Getting to Debden - what advice to give to overseas entrants?

[MikeFromLFE]

On the LEL Facebook page there's a slow trickle of questions from overseas riders about the best way to get from Heathrow / Central London to Debden.
I've stuck my oar in a couple of times (as has Helly) but it's a while since I've ridden in London and even longer since I lived in the Great Wen.

What to say to these people?
They may well be not used to riding on the left; they might be jet-lagged; they may have camping equipment or other luggage.
London is not an easy place to navigate if you're not used to it, and I used to find the traffic (and other cyclists) unforgiving of hesitation & uncertainty.

Various suggestions have included:
Train to Paddington and ride from there (see above)
Train to Paddington and ride along towpaths (I'm not sure I'd suggest the badlands of the River Lea to the unwary)
Train to Paddington, Circle Line to Liverpool Street and Overground to Chingford - short ride to Debden
Illegally taking your bike on the deep tube all the way to Epping (Ha!)
Arriving a day early and going outside the M25 (my favourite)
The campsite has a minibus & trailer for those who are camping (dunno if this is correct)

Am I likely to be overstating the issues of London cycling for the unwary in any replies I make?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

I would prefer the Train/ Circle/ Overground if I was flying in from overseas, despite the numerous transfers, from amongst the public transport options. It depends if my luggage could easily be carried on the bike, which suggests a short-haul flight.

I might opt for a taxi all the way, if I had problems comfortably carrying everything on the bike. A transfer doesn’t cost a huge amount compared to long-haul flights.

[Neil C]

I think you are wise to be wary of giving advice without knowing more about their experience.

I've lived in the London suburbs all my life but wouldn't want to be cycling through the centre in the Friday evening rush hour, with lots of luggage, not exactly sure where I was going.

The minibus and trailer is run by the wife of the caretaker of Davenant School.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/londonedinburghlondon/permalink/1922581271259201/

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Riding out of an airport or through heavy traffic when jet-lagged is no fun, particularly when riding on the wrong side and/or trying to understand foreign language signage e.g. Thai and Greek lettering is difficult for me to recognise. I do my best to avoid repeating those circumstances.

[Lightning Phil]

I provided a route from Luton Airport to Debden in 2017.  A quiet one through the lanes.  Think I split it in two, with a hotel stop near Waltham Cross.  A few riders took that option.   I will still have the GPX track from Luton on my PC but I haven’t been on FB for 4 years.

Stansted Airport is also an option for some, with either a 30 min taxi, 2 hour ride through lanes, or train part way then ride a shortish distance.

If a rider isn’t fixed on staying in central London, then those airports may be alternate options for them. There’s still trains from them into London if they are.  Luton airport parkway will land them into St Pancras.   Stansted they might need a short ride to a station to get a local train.  That’ll drop them into Liverpool Street.

[psyclist]

Stansted they might need a short ride to a station to get a local train.  That’ll drop them into Liverpool Street.

Or take the train down as far as Waltham Cross, then Debden is a short ride from there.

[Wycombewheeler]

I'm not sure if it is possible to cycle out of Heathrow (central terminals) at all.
Assuming they are arriving at Heathrow with a bike box, I'd really just recommend getting a taxi all the way.
If they are staying in central London before the ride, then Piccadilly line (heathrow express costs a lot more for a half hour time saving), note this would need a boxed bike.
Heathrow express will take full bikes. as will the circle line so this is really the best bet if bike is assembled and bike box left at heathrow.
Cycling between Paddington and Liverpool street is mostly ok on good infra except the first bit from Paddington to marble arch (marble arch, hyde park corner, Trafalgar square, embankment) (marble arch, buckingham palace, tower of London/tower bridge not far off route so good sightseeing)
I would not advise anyone to attempt to cycle from central London to Debden, the roads heading out that way are quite unpleasant, and the off road routes not especially secure for the ingle traveller with an expensive bike

[robgul]

Having lived in the vicinity of the start I would recommend the suggestion already made:   

Heathrow Express to Paddington - Circle Line to Liverpool Street - Overground to Chingford - and then just over 7km to ride.   

Right out of the station, Rangers Road, R&L 50 meters to cross A104 to Manor Road, L into High Road through Loughton, R into Rectory Lane, L into Hillyfields which becomes Chester Road and Davenant School is straight ahead. 

Note: bikes aren't allowed on the Circle in rush hours (whatever they may be - ?TFL website)

[Wycombewheeler]

Note: bikes aren't allowed on the Circle in rush hours (whatever they may be - ?TFL website)

not allowed between 07:30 and 09:30, or between 16:00 and 19:00
Most people arriving from across the Atlantic would land early in the morning, so the 07:30 to 09:30 is likely to be relevant.

[MikeFromLFE]

Thanks all - I've linked this thread on a couple of FB posts.
I note that Danial has given full details of the minibus service in the FB thread including contact details and prices.
Keep the thoughts coming   

[chrisbainbridge]

I don't think you even need to stay at the campsite to use the minibus service. I think for jet lagged riders that has to be the safest and most sensible option.

[arabella]

"Be prepared" is the bleeding obvious response, bring a map of/route through London!
The time I cycled back from Heathrow I had as a map a YHA leaflet I picked up on the way out of Heathrow and some minimal local knowledge.
Thus I went into London, around the North Circular and up the A10 - then asked how to get to Saffron Walden YH.  I can't remember what I did after that (most likely navigate from town to town) and then the end bit was local knowledge.  This wouldn't have worked in $other_country.

[Lightning Phil]

Had a check of 2017 and the hotel a few stayed at was the Premier Inn , Waltham Abbey. It’s 8-9km from start depending what route you take.

[markcjagar]

I would not advise anyone to attempt to cycle from central London to Debden, the roads heading out that way are quite unpleasant

That's what I did in 2017. I don't remember it being that bad.

[Wycombewheeler]

I'm considering using public transport to get to the start instead of driving, as it should make the homeward journey more pleasant.
Do we think there are likely to be large numbers of people trying to get trains from Liverpool street to Debden on the Sunday?

[robgul]

I'm considering using public transport to get to the start instead of driving, as it should make the homeward journey more pleasant.
Do we think there are likely to be large numbers of people trying to get trains from Liverpool street to Debden on the Sunday?

You can't use the Central Line from Liverpool Street to Debden (bikes are only allowed from Leyton onwards as the first part is underground) - the alternative is to take the proper train to Chingford and ride from there - or just ride to Leyton and get the Central Line frome there.   That said, if you have the time, riding from Liverpool Street to Debden isn't too bad.

[toontra]

There's now also the Elizabeth Line (Crossrail) that will take you from Heathrow to Paddington (and beyond, but that requires changing from overground to underground).  Probably cheaper than Heathrow Express and the carriage layout is good for manoeuvring bikes (tested yesterday).

[Mr Larrington]

No unfolded bikes allowed into Paddington from the west on the Missis Kwin line during weekday morning peak periods, though.

[toontra]

Ah OK.  Yes, we were travelling after 9.30am.  Not sure of any other restrictions.

[rafletcher]

No unfolded bikes allowed into Paddington from the west on the Missis Kwin line during weekday morning peak periods, though.

But OK on a Sunday, when the OP intends to travel?

[Mr Larrington]

No unfolded bikes allowed into Paddington from the west on the Missis Kwin line during weekday morning peak periods, though.

But OK on a Sunday, when the OP intends to travel?

Yes, no restrictions at weekends.

[hellymedic]

No unfolded bikes allowed into Paddington from the west on the Missis Kwin line during weekday morning peak periods, though.

But OK on a Sunday, when the OP intends to travel?

No Elizabeth line on Sundays, at all...

[Lightning Phil]

I'm considering using public transport to get to the start instead of driving, as it should make the homeward journey more pleasant.
Do we think there are likely to be large numbers of people trying to get trains from Liverpool street to Debden on the Sunday?

Always get a train to Waltham Cross if you don’t mind a 12km ride to/from start/finish.

[Wycombewheeler]

There's now also the Elizabeth Line (Crossrail) that will take you from Heathrow to Paddington (and beyond, but that requires changing from overground to underground).  Probably cheaper than Heathrow Express and the carriage layout is good for manoeuvring bikes (tested yesterday).

I though assembled bikes were also banned on the underground sections of crossrail?

That said, if you have the time, riding from Liverpool Street to Debden isn't too bad.

I'm still recovering from the trauma of cycling from central London to Waltham cross on the 2019 Easter arrow, and that was 9am on a bank holiday. I also remember riding out to epping from central London and it was tolerable but not enjoyable.

[Wycombewheeler]

I'm considering using public transport to get to the start instead of driving, as it should make the homeward journey more pleasant.
Do we think there are likely to be large numbers of people trying to get trains from Liverpool street to Debden on the Sunday?

Always get a train to Waltham Cross if you don’t mind a 12km ride to/from start/finish.

This is the sort of thing I was considering, but didn't want to find 30 like minded cyclists being told there was not enough room on the train for so many bikes