Author Topic: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook  (Read 8801 times)

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #25 on: 30 October, 2021, 02:25:31 pm »
Afasoas: What you describe about your perception of Mastodon is lived experience for women, BME, trans and disabled people on literally every other social media platform.

Are you sure it was hatred, or people 'venting' or discussing their lived experiences where cis white men have a lot of the power out there and abuse it.

I know it can be hard when a marginalised group you are not part of says quite blunt things like "bloody white people" or "fucking cis people". It can feel hard not to reply with the equivalent of #NotAllMen (#NotAllWhites or #NotAllCis)... Cos there's often general truths in there somewhere... Cos we KNOW #NotAllWhatevers but MinorityGroupTM often has to assume #YesAllWhatevers cos anything else simply isn't safe.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #26 on: 31 October, 2021, 09:37:06 am »

I have a mastadon account. I think it's quality is directly related to who you follow. I basically follow a dozen or so techy geeks who I all know personally. So it's basically silly pictures and amusing security vulnerabilities. Because there is no algorithmic feed, it really is about who you follow.

But, it can also be a haven for all the shit that people have mentioned up thread. But you can avoid it by just following nice people.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Afasoas

Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #27 on: 31 October, 2021, 11:45:39 am »
Afasoas: What you describe about your perception of Mastodon is lived experience for women, BME, trans and disabled people on literally every other social media platform.

Fully recognised and agreed. You are absolutely right.

Are you sure it was hatred, or people 'venting' or discussing their lived experiences where cis white men have a lot of the power out there and abuse it.

I know it can be hard when a marginalised group you are not part of says quite blunt things like "bloody white people" or "fucking cis people". It can feel hard not to reply with the equivalent of #NotAllMen (#NotAllWhites or #NotAllCis)... Cos there's often general truths in there somewhere... Cos we KNOW #NotAllWhatevers but MinorityGroupTM often has to assume #YesAllWhatevers cos anything else simply isn't safe.

I really don't have any problem with people venting or discussing their lived experiences, especially when those people are oppressed and marginalised. In fact, I would whole heartedly encourage it.
I've been villified on-line for my views in several situations. For example, standing as a candidate on a socialist platform. I was threatened, sent hate male, verbally attacked and physically threatened in the street. But I had a choice, I could have stood down. I know there are people subject to abuse who do not have that choice, so whilst I can relate, I can't really relate.

I just wish there were spaces on-line where everyone could feel respected and valued. I hate that there are members of certain groups who are subject to abuse for sharing, on any given platform. I'm lucky to have a diverse group of people I consider friends and it pains to know that there are not many spaces where they would all feel welcome.

I joined instances and followed people on Mastadon based on my technical interests. What I experienced was much much more than venting. Even with a thick skin, I wasn't really prepared to feel so villified.

On a slightly different note, I joined Telegram I got banned from a trove of groups managed by the same people for calling out some fairly horrendous misogyny and bigotry.  :sick:

Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #28 on: 31 October, 2021, 01:09:49 pm »
Social media has been turned into British rivers: a vile cesspool of toxic crap and pollution.

It's far better for a person's mental health to not bother with such shit.

I live in two worlds:  as a middle aged white man I am laden down with white privilege and all the fortune of being a man.  On the other hand I am a scrounging, lazy, workshy bastard for being disabled.   It's a truly confusing state of affairs.

Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #29 on: 31 October, 2021, 01:40:54 pm »
Social media has been turned into British rivers: a vile cesspool of toxic crap and pollution.

It's far better for a person's mental health to not bother with such shit.

It depends. I think it's a bit like reading newspapers online. Choose which newspaper you read with care and never read the comments. If you do this it can be a relatively sane experience I say this with twitter in mind, rather than FB, because FB for me is purely about family and friends and never about discussion.

Twitter can be incredibly useful, as long as you aware of its tribal nature, and only follow people with expertise, rather than the legions of headless chickens who start squawking and view the noise they provoke as affirmation  of truth.

I have noticed that a lot of news stories in the traditional media start their lives a day or two earlier on twitter.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #30 on: 31 October, 2021, 01:52:23 pm »
One advantage of Twitter is that you can access it via the API and avoid the advertising and the worst of the algorithmic engagement-manipulation.  Social media is a lot more congenial when you only see posts from people you care about in chronological order.

In general, Twitter seems more conducive to random interactions between un-connected people that can have positive outcomes (it's always lovely when you get one of those threads where random physicists and biologists come together to work out whether spiders can see the moon), rather than the social bubbling effect of Facebook.  Which isn't to say that Sturgeon's Law doesn't apply, or that if you go looking for a fight you won't find one.

Obviously Twitter's been trying to turn into Facebook since it became more than a broadcast SMS tool.  It won't end well.

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #31 on: 31 October, 2021, 03:52:31 pm »
Twitter can be a hellsite, but this can be dealt with by frequent use of the block button.

I do like Twitter for letting me meet and get to know people I may never have known before. People who also care about say disability or LGBT rights. I've got to know people who challenge my thinking in useful not shitty ways. I've been able to help people with disability admin cos a friend of a friend tagged me.

I would like a pure chronological timeline, but I have to bodge that a bit.

Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #32 on: 31 October, 2021, 04:27:37 pm »

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #33 on: 31 October, 2021, 04:46:08 pm »
I often use the word "meta" as an adjective (e.g. "A radio advert for radio advertising? That's a bit meta", and I suppose this is going to ruin it.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #34 on: 31 October, 2021, 05:50:05 pm »
I don't think I get what the problem is with WhatsApp. I know it's owned by Facebook and I assume it's sending all my data to a big warehouse where it's sold to advertisers and the KGB, but I assume the same happens with texts and emails. But WhatsApp, unlike YouTube, Twitter or (I presume – I've never had an account) Facebook, doesn't suggest things that it wants me to watch or read or associate with. It sends my messages to the people I choose, not the people it chooses (apart from the KGB etc).
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #35 on: 31 October, 2021, 05:56:47 pm »
WhatsApp is shit at video calls (sync issues etc. described above), and doesn't work properly on a desktop computer.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #36 on: 31 October, 2021, 06:06:54 pm »
Well yes but that just makes it crap at those particular applications, rather than evil.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Tim Hall

  • Victoria is my queen
Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #37 on: 31 October, 2021, 07:40:03 pm »
WhatsApp is shit at video calls (sync issues etc. described above), and doesn't work properly on a desktop computer.
I haven't had problems (maybe I've ignored them) using the web based interface for WhatsApp on my desktop. What issues are you having ?
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #38 on: 31 October, 2021, 07:54:15 pm »
I'm on WhatsApp for family reasons, but we only use it in IM chat mode.
So I have individual chats with people, and family group chats.
And that all seems to work.

I've never looked at the video or audio calling, I have no use for those.

Re using it on a PC, I've no idea how to do that. When I set it up initially, it seemed to be tied to a mobile device and phone number. I suppose that's changed?


Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #39 on: 31 October, 2021, 08:07:23 pm »
It's very handy for kid related stuff, like tonight's Halloween party at ours, and subsequent begging for sugar trick or treating.

Set up group, add necessary people, everyone who needs to see info sees it, with no replication needed

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #40 on: 31 October, 2021, 08:12:51 pm »
WhatsApp is shit at video calls (sync issues etc. described above), and doesn't work properly on a desktop computer.
I haven't had problems (maybe I've ignored them) using the web based interface for WhatsApp on my desktop. What issues are you having ?

You don't seem to be able to make video (or presumably audio) calls from the desktop application.

Unfortunately, we're using this with Natalya's Mum, who is a bogon source, and dyslexic.  FaceTime would presumably solve the problem reasonably well, but would require Fruity hardware that we don't have.  Getting her to install something that works acceptibly well for lip-reading (eg. Zoom or Signal) is a work in progress (I eventually talked her through installing Zoom on her MacBook, but was defeated from actually getting her to join a meeting by the MacBook being unable to receive email).

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #41 on: 31 October, 2021, 08:17:15 pm »
Re using it on a PC, I've no idea how to do that. When I set it up initially, it seemed to be tied to a mobile device and phone number. I suppose that's changed?

It seems to work the same way Signal does, with users being identified by their mobile phone number.  The desktop client has to be linked to a phone's account in order to operate.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #42 on: 31 October, 2021, 08:20:26 pm »
I found when my SIM was deactivated (see Rant thread) the WhatsApp still worked on my phone, though obviously only when on wi-fi. As soon as I sorted the SIM out, in a different phone, WhatsApp stopped working on the old phone.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

ian

Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #43 on: 01 November, 2021, 09:28:09 am »
...
I have noticed that a lot of news stories in the traditional media start their lives a day or two earlier on twitter.

Cheap, lazy journalism, innit. It also creates the impression that Twitter is more representative than it is. You can have a 'news' desk that really just has to regurgitate what pops up in its Twitter feed (broken up by doing much the same with the press release pieces that have dropped into the inbox).

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #44 on: 01 November, 2021, 09:33:08 am »
Social media has been turned into British rivers: a vile cesspool of toxic crap and pollution.

It's far better for a person's mental health to not bother with such shit.

I live in two worlds:  as a middle aged white man I am laden down with white privilege and all the fortune of being a man.  On the other hand I am a scrounging, lazy, workshy bastard for being disabled.   It's a truly confusing state of affairs.

Twitter is only as good as the people you follow. If you turn off the algorithmic feed (I do this by using tweetdeck). Then you just get the tweets of your followers, in chronological order.

Then it's only a vile cesspit if you actively follow shit people. I do recommend that as well as following interesting people, you also follow some accounts like @emergencykittens @hourlycats @hourlywolf @otter_emergency @hourlykitten. This way you get your regular tweets about cycling and public transport (main things I seem to see other than politics), interspersed with pictures of adorable animals being adorable.

I also recommend @angrytheinch, she posts pictures of adorable red squirrels during the summer, and amazing aurora during the winter.

Twitter is only as good as the people you follow. If you're finding it full of shit, that's cos you're following the wrong people, or you've not worked out how to turn the algorithm off.

Seriously, switch to tweetdeck, follow the above accounts, and see how your experience of twitter improves.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

woollypigs

  • Mr Peli
    • woollypigs
Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #45 on: 01 November, 2021, 11:25:48 am »
Agreed and also the adds are puff gone too :)
Current mood: AARRRGGGGHHHHH !!! #bollockstobrexit

Tim Hall

  • Victoria is my queen
Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #46 on: 01 November, 2021, 11:49:25 am »
WhatsApp is shit at video calls (sync issues etc. described above), and doesn't work properly on a desktop computer.
I haven't had problems (maybe I've ignored them) using the web based interface for WhatsApp on my desktop. What issues are you having ?

You don't seem to be able to make video (or presumably audio) calls from the desktop application.

Unfortunately, we're using this with Natalya's Mum, who is a bogon source, and dyslexic.  FaceTime would presumably solve the problem reasonably well, but would require Fruity hardware that we don't have.  Getting her to install something that works acceptibly well for lip-reading (eg. Zoom or Signal) is a work in progress (I eventually talked her through installing Zoom on her MacBook, but was defeated from actually getting her to join a meeting by the MacBook being unable to receive email).
<mode=egg sucking, user=$grandmother> I think the W10 desktop app now allows video calling. https://www.alphr.com/whatsapp-video-call-windows/. There's an unofficial *nix app too that claims video calling is possible too. </mode> 
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

Beardy

  • Shedist
Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #47 on: 01 November, 2021, 12:15:14 pm »
I miss the days when you could use a third party app like tweetdeck to get all your social media feeds in on place and ad free into the bargain.

I’ve largely solved this conundrum by dumping nearly all social media interactions save YACF and twitter, the latter I visit only very occasionally (usually by following a link from here!). I do miss out on the wider family news on Facebook, and I occasionally miss my old friends from work, but on the whole, I think my fondleslab usage is much less negative. We use WhatsApp for family wide messaging, although I’ve recently started a campaign to try and get everyone onto Signal; it could take some time.
For every complex problem in the world, there is a simple and easily understood solution that’s wrong.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #48 on: 01 November, 2021, 01:37:03 pm »
I miss the days when you could use a third party app like tweetdeck to get all your social media feeds in on place and ad free into the bargain.

I'm still mostly following twitter via a client that displays messages in an extra channel window on my IRC client.

This renders a lot of tweets as little more than [URL to image] or [stream of emoji the terminal font doesn't have glyphs for], but for the most part I'm not missing out on much.  It means I can use the IRC client's usual features for keeping track of a stream of short messages that I may or may not be paying real-time attention to, which works very well.

I've got a lovely graphical client on my smartphone that was clamped down on by twitter for being too popular, and can no longer be installed by new users.  No adverts, chronological timeline, graceful handling of media on a bandwidth-restricted connection.  It even does ALT text properly.


Obviously none of this is in the social media companies' interests.  They might as well be running a usenet server, for all the monetisation potential.

Zipperhead

  • The cyclist formerly known as Big Helga
Re: Welcome to Meta, in no way is it like Facebook
« Reply #49 on: 01 November, 2021, 02:30:51 pm »
WhatsApp is shit at video calls (sync issues etc. described above), and doesn't work properly on a desktop computer.
I haven't had problems (maybe I've ignored them) using the web based interface for WhatsApp on my desktop. What issues are you having ?

You don't seem to be able to make video (or presumably audio) calls from the desktop application.

Unfortunately, we're using this with Natalya's Mum, who is a bogon source, and dyslexic.  FaceTime would presumably solve the problem reasonably well, but would require Fruity hardware that we don't have.  Getting her to install something that works acceptibly well for lip-reading (eg. Zoom or Signal) is a work in progress (I eventually talked her through installing Zoom on her MacBook, but was defeated from actually getting her to join a meeting by the MacBook being unable to receive email).

Google meet only requires a browser (plus access to the camera/mike). You can create a meeting and then send her a link. The meetings can be perpetual so that the link can be bookmarked (we've been using the same one for a work meeting for 18 months, easier than slack / teams / whatever)
Won't somebody think of the hamsters!