read somewhere that Anna rode with Lotto in Belgium back in 2017 but didn't like professional cycling and riding in a peloton. Problem solved ... Do it solo. Obviously a talented lady... Underestimated by the rest.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: giropaul on 25 July, 2021, 12:07:36 pm
No one can take away from the winner’s ride.

It does seem odd that no one in the next group on the road knew she was away. Van Vleuten is not happy with the Netherlands manager.

I didn’t spot any motos with chalk boards. I also suspect that the lead car wasn’t where it should have been.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: sizbut on 25 July, 2021, 12:20:05 pm
As Austria's national time-trial champion I assume Anna is due to ride again in the TT event. Well she has a solid excuse for that event (unlike the Dutch for today's). Worst was the 4 Dutch riders standing just a few feet from her after the finish and not one offering any congratulations. Their coaches were there and surely knew the real result.

Still, splendid ride. When the commentators mentioned her TT title with 30k to go it suddenly became very possible and very exciting.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: paddyirish on 25 July, 2021, 12:24:55 pm
Good point about lack of congratulations,  was not a good look. I think Cecilie Uttrup Ludwig was the only one I saw congratulate Kiesenhofer. Not surpriaed that Uttrup Ludwig did, as she is a good egg, but disppointed in all the others.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: drossall on 25 July, 2021, 12:41:16 pm
You could see in the race tactics that the group hadn't realised. The commentators mentioned it as a possibility, but I was surprised that they didn't pick up on it more. I had to go out just after the finish, so haven't seen the interviews yet. Good race though. How about getting rid of radios again everywhere? It comes up from time to time. They were accused of ruining the racing when they first came in of course.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Ivo on 25 July, 2021, 01:02:01 pm
Don't blame Dutch riders, but management needed to position people on the course with chalkboards. They missed something there. Sad for Van Vleuten as well, seems really likeable and rode the van Aert type race (strongest rider,  demonstrated on multiple moves) but "only" got a silver. In late 30s, She'll be missing the RR on her palmares.

Has she got anything left for the TT. Van der Breggen didn't really fire a shot there, will she have more in reserve , or did she peak at the Giro ?

Given covid, I don't think they had the personnel, or the permission for such things.

J

They bloody well had. Of yesterday's 5 male riders, 3 won't be riding at the Olympic's anymore. That's already 3 people with athlete's accreditations. Then an unknown amount of staff of the men's team with nothing at hand today. An absolute organisational blunder.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Salvatore on 25 July, 2021, 01:23:07 pm
It does seem odd that no one in the next group on the road knew she was away.
I've seen quotes from Cecilie Uttrup Ludwig , Elisa Longo Borghini, Lotte Kopecky and Marianne Vos saying they knew there was still someone up the road and they were riding for silver.

Even odder that some knew and some didn't.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: sizbut on 25 July, 2021, 01:39:26 pm
I noticed that the "team" cars seemed to operate more as neutral service, for the breakaway riders. Odd.

With only one car for each country, it's in everyone's interest to be generous with handing out bottles to any rider who asks, hoping that other cars are doing the same for your riders.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: quixoticgeek on 25 July, 2021, 02:06:31 pm
They bloody well had. Of yesterday's 5 male riders, 3 won't be riding at the Olympic's anymore. That's already 3 people with athlete's accreditations. Then an unknown amount of staff of the men's team with nothing at hand today. An absolute organisational blunder.

I've a suspicion that there's going to be* a very angry meeting back at the team village/camp/office/what ever it's called at the olympics.

Lots of people pointing at lots of people about who fucked up what.

J

*Given the time elapsed, probably has been.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Karla on 25 July, 2021, 04:00:33 pm
Oops!

I was busy sleeping off a wedding hangover this morning but it sounds like a great race - the Olympic road cycling has really delivered the goods this year.  Congratulations to the winner!
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: sizbut on 25 July, 2021, 04:43:49 pm
Just rewatched the start and the finish. Anna was sitting off the back of the peleton for the 10k neutral section, then moved through and attacked right from the flag drop. Clearly she had a plan and brilliantly it worked.

Given her current research subject, it's as likely a lot of teams may be seeking her as a 'heat' coach rather than rider as she clearly mastered that. Chris Boardman kept worrying in his commentary about how little she appeared to be drinking.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Karla on 26 July, 2021, 08:30:33 am
Pidders has added to the British tally  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: drgannet on 26 July, 2021, 11:33:07 am
That was a ridiculously hard course! But what fantastic riding and bike handling from Pidcock.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Salvatore on 26 July, 2021, 12:08:46 pm
More Dutch finger-pointing (https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mathieu-van-der-poel-blames-removal-of-plank-for-tokyo-olympics-mountain-bike-crash/)
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Peter on 26 July, 2021, 12:16:00 pm
Never did like him disrespecting the TdeF for using it as training before abandoning.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: DuncanM on 26 July, 2021, 12:31:50 pm
Never did like him disrespecting the TdeF for using it as training before abandoning.
I'm not really a fan of his, but I do think that's unfair. Most riders doing their first grand tour struggle to complete it, and he was originally not supposed to be riding the Tour this year at all. He raced the first 9 days and then pulled out - to attempt to finish could have put him in a giant hole for vey little reward, and he's been talking about building towards Tokyo for at least 2 years.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: paddyirish on 26 July, 2021, 01:13:04 pm
Never did like him disrespecting the TdeF for using it as training before abandoning.
I'm not really a fan of his, but I do think that's unfair. Most riders doing their first grand tour struggle to complete it, and he was originally not supposed to be riding the Tour this year at all. He raced the first 9 days and then pulled out - to attempt to finish could have put him in a giant hole for vey little reward, and he's been talking about building towards Tokyo for at least 2 years.

Agree - it is a team decision to ride him for n days.  Many teams think it is worth it, and it paid off huge dividends for Alpecin.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Peter on 26 July, 2021, 02:25:05 pm
Dear Both,

I don't really have a strong view on it; I suppose it's just the system I don't like.  I realise it will have been a team decision and that Mathieu will be under contract and is not "his own man".  And, obviously, he did a great job as far as the team's sponsors go, so he is being a good pro.  It could be that I don't like the idea of it being possible for a rider to wear the jersey when it's already known that he has no intention of finishing the ride.  That might enable him to put more effort into the first few days, thereby depriving someone else of the honour.  What I can't deny is that Mathieu is a terrific rider - though if the Olympic mountain bike race is any guide he can be a bit of a plank - or non-plank!
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: TimC on 26 July, 2021, 03:36:22 pm
No one can take away from the winner’s ride.

It does seem odd that no one in the next group on the road knew she was away. Van Vleuten is not happy with the Netherlands manager.

I didn’t spot any motos with chalk boards. I also suspect that the lead car wasn’t where it should have been.

There were plenty, though they were using whiteboards. There is some discussion about what info they conveyed, though it would appear to have been to UCI specs (which many World Tour riders may not know, having relied on radios for so long).
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Mr Larrington on 26 July, 2021, 04:17:19 pm
Never did like him disrespecting the TdeF for using it as training before abandoning.

Like Cav* did before Rio :demon:

* and Cancellera
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Peter on 26 July, 2021, 04:39:48 pm
Yes - I just don't like it.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Salvatore on 26 July, 2021, 07:50:22 pm
The latest Dutch disaster is that during practice a BMX rider collided with an official and broke his knee.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: paddyirish on 27 July, 2021, 12:40:08 pm
Anna van der Breggen pulled off he bike by an official today.  "not aware she was an ITT participant".  Dutch must have done something seriously bad in a previous life :-)
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Peter on 28 July, 2021, 02:53:35 pm
What has been happening to the Dutch cyclists is mostly farce (though congratulations to Van Vleuten).  This Afghan woman's last place has triumph and tragedy and Olympics writ large.  What a mad world we live in.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57994322 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57994322)
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: DuncanM on 28 July, 2021, 03:03:51 pm
Edit - Off topic - now included in the other Olympic thread.
And the British rowers almost managed to ram the Italians:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57993952
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Peter on 28 July, 2021, 03:08:25 pm
What - in the cycling?
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: DuncanM on 28 July, 2021, 03:33:24 pm
What - in the cycling?
Good point - wrong Olympic thread.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Peter on 28 July, 2021, 05:05:27 pm
 ;)
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Beardy on 30 July, 2021, 10:37:46 am
BMX Gold and Sliver in the Women’s and Men’s competitions respectively.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: giropaul on 30 July, 2021, 10:58:30 am
BMX Gold and Sliver in the Women’s and Men’s competitions respectively.

After British Cycling removed the funding from the female gold winner! She had to crowd-fund £50,000 to get to Tokyo.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: paddyirish on 30 July, 2021, 12:02:13 pm
Great result from BMX.  But the funding question just shows all that is wrong with UK sport.  Gave loads to rowing then got rid of the coach who had brought them all the success, with predictable results.  Hopefully this will be a slap in the face to the medals are everything approach and rebalance in favour of grass-roots funding aimed at participation.  Still think that will breed success by providing a greater base to the pyramid, with all the additional physical and mental health benefits to society at large.

Also the men's gold medal winner was the Dutch Athlete mentioned upthread who was knocked over by the idiot official - he had a small fracture in his kneecap as a result - glad to see that it didn't affect his end result
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: rogerzilla on 01 August, 2021, 10:58:31 am
Watch the women's BMX freestyle final.  I've realised I can't really ride a bike and nor, I suspect, can you.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: spesh on 01 August, 2021, 04:16:37 pm
Watch the women's BMX freestyle final.  I've realised I can't really ride a bike and nor, I suspect, can you.

I was watching the re-run of both finals and my jaw was somewhere around floor level. :o

Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: slope on 01 August, 2021, 04:33:09 pm
Watch the women's BMX freestyle final.  I've realised I can't really ride a bike and nor, I suspect, can you.

I watched as you commanded. Thanks. WOW! And how gracious was Hannah Roberts :thumbsup:

Had to gradually come down afterwards and watch some slow cycling (episode 3 The Cotswolds) with Jack Thurston and Jenny Graham

https://app.globalcyclingnetwork.com/yzYVvyKJpeoyzf1S6
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Peter on 01 August, 2021, 09:38:08 pm
When you see all those incredible tricks, it does make you wonder just how many people were paralyzed trying them in the first place.  Humans can be amazing!
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: rogerzilla on 02 August, 2021, 11:07:07 am
The forward flip made me gasp more than the 360 backflip.  I have no idea how you set about doing something like that for the first time.  Apparently practice tracks have a softer surface, but you could still break your neck easily.  I guess they wear body armour in practice, as well.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 02 August, 2021, 11:25:08 am
Folk generally start doing big new tricks with lake jumping and foam-filled pits. Once you start reliably going in wheels first, you progress to hard surfaces.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Tom B on 02 August, 2021, 11:43:28 am
Trampolining also (from TG article):

The mother of Olympic gold medalist Charlotte Worthington has said her backflips on trampolines when she was a toddler may have helped her clinch the top spot on the podium in Tokyo.

… “From age four-and-a-half, I took her to trampolining at Trafford trampoline club, and she did that a couple of nights a week, doing all the upside down front-flip stuff and I think it all helped with the balance,” she added.
When Worthington started secondary education at Chorlton high school, she would build ramps on the road with all the neighbours’ children kids joining in on their scooters and skateboards.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Karla on 02 August, 2021, 01:16:06 pm
Okay it's time to own up guys, which Aussie mechanic overtorqued their stem bolts?
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: DuncanM on 02 August, 2021, 02:10:24 pm
UCI seem to have OKed Denmark to break UCI rules?
https://twitter.com/Chris_Boardman/status/1422179006137384967
Maybe they forgot about that bit of the rule.
Explanation here: https://twitter.com/Doctor_Hutch/status/1422142259919790083
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: spesh on 02 August, 2021, 02:38:22 pm
Okay it's time to own up guys, which Aussie mechanic overtorqued their stem bolts?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: rr on 02 August, 2021, 03:34:25 pm
Okay it's time to own up guys, which Aussie mechanic overtorqued their stem bolts?

Looking at the assembly manual (https://storage.googleapis.com/argon18craft/files/Assembly-Guides/2021/Electron_Pro_Assembly_Guide_TKO_EN_2021_R6.1.pdf) and the photo of the break that looks likely.
(https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/wBmFV9mQuXZvRrSEaVFnmj-970-80.png.webp)
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Peter on 02 August, 2021, 03:40:44 pm
Trampolining also (from TG article):

The mother of Olympic gold medalist Charlotte Worthington has said her backflips on trampolines when she was a toddler may have helped her clinch the top spot on the podium in Tokyo.

… “From age four-and-a-half, I took her to trampolining at Trafford trampoline club, and she did that a couple of nights a week, doing all the upside down front-flip stuff and I think it all helped with the balance,” she added.
When Worthington started secondary education at Chorlton high school, she would build ramps on the road with all the neighbours’ children kids joining in on their scooters and skateboards.

Thanks for that - and for the previous reply from LWAB.  It becomes slightly less unbelievable - but only slightly!
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: paddyirish on 02 August, 2021, 04:26:46 pm
Okay it's time to own up guys, which Aussie mechanic overtorqued their stem bolts?

(click to show/hide)
Brilliant - thank you for that!   That was one of the all time classics. For those who haven't seen it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgrX7uOZqHI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgrX7uOZqHI), it is so worth a few minutes of your time.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: robgul on 02 August, 2021, 04:44:15 pm
Okay it's time to own up guys, which Aussie mechanic overtorqued their stem bolts?

Looking at the assembly manual (https://storage.googleapis.com/argon18craft/files/Assembly-Guides/2021/Electron_Pro_Assembly_Guide_TKO_EN_2021_R6.1.pdf) and the photo of the break that looks likely.
(https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/wBmFV9mQuXZvRrSEaVFnmj-970-80.png.webp)

Some of the commentary did suggest that the bar assembly may have been 3D printed? . . . from non-cycling stuff I've  had made (admittedly made by my brother) the process isn't infallible.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: spesh on 02 August, 2021, 04:48:19 pm
Okay it's time to own up guys, which Aussie mechanic overtorqued their stem bolts?

Looking at the assembly manual (https://storage.googleapis.com/argon18craft/files/Assembly-Guides/2021/Electron_Pro_Assembly_Guide_TKO_EN_2021_R6.1.pdf) and the photo of the break that looks likely.
(https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/wBmFV9mQuXZvRrSEaVFnmj-970-80.png.webp)

Reports suggest it's not an Argon 18 cockpit set which failed, but one supplied by Bastion:

Quote
At first, it appeared as though the cockpit in question was the stock-standard carbon base bar sold by Argon 18 with the Electron Pro track bike. However, on further inspection, it appears the cockpit is in fact the Bastion Base Bar, 3D printed out of titanium to closely mimic the same design.

The Base Bar has been removed from the Bastion website in an action that, according to reports by Cycling Weekly (https://www.cyclingweekly.com/products/snapped-australian-handlebar-was-produced-by-bastion-and-has-been-removed-from-website-source-claims), was done after Porter's crash at the Izu Velodrome.

Bastion is a frame builder and manufacturer of 3D printed titanium parts, commonly using the technology for the lugs on its frames. However, in late 2019, the company announced a partnership with Cycling Australia, tasked with providing custom-moulded handlebars and aero extensions for the team's track bikes.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/australias-snapped-handlebar-3d-printed-since-removed-from-sale-reports-claim/
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: rr on 02 August, 2021, 05:03:42 pm
The photos of the team bikes show a variety of angles on the bars, so they are probably right, over-tightening still looks like a suspect.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: JonBuoy on 02 August, 2021, 05:17:07 pm
A timely article on the company and the technology:  https://cyclingtips.com/2021/08/how-to-3d-print-titanium-with-bastion-cycles/
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: andyoxon on 02 August, 2021, 05:43:39 pm
Danish TP riders seem to have sparked 'medical tape gate'...

https://twitter.com/roadcc/status/1422176504784490497
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Karla on 02 August, 2021, 07:05:58 pm
In other news, the Danes qualify fastest after buying the services of Dan 'I can win world cups on the back of credit card debt and huge brains' Bigham, after the Brits chucked him off the team, asked him to give his consultancy for free and wouldnt pay when he declined that offer.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Peter on 02 August, 2021, 07:26:35 pm
Looks like he took his "marginal gains" tape with him - and who could blame him?
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Karla on 02 August, 2021, 07:31:06 pm
Amusingly it's basically going back to what people were doing before tripsocks were invented: back in the bad old days of 2014 you'd buy trip strips to stick to your shins before each event.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: rogerzilla on 02 August, 2021, 08:12:12 pm
Okay it's time to own up guys, which Aussie mechanic overtorqued their stem bolts?
Has anyone seen LWaB recently?  ;D
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Jakob on 02 August, 2021, 08:46:16 pm
Folk generally start doing big new tricks with lake jumping and foam-filled pits. Once you start reliably going in wheels first, you progress to hard surfaces.

Virtually no one does lake jumps. You don't want to use your regular bike for that, so usually it's an old beater with crappy parts.
Typical progression is foampits/airbags, then resi, then wood and then concrete (if needed).
This is a fairly good example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKgDN7TEamw

BXM was a bit of a joke, though. The mens field contained maybe 2 of the top 20, (Logan, Dhers), the scoring really weird.
Casing anything was severely punished (Except in Charlotte's case, but doing a first, you get away with it). Basically it got ruined once UCI got their grubby little hands on it. Matt Hoffman was involved early on, but quickly got sidelined by the suits.

A much better series is the Vans Pro CuP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBulSlB5Qjc
Creativity and risk is rewarded, rather than penalized.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Legs on 03 August, 2021, 08:54:44 am
Denmark ;D :facepalm:
That should have DQ written all over it...
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Jaded on 03 August, 2021, 09:03:01 am
What a shame for Ed Clancy and the pursuit team.

Extraordinary crash.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: woollypigs on 03 August, 2021, 09:07:25 am
Danish news : Danish rider crashes.

Now't about him not looking where is going, yet his two team mates did.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: bobb on 03 August, 2021, 09:14:30 am
Danish news : Danish rider crashes.

Now't about him not looking where is going, yet his two team mates did.

He was being a right twat about it afterwards too!
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: woollypigs on 03 August, 2021, 09:18:48 am
That he was
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: TimC on 03 August, 2021, 10:04:43 am
The UCI have tweeted that Denmark will be in the final, despite recklessly riding into GB's third rider and verbally assaulting him. A lot of 'English diving' comments on Twitter. The UCI seem to have abandoned any attempt at integrity in these Games.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 03 August, 2021, 10:09:22 am
A pursuit is won when you catch the other team. That is pretty clear. The only question is whether GB can get through to the next round.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: TimC on 03 August, 2021, 10:11:54 am
A pursuit is won when you catch the other team. That is pretty clear. The only question is whether GB can get through to the next round.

There is no next round. There is the final. GB don't deserve to be in the final - they did finish the race, with the slowest time of any team. Denmark don't deserve to be in the final - 'catching' the other team doesn not mean running them off the track! Italy should be given the Gold, and the other final should be for the Silver and Bronze.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 03 August, 2021, 10:24:54 am
 No. The round is won when the opponent is caught. GB was definitely caught. Denmark go through to the gold/ silver final round.

The fastest two teams of everybody else, including caught teams, race for bronze/ fourth place. Do GB deserve to be in that final round?
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Beardy on 03 August, 2021, 10:41:52 am
In the strictest sense of the rules, Denmark caught GB, but I do think that there should be some consequence to total disregard for your competitor. It is just not acceptable to ride them of the track like that.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: TimC on 03 August, 2021, 10:59:37 am
No. The round is won when the opponent is caught. GB was definitely caught. Denmark go through to the gold/ silver final round.

The fastest two teams of everybody else, including caught teams, race for bronze/ fourth place. Do GB deserve to be in that final round?

Ah. So running your competitor off the track by riding without looking where you're going is just fine. Gotcha.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Jaded on 03 August, 2021, 11:09:19 am
It is a surprising concept that if you catch your opponents on the track, they might be in your way when you do...
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Croft on 03 August, 2021, 11:39:44 am
It's the Danish rider's anger that I don't understand. Is it possible that immediately following the crash he thought he crashed into GB's fourth man, and was remonstrating because the fourth should have been high on the banking and not the racing line?
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Karla on 03 August, 2021, 01:12:55 pm
It's the Danish rider's anger that I don't understand. Is it possible that immediately following the crash he thought he crashed into GB's fourth man, and was remonstrating because the fourth should have been high on the banking and not the racing line?

That's what Cyclingnews are saying.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: DuncanM on 03 August, 2021, 03:01:26 pm
No. The round is won when the opponent is caught. GB was definitely caught. Denmark go through to the gold/ silver final round.

The fastest two teams of everybody else, including caught teams, race for bronze/ fourth place. Do GB deserve to be in that final round?
Well, the reason why GB were in the semi-final is that they were the 4th fastest in qualifying. So it seems reasonable that they go into the 3rd place ride-off.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: andyoxon on 03 August, 2021, 03:11:07 pm
Danes should be DQ'd.  Rider wasn't looking, and wiped out GBs 3rd rider.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 03 August, 2021, 03:30:04 pm
Sure, the Dane crashed out Tanfield but that was after the race was over. Unlike many folk (who haven’t raced bikes), I am a bit less concerned about crashes.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Peter on 03 August, 2021, 03:35:46 pm
There seem to have been clothing violations for which the UCI (a notoriously fickle body) could have disqualified the Danes in earlier rounds but to want to disqualify them for running into the back of a team that was actually a lap behind (and nowhere near being medal-contenders, I think) seems a bit peevish and un-British.  The Danish rider's rant at the innocent victim was of course un-British, what with him being Danish - and wrong.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Karla on 03 August, 2021, 03:41:38 pm
It seems Tanfield was dragged in at the last moment after Clancy's DNS, and he was doing long rides on the road only a couple of days ago.  That explains his performance on the day but it does seem weird that, given Clancy's back problem was not a new issue, the reserve rider wasn't on a more specific track training regime.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: andyoxon on 03 August, 2021, 03:43:42 pm
Was the race over at the point the two collided, or before that?
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 03 August, 2021, 03:47:39 pm
When the catching team gets within 1m of the team being caught. A little before impact.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: andyoxon on 03 August, 2021, 03:59:38 pm
When the catching team gets within 1m of the team being caught. A little before impact.

OK, didn't realise it was within 1m; thought they had to draw level / overtake (as opposed to slamming into the back). 
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Croft on 03 August, 2021, 04:03:29 pm
Presumably the "within 1m" is precisely to avoid the risk of collision or the confusion should it happen. Can't see a crash after that would be in itself a reason to DQ, but I do wonder about the conduct of the Danish rider. Shouting at the fallen rider and storming off seems "unbecoming".
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Peter on 03 August, 2021, 04:10:53 pm
Definitely not British!
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: drossall on 03 August, 2021, 05:17:33 pm
Brilliant comment on Twitter about whether Tanfield should have been using lights and hi-vis ;D
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: woollypigs on 03 August, 2021, 06:11:31 pm
Definitely not British!

you mean cricket, not cricket that for sure :)
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Mr Larrington on 03 August, 2021, 06:14:18 pm
Definitely not British!

I expect they cheer when they win and practice beforehand too ;)
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: spesh on 03 August, 2021, 06:42:52 pm
Quote
We've got stores in Denmark, you know.
https://twitter.com/Specsavers/status/1422476721614434311
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Nick H. on 03 August, 2021, 06:56:53 pm
It would be daft to DQ the Danes. It would wreck the event - the final should be between the two fastest teams, and GB were very slow. Nobody was hurt, and the angry Dane has punished himself by looking like a twat in front of the whole world. It was a tricky decision for the officials, and I think they got it right. If the GB rider had been injured and put out of the rest of the games, that would be an entirely different matter.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Peter on 03 August, 2021, 07:12:25 pm
Definitely not British!

I expect they cheer when they win and practice beforehand too ;)

Absolutely!  Complete lack of moral fibre.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Beardy on 03 August, 2021, 08:00:30 pm
I think that the rider in question should be banned from the final for his recklessness but the rest of the team should be allowed to compete in the final with their 5th man. For there to be no consequence would be wrong, but DQing the team would also be inappropriate.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: TimC on 03 August, 2021, 08:13:43 pm
Sure, the Dane crashed out Tanfield but that was after the race was over. Unlike many folk (who haven’t raced bikes), I am a bit less concerned about crashes.

Lovely use of the technicality. Madsen was a jerk for riding into Tanfield, and was even more of a jerk for behaving like a twat afterwards. He should be sanctioned. I have no problem with the rest of the team (with their 5th man) continuing in the competition nor would I have a problem with GB contesting the wooden spoon, though if the Danes get to ride for the Gold, GB have qualified to ride for the Bronze even if they have no hope without Clancy.

However, the UCI have failed on several levels here. The GB team should have been flagged when Tanfield went off the back to warn both GB and Denmark that the team was split. There should also have been a noise signal as Denmark approached Tanfield that the Danes had caught GB and the race was over - though that does not absolve Madsen of responsibility for looking where he's going. The UCI also failed to appropriately sanction Denmark for their (very clever) use of tape and aero undershirts in earlier rounds. The fact that Denmark had incorrectly received approval for those measures just makes the UCI look even more stupid.

But, hey, I don't race. So I can't possibly have any sense of the rules, or what's right and wrong.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Nick H. on 03 August, 2021, 08:53:44 pm
However, the UCI have failed on several levels here. The GB team should have been flagged when Tanfield went off the back to warn both GB and Denmark that the team was split. There should also have been a noise signal as Denmark approached Tanfield that the Danes had caught GB and the race was over

Are those rules? Not seen anyone else mention them. Very interesting.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Karla on 03 August, 2021, 08:56:24 pm
I'm struggling to find the Huub aero undervest on their website.  Has the "Banned by the UCI" publicity worked that well already?  :o ;D
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: cygnet on 03 August, 2021, 09:28:20 pm
Sure, the Dane crashed out Tanfield but that was after the race was over. Unlike many folk (who haven’t raced bikes), I am a bit less concerned about crashes.

I think one of the questions that concerned the Comms, (in this shortened Olympic programme of racing) is: the Danes race had finished. GBs race hadn't. (They were still racing a time)

The current rules are a clash between pursuit and TT, and have failed to acknowledge the potential for what happened.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: TimC on 04 August, 2021, 07:45:09 am
However, the UCI have failed on several levels here. The GB team should have been flagged when Tanfield went off the back to warn both GB and Denmark that the team was split. There should also have been a noise signal as Denmark approached Tanfield that the Danes had caught GB and the race was over

Are those rules? Not seen anyone else mention them. Very interesting.

https://www.uci.org/docs/default-source/rules-and-regulations/3-pis-20210610-e.pdf

See 3.2.086 and 3.2.097.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Legs on 04 August, 2021, 10:16:05 am
Top Ganna!
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: TimC on 04 August, 2021, 10:17:51 am
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Beardy on 04 August, 2021, 11:34:11 am
(click to show/hide)
Third pursuant passing lead pursued is not consistent with first pursuant crashing into third pursued! GB were beaten hands down, that is beyond doubt, but I still hold that crashing into an opponent when you are not looking where you are going should incur a penalty.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Karla on 04 August, 2021, 11:42:46 am
What a shame for Denmark, I wanted them to win  :-[


More crashes too!
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Croft on 04 August, 2021, 12:00:56 pm
Not relevant to the Oz-NZ ride or the Den-GB one, but if there are 4 remaining in a team, is a "catch" when the fourth or third person is caught?
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: TimC on 04 August, 2021, 12:04:12 pm
(click to show/hide)
Third pursuant passing lead pursued is not consistent with first pursuant crashing into third pursued! GB were beaten hands down, that is beyond doubt, but I still hold that crashing into an opponent when you are not looking where you are going should incur a penalty.

GB were indeed far inferior to Denmark in their race - using Charlie as Ed's replacement without properly holding him in reserve cost them dearly. He performed much better today, though they went out much slower than they did yesterday. It's good that Madsen has apologised for his riding and his behaviour, but there should have been a sanction for it.

The rules thing is interesting (but no more than that!) as both teams should be allowed to complete the distance in order that they can record a time - at this level, it's likely that both teams may be going for National, Olympic or World records. The race is over at the point that the pursuant team (assuming they are riding as a unit) is within 1m of the pursued, so strictly speaking the gun should have been slightly earlier. I couldn't see any flags to warn that there was one off the back either, and there were none in the GB/Den race. Perhaps there's a red flag shortage in Japan.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Peter on 04 August, 2021, 02:32:34 pm
Not so sure about the records thing: the Olympics are intended to produce Olympic medallists - anything else is a by-product, surely.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: TimC on 04 August, 2021, 02:36:09 pm
On checking the rules, the allowance to continue riding after the catch only applies to the first two rounds of heats, not to the finals.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Peter on 04 August, 2021, 02:41:35 pm
Get your record in early, then!
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: cygnet on 04 August, 2021, 09:36:47 pm
The heats are TTs, only the "finals" are pursuits.

If you have the two fastest teams going for gold, a catch should be unlikely.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: spesh on 05 August, 2021, 01:02:30 pm
That was a brilliant performance by Matt Walls in the Omnium, but I can't help thinking that barring the Elimination race, it's now just minor variations on the same theme...
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Karla on 05 August, 2021, 01:22:00 pm
Well yes, that's been the Omnium's problem since forever.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Peter on 05 August, 2021, 01:42:38 pm
A true sportsman, how an Englishman loses:-

“It isn’t [a disappointing result]. I don’t expect to be the best in the world all the time. It is really hard to win, at the end of the day," he said.

“I gave it my best shot, and I just wasn’t good enough.

"For whatever reason, I wasn’t as good as I wanted to be physically, and these boys are just better.”

Jason Kenny

Call me old-fashioned but I really like that.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Nick H. on 05 August, 2021, 09:08:23 pm
The losing margin for the Danes in the team pursuit final was so, so tiny that the deciding factor may have been the aero tape and vests which they weren't allowed to use.  ;D  On the other hand the Hope/Lotus bike, which is claimed by Hope to have a "2-3% advantage" might turn out to be so fast that the UCI would have to ban it. I hope somebody does a fair test of it soon. I suspect that if GB had won there'd have been a lot of brouhaha.

OR maybe it has been secretly tested and found to be not so special, and the 2-3% claim is just to psych out the opposition. It does seem strange that nobody outside team GB has bought one. Hope said it would be "available to order from Jan 1 2020."
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: woollypigs on 06 August, 2021, 09:54:28 am
\o/ Trotty and Archibald - Great Britain’s Laura Kenny and Katie Archibald have won the gold medal in the women’s Madison at the Tokyo Olympics.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Salvatore on 06 August, 2021, 10:03:38 am
Wow. That was emphatic.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: woollypigs on 07 August, 2021, 08:05:08 pm
Dame Trotty \o/  Reports suggest that Laura Kenny is set to become a dame in the new year's honours after becoming Great Britain's most decorated female Olympian.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Beardy on 07 August, 2021, 11:34:00 pm
Much as I wish her well, I find myself a little repulsed at the idea of a successful person in a personal endeavour being ‘recognised’ buy the same establishment that freely sells ‘honours’ to party donors.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Jaded on 07 August, 2021, 11:38:35 pm
Olympic cycling is hardly ‘personal endeavour’.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: andyoxon on 08 August, 2021, 10:36:54 am
That was quite some Keirin final! 
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: drgannet on 08 August, 2021, 10:47:59 am
That was quite some Keirin final!

It would be a good place to retire...
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Socks on 08 August, 2021, 11:16:21 am
Shame about the Derny bike just being a standard electric bike.  They could at least have re-created an electric version of the little motorbike that was used in the past.  And got the rider to wear a big leather coat.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: spesh on 08 August, 2021, 01:10:20 pm
If I didn't know better, I'd swear Team GB had momentarily hacked the Aussie Olympic Team's Twitter account.  :demon:

Quote
.@MatthewGlaetzer showed exceptional form in the Olympic Men's Keirin Final to finish in 5th place.

Congratulations Matthew Glaetzer - outstanding tactics and inspiring so many!
Australia is so proud!
https://twitter.com/AUSOlympicTeam/status/1424205971392319491

Some of the replies are a bit salty, alleging Glaetzer sold the race to Kenny. To be fair to Glaetzer, he was probably more expecting someone like Lavreysen to launch from behind than for Kenny to go for a long one the instant the derny peeled off. The rest of the field must have been expecting Glaetzer to chase so he could tow them towards Kenny, so by the time they all woke up, it was too late.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: rafletcher on 08 August, 2021, 01:26:44 pm
Shame about the Derny bike just being a standard electric bike.  They could at least have re-created an electric version of the little motorbike that was used in the past.  And got the rider to wear a big leather coat.

Being Japan, I’m surprised it wasn’t a robot Derny. Though maybe Keirin is a bit too traditional for that.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: spesh on 08 August, 2021, 01:47:16 pm
I think Chris Hoy was saying something the other day about how going electric has lost one of the things which contributed to the whole Keirin show, because the tension in the velodrome would rise with the engine revs of the old motorbike before the action kicked off in the final three laps.

So what we need is a little sound system mounted on the e-bike, playing a recording of a derny motorbike/TIE Fighter/whatever. :demon:
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: woollypigs on 08 August, 2021, 01:57:47 pm
Yes one of the memories of going to the 6 days races in DK was the NOICE building up as each race came close to the last lap. Hitting the barriers and stomping on the steps/seats and the motor cycle revving up.

Along with the smoke, yes they used to smoke like no tomorrow in the VIP and coach area, coming up from chimney aka centre bit that was so thick that you couldn't see across to the far side of the track. And then the unlimited amount of hotdogs I could get when I did the beer runs for my dad and friends. Yes back then a 8-10 year old could buy beers for their folks without any question.   
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Beardy on 08 August, 2021, 02:36:49 pm
I think Chris Hoy was saying something the other day about how going electric has lost one of the things which contributed to the whole Keirin show, because the tension in the velodrome would rise with the engine revs of the old motorbike before the action kicked off in the final three laps.

So what we need is a little sound system mounted on the e-bike, playing a recording of a derny motorbike/TIE Fighter/whatever. :demon:
lolly sticks on the spokes would be ideal  ;D
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: spesh on 08 August, 2021, 02:56:18 pm
I think Chris Hoy was saying something the other day about how going electric has lost one of the things which contributed to the whole Keirin show, because the tension in the velodrome would rise with the engine revs of the old motorbike before the action kicked off in the final three laps.

So what we need is a little sound system mounted on the e-bike, playing a recording of a derny motorbike/TIE Fighter/whatever. :demon:
lolly sticks on the spokes would be ideal  ;D

Proper Old Skool. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Croft on 08 August, 2021, 04:11:27 pm
Given they seemed to repurpose the Euros mini-car ball deliverer to be the hammer/discus/shot conveyors, maybe they should just a put a very tall rider on one of these to do the pacing around the velodrome.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Peter on 08 August, 2021, 04:16:31 pm
Given they seemed to repurpose the Euros mini-car ball deliverer to be the hammer/discus/shot conveyors, maybe they should just a put a very tall rider on one of these to do the pacing around the velodrome.

Athletics has been using this method for decades, I think.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Jakob on 09 August, 2021, 12:27:39 am
Along with the smoke, yes they used to smoke like no tomorrow in the VIP and coach area, coming up from chimney aka centre bit that was so thick that you couldn't see across to the far side of the track. And then the unlimited amount of hotdogs I could get when I did the beer runs for my dad and friends. Yes back then a 8-10 year old could buy beers for their folks without any question.

I only got very faint memories of 6 day racing, but it's virtually identical.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Nick H. on 09 August, 2021, 12:39:59 am
Kenny's escape probably wouldn't have worked in Japanese keirin, because the riders have to declare their tactics before the race https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000lwm5/the-secret-world-of-japanese-bicycle-racing-with-sir-chris-hoy
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: woollypigs on 25 August, 2021, 07:14:33 am
Get in - 15, yes you read it correct 15, GOLD medals in the Paralympics to Dame Sarah Storey !!!
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Legs on 25 August, 2021, 12:10:47 pm
Yebbut if Crystal Lane-Wright had beaten her, it might have done more to dispel the impression that she just doesn't have any comparable competition.  She's an incredible cyclist, but her 10 Paralympic gold cycling medal are not what impress me most about her palmares.

See also; Mark Cavendish being beaten to third place in the sprint on the Champs Elysees - it increased the worth of his victories by demonstrating that he has strong competition.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: yoav on 25 August, 2021, 08:20:47 pm
Storey just missed out on making the Olympic team in 2012 and used to race regularly in British women’s road racing so she’s pretty good.
Title: Re: Tokyo Olympic - cycling
Post by: Legs on 25 August, 2021, 09:34:01 pm
That’s exactly what I mean  :thumbsup: