Author Topic: Women's LEJOG record attempt  (Read 22012 times)

Notfromrugby

Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #100 on: 26 May, 2022, 10:52:53 am »
John Woodburn, 45 hours 03 minutes, 1982

Andy Wilkinson lowered it by 57 seconds in 1990 but he was using tribars.

Comic report of Woodburn's ride
Comic report of Wilko's ride - he mentions his handlebars on p28

If you were looking for a soft record to beat, I'm afraid this isn't it: Woodburn was a legend and he set a very strong time!

Ha ha, no... I was just interested to see the difference. So, like for like, I am inclined to say that Woodburn's record was a stronger cycling performance than that of the current record holder. Looks like a 5% difference and you typically get more than that in a time trial going from a bog standard road bike to a full aero kit. Obviously one has to take into account wind, weather and whatnot, but on paper 45 hours on that bike looks mighty impressive... was it not longer too? It says 848 miles, is it not 839 now?

felstedrider

Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #101 on: 26 May, 2022, 11:00:22 am »
John Woodburn, 45 hours 03 minutes, 1982

Andy Wilkinson lowered it by 57 seconds in 1990 but he was using tribars.

Comic report of Woodburn's ride
Comic report of Wilko's ride - he mentions his handlebars on p28

If you were looking for a soft record to beat, I'm afraid this isn't it: Woodburn was a legend and he set a very strong time!

Ha ha, no... I was just interested to see the difference. So, like for like, I am inclined to say that Woodburn's record was a stronger cycling performance than that of the current record holder. Looks like a 5% difference and you typically get more than that in a time trial going from a bog standard road bike to a full aero kit. Obviously one has to take into account wind, weather and whatnot, but on paper 45 hours on that bike looks mighty impressive... was it not longer too? It says 848 miles, is it not 839 now?

I find debates like this deeply annoying but anyway.

I have watched a film of the Woodburn record and the conditions he had were significantly different to the rain encountered by 24hr maths (he's on here by the way so it's not terribly good form to belittle his ride).

Also note that Mike lost probably a couple of hours as he was unable to hold his head up for a lot of the last day.   There's plenty of film to confirm this.

Notfromrugby

Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #102 on: 26 May, 2022, 11:14:45 am »


I have watched a film of the Woodburn record and the conditions he had were significantly different to the rain encountered by 24hr maths (he's on here by the way so it's not terribly good form to belittle his ride).


Why belittling? Anyone who manages to something like that has my utmost respect. I just find 45 hours on that bike more impressive, that's all. I read that someone did 41 hours on a windcheetah... very impressive, but not as impressive as Broadwidth's... or Woodburn's.
I have a thing for the traditional handlebars...  ;D

Mr Larrington

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Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #103 on: 26 May, 2022, 11:18:48 am »
Andy Wilkinson – for it was he – was aiming for sub-40 in the Windcheetah but was foiled by a mechanical, IIRC somewhere near Bristol.
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Notfromrugby

Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #104 on: 26 May, 2022, 11:25:44 am »
Andy Wilkinson – for it was he – was aiming for sub-40 in the Windcheetah but was foiled by a mechanical, IIRC somewhere near Bristol.

Can't find any RRA definition of what is a cycle in their rules.... which is odd

felstedrider

Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #105 on: 26 May, 2022, 12:15:39 pm »
Andy Wilkinson – for it was he – was aiming for sub-40 in the Windcheetah but was foiled by a mechanical, IIRC somewhere near Bristol.

There's a good write up on that somewhere but I'm currently failing to find it.   They had to rig up a system of pipework to deal with the, erm, excess fluid.

I think it might have been in the very excellent End-to-End book that came out last year.

Karla

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Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #106 on: 26 May, 2022, 12:17:26 pm »
Our man at the RRA is 24hourmaths, so perhaps he'll pop up to inform us.  They're a very small organisation; I imagine they'd just harmonise with the CTT or UCI definitions rather than write their own. 

The "not as impressive" 41 hours on a Windcheetah was the same guy who beat Woodburn's 45 hours by a minute; yes he had tribars, but the weather for the 1990 attempt was atrocious, as it was an autumn attempt and when the weather window never appeared, he gave up waiting and started into a rainy headwind. 

And yes, on the Windcheetah ride he spent more than an hour snoozing by the side of the road while his team fixed one of his axles.  I can't actually find a date for when this one was done - Mr L, do you know?


Notfromrugby

Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #107 on: 26 May, 2022, 12:59:36 pm »

I think it might have been in the very excellent End-to-End book that came out last year.

I have said book and I don't think it's in it

Karla

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Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #108 on: 26 May, 2022, 01:32:50 pm »
It's linked from my post above  :demon:

Mr Larrington

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Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #109 on: 26 May, 2022, 04:29:42 pm »
Our man at the RRA is 24hourmaths, so perhaps he'll pop up to inform us.  They're a very small organisation; I imagine they'd just harmonise with the CTT or UCI definitions rather than write their own. 

The "not as impressive" 41 hours on a Windcheetah was the same guy who beat Woodburn's 45 hours by a minute; yes he had tribars, but the weather for the 1990 attempt was atrocious, as it was an autumn attempt and when the weather window never appeared, he gave up waiting and started into a rainy headwind. 

And yes, on the Windcheetah ride he spent more than an hour snoozing by the side of the road while his team fixed one of his axles.  I can't actually find a date for when this one was done - Mr L, do you know?

Not off the top of my head but I'm sure it got a mention in the BHPC mag.  Oh, hang on, Wikinaccurate says 1996, which means no grovelling in the archives trying to find it :thumbsup:
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Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #110 on: 26 May, 2022, 05:06:05 pm »
Nice article, thanks Karla

Notfromrugby

Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #111 on: 27 May, 2022, 08:30:35 am »
Our man at the RRA is 24hourmaths, so perhaps he'll pop up to inform us.  They're a very small organisation; I imagine they'd just harmonise with the CTT or UCI definitions rather than write their own. 

It just seems bizarre there isn't a detailed definition of what is a bicycle within the rules, whereas there are clear rules about how high on the ground the sign of "support vehicle" needs to be...
Maybe it's in the Handbook

Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #112 on: 27 May, 2022, 09:50:38 am »
Our man at the RRA is 24hourmaths, so perhaps he'll pop up to inform us.  They're a very small organisation; I imagine they'd just harmonise with the CTT or UCI definitions rather than write their own. 

It just seems bizarre there isn't a detailed definition of what is a bicycle within the rules, whereas there are clear rules about how high on the ground the sign of "support vehicle" needs to be...
Maybe it's in the Handbook

I suspect that they reference the British Cycling handbook

Quote
Unless expressly authorised by the format of
the competition, Events held under these
Technical Regulations are restricted to cycles
that are compliant with UCI Regulations
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Mr Larrington

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Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #113 on: 27 May, 2022, 10:10:53 am »
My recollection of what Mike Burrows said at the time was that they were happy to oversee record attempts with non-UCI compliant machinery if you asked nicely.  He was trying to get more BHPC members to have a go at road records with, it has to be said, a notable lack of success.
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Notfromrugby

Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #114 on: 27 May, 2022, 11:25:42 am »
UCI rules keep changing, they are different for road racing, time trials and track… so does that mean this is considered like a UCI time trial?
The other important thing is that UCI oversee racing, I am not 100% sure Lejog qualify as a race, so using rules designed for racing might not be the best choice… the very definition of a race involves having a winner among a group of competitors… here there are no winners and there isn’t a group of competitors.
It would probably be nice to have two categories, one heavily regulated, and one basically free, to allow all sorts of wacky velomobiles

Karla

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Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #115 on: 27 May, 2022, 11:27:04 am »
NFR you've got some very odd ideas  ???

Our man at the RRA is 24hourmaths, so perhaps he'll pop up to inform us.  They're a very small organisation; I imagine they'd just harmonise with the CTT or UCI definitions rather than write their own. 

The "not as impressive" 41 hours on a Windcheetah was the same guy who beat Woodburn's 45 hours by a minute; yes he had tribars, but the weather for the 1990 attempt was atrocious, as it was an autumn attempt and when the weather window never appeared, he gave up waiting and started into a rainy headwind. 

And yes, on the Windcheetah ride he spent more than an hour snoozing by the side of the road while his team fixed one of his axles.  I can't actually find a date for when this one was done - Mr L, do you know?

Not off the top of my head but I'm sure it got a mention in the BHPC mag.  Oh, hang on, Wikinaccurate says 1996, which means no grovelling in the archives trying to find it :thumbsup:

1996 was the year he won the BBAR with three comp records.  A busy time!

Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #116 on: 27 May, 2022, 11:35:20 am »
UCI rules keep changing, they are different for road racing, time trials and track… so does that mean this is considered like a UCI time trial?
The other important thing is that UCI oversee racing, I am not 100% sure Lejog qualify as a race, so using rules designed for racing might not be the best choice… the very definition of a race involves having a winner among a group of competitors… here there are no winners and there isn’t a group of competitors.
It would probably be nice to have two categories, one heavily regulated, and one basically free, to allow all sorts of wacky velomobiles

Quote
Unless expressly authorised by the format of the competition

That is pretty clear.

You want to attempt it in a 4person rowbike? Ask them. I'm sure they'll be happy to record that as a category. Evidence (faired windcheater) seems to suggest that they are open to ideas.
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LittleWheelsandBig

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Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #117 on: 27 May, 2022, 11:43:35 am »
The RRA were very happy to work with Wilko because of his proven ability and determination on 'normal' bikes. They still didn't list his HPV record as an official RRA record. I am not sure they would be so happy to put the time and effort into timing Joe Random on some weird-bike (TM).
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Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #118 on: 27 May, 2022, 01:07:06 pm »
My recollection of what Mike Burrows said at the time was that they were happy to oversee record attempts with non-UCI compliant machinery if you asked nicely.  He was trying to get more BHPC members to have a go at road records with, it has to be said, a notable lack of success.

It would probably be nice to have two categories, one heavily regulated, and one basically free, to allow all sorts of wacky velomobiles

Has nobody had a crack at it in a Milan SL or similar?  Seems like a conspicuous omission.

Notfromrugby

Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #119 on: 27 May, 2022, 02:05:47 pm »
Has nobody had a crack at it in a Milan SL or similar?  Seems like a conspicuous omission.

No, but it has been done in 7 days on a Brompton... when I became aware of it, I quickly updated Wikipedia, as I thought it was a valiant effort!

Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #120 on: 27 May, 2022, 02:14:24 pm »
There is a great movie by Ray Pascoe that documents John Woodburn's 1982 record called "2 days and 2 night"

https://www.bromleyvideo.com/2-days--2-nights---revisited-dvd-128-p.asp

I think it's an interesting pastime for all riders, after any TT, to ponder to themselves, was that a good ride... or not? I'm sure that that element of self-reflection is part of the sport. I've ridden a few 24 hour races for my sins and I will sometime try to decide, with hindsight, which ones were the 'better' rides... and never really came to a solid conclusion.

There is a video here about the current men's LEJOG record holder which explores some of that idea at points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbFgPom8YY0

Having spoken to Andy about the HPV attempt, it sounded utterly horrible - hot, sweaty, hair-raisingly dangerous and soaked in his own urine.

If you are interested, I have had the privilege of interviewing all the living record holders, from Eileen Sheridan to Christina Mackenzie, on behalf of the RRA. These interviews include Andy and Gethin and can be found on the RRA Soundcloud:

https://soundcloud.com/user-971271891-227782844

Auntie Helen

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Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #121 on: 27 May, 2022, 05:01:09 pm »
Has nobody had a crack at it in a Milan SL or similar?  Seems like a conspicuous omission.

No, but it has been done in 7 days on a Brompton... when I became aware of it, I quickly updated Wikipedia, as I thought it was a valiant effort!
Lots of Germans doing the German end-to-end these days (south to north), one is doing it in a Milan SL shortly.

https://www.velomobilforum.de/forum/index.php?threads/rekordversuch-deutschland-sued-nord-2022.64372/
My blog on cycling in Germany and eating German cake – http://www.auntiehelen.co.uk


Notfromrugby

Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #122 on: 03 June, 2022, 09:57:56 am »
There is a great movie by Ray Pascoe that documents John Woodburn's 1982 record called "2 days and 2 night"

https://www.bromleyvideo.com/2-days--2-nights---revisited-dvd-128-p.asp

I think it's an interesting pastime for all riders, after any TT, to ponder to themselves, was that a good ride... or not? I'm sure that that element of self-reflection is part of the sport. I've ridden a few 24 hour races for my sins and I will sometime try to decide, with hindsight, which ones were the 'better' rides... and never really came to a solid conclusion.

There is a video here about the current men's LEJOG record holder which explores some of that idea at points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbFgPom8YY0

Having spoken to Andy about the HPV attempt, it sounded utterly horrible - hot, sweaty, hair-raisingly dangerous and soaked in his own urine.

If you are interested, I have had the privilege of interviewing all the living record holders, from Eileen Sheridan to Christina Mackenzie, on behalf of the RRA. These interviews include Andy and Gethin and can be found on the RRA Soundcloud:

https://soundcloud.com/user-971271891-227782844

Found two days and two nights on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X62-C58JPN4

Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #123 on: 11 July, 2022, 12:16:03 pm »
Great film of John Woodburn’s attempt.

Notfromrugby

Re: Women's LEJOG record attempt
« Reply #124 on: 12 July, 2022, 09:31:30 am »
Great film of John Woodburn’s attempt.

Yeah, his position on the bike is impressive, for someone who has to ride for 2 days non stop