Yet Another Cycling Forum
Off Topic => The Pub => The Sporting Life => Topic started by: Tigerrr on 30 July, 2012, 06:04:51 pm
-
Most of the athletes at the olympics compete against each other all the time as they are all international pro or semi pro champions. They compete mostly to be the best. Nationality is fairly irrelevant. (Or so it was when I was competing).
At the olympics though it is very strongly packaged as national. Its a bit of a fantasy though - Bradley Wiggins is not really mostly about Team UK but much more about Bradley Wiggins isnt he?
I thought the athletes exploit the Olympics for the funding and resourcing suppoprt etc, and in return they have to act up the national bit for the audience to increase emotional engagement and connection.
I guess I was a bit shocked to see the Chines flag raising ceremony accompanied by what I took to be army officers in another thread on weight lifting - it introduced a nasty militaristic message that makes overt what is otherwise only implicit.
-
There have been service people acting as stewards at Wimbledon (as in the lawn tennis & croquet club championship) for donkeys years and surely its no surprise there are service people at the Olympics. Stick service types in a hall when there are flags being raised and they're sort of obliged to put their hats on and stand to attention. That's it, really.
If you want to complain about militaristic imagery at the Olympics then you're four years too late...
-
To be fair, you'd be best off complaining about the whole concept of nation states in this postmodern blah instead. ;)
The patriotic vibe I'm picking up, almost entirely, is "Come on our lot!" and "Isn't that other chap bloody good? We deserved to be beaten by them!" There is a difference between patriotism and nationalism, and I think it reflects upon the poster to find darkness where the rest of us are finding light.
-
... the whole concept of nation states in this postmodern blah instead. ;)
I'm looking forward to Microsoft v Apple in the Greco-Roman Wrestling...
-
The patriotic vibe I'm picking up, almost entirely, is "Come on our lot!" and "Isn't that other chap bloody good? We deserved to be beaten by them!" There is a difference between patriotism and nationalism, and I think it reflects upon the poster to find darkness where the rest of us are finding light.
Hear-hear :thumbsup:
(and it is getting a bit boring, this repeated accusation of nationalism with no evidence. It crops up with every international contest, so I guess the Olympics were bound to trigger yet another nutter ::-) )
-
... the whole concept of nation states in this postmodern blah instead. ;)
I'm looking forward to Microsoft v Apple in the Greco-Roman Wrestling...
(http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6304687408656696643) Steve Ballmer would get the Gold.
-
I got cheered by a couple of soccer types with a resounding 'Bradley, Bradley' on the way back from the pub on Sunday, I've just been out for a ride, and coming back a lad in an Astra opened his window and shouted that our girl made up for Saturday yesterday, so patriotism has its uses. I'm always cheered by England successes in Soccer, Rugby and Cricket, but I know next to nothing about those sports.
Those who do know, tell me that it's something of a relief when a boring England team falter in a tournament.
-
I got cheered by a couple of soccer types with a resounding 'Bradley, Bradley' on the way back from the pub on Sunday.
Were you in your Black and White stripes?
(http://www.fgrtrust.com/communities/3/004/006/649/613/images/4522319776.jpg)
-
The PBP 2005 shirt, so Black and White Stripes were involved.
Here's a picture of Ivo touring in one.
I'd put the captions in, but they're in Esperanto, not much of a nationalist our Ivo, he's more of a Limburger.
(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/406641_4367043140366_249949756_n.jpg)
-
It's a little known fact that he was born in Esperantia.
-
The patriotic vibe I'm picking up, almost entirely, is "Come on our lot!" and "Isn't that other chap bloody good? We deserved to be beaten by them!" There is a difference between patriotism and nationalism, and I think it reflects upon the poster to find darkness where the rest of us are finding light.
Hear-hear :thumbsup:
(and it is getting a bit boring, this repeated accusation of nationalism with no evidence. It crops up with every international contest, so I guess the Olympics were bound to trigger yet another nutter ::-) )
Yeah, that.
I had a great time waving a gert big union flag at the end of the Tour, and at the road races this weekend. I've stuck a slightly smaller one on the bike (there are heaps of vehicles with flags driving around the area where I work, so why not...plus fluttery things on the bike made drivers give me more room...)
It does make me think of the bit in Adrian Mole where Barry Kemp is sent home from school for wearing a union flag t-shirt, and told he was a fascist, but never mind about that ;D
-
It's a little known fact that he was born in Esperantia.
Bizzarely, such a state did sort of exist close to Maastricht from 1816 to 1920.
Neutral Moresnet[1] was a tiny Belgian-Prussian condominium that existed from 1816 to 1920 between present-day Belgium and Germany. Prior to Belgian independence in 1830, the territory was a Dutch-Prussian condominium. During the First World War, the territory was annexed into Prussia, although the allies did not recognise the annexation.
The former territory is now in the Belgian city of Kelmis. Today, it is especially of interest to Esperantists because of initiatives to found an Esperanto-speaking state on the territory in the early 20th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_Moresnet
I found out about in a Christmas novelty book called 'Whatever Happened to Tanganyika'. Always a good source of useless erudition.
-
To be fair, you'd be best off complaining about the whole concept of nation states in this postmodern blah instead. ;)
The patriotic vibe I'm picking up, almost entirely, is "Come on our lot!" and "Isn't that other chap bloody good? We deserved to be beaten by them!" There is a difference between patriotism and nationalism, and I think it reflects upon the poster to find darkness where the rest of us are finding light.
I don't think I'm watching the same olympics as you*, or, at least, not with the same people.
But patriotism/nationalism usually winds me up.
(*I've watched not very much of it)
-
From a couple of days of wandering around the Olympics, I've found people to be more friendly, and we were approached by more people, precisely because we were carrying a flag of another nation. People kept asking to have their pictures taken with us and our stupidly large China flag.
-
I don't have much time for nationalism. But, since Mexico in 1968 (the first Olympics I remember), I have been impressed by sporting excellence, without being hampered by having to support people just because of their origin.
My sporting heroes are from Belgium, France, UK, Italy, Colombia, India etc
-
To be fair, you'd be best off complaining about the whole concept of nation states in this postmodern blah instead. ;)
The patriotic vibe I'm picking up, almost entirely, is "Come on our lot!" and "Isn't that other chap bloody good? We deserved to be beaten by them!" There is a difference between patriotism and nationalism, and I think it reflects upon the poster to find darkness where the rest of us are finding light.
I don't think I'm watching the same olympics as you*, or, at least, not with the same people.
But patriotism/nationalism usually winds me up.
(*I've watched not very much of it)
Yeah, and some people think there's no nationalism:
competitors compete in national teams (can anyone take part as an individual?),
"xxx xxx wins gold for name of country",
medal tables,
national anthems galore,
constant flag waving,
watching a sport you have no interest in just because someone from your country might win,
broadcasting an event you would never show on TV at any other time (coz it's a weird minority sport, worldwide) just because someone from your country might win,
get ecstatic cos the winner just happens to be from the same country as you,
get really disappointed just cos the winner just happens to be not from the same country as you,
it's a final, but we're not going to show it on TV, coz none of the people are from our country,
person comes second and they're on every national newspaper front page of their country,
etc
It's the Olympics.
-
person comes second and they're on every national newspaper front page of their country,
etc
It's the Olympics.
"Cav didn't win" is headline news - with no mention of who actually did win!
-
I do think though that there's nothing wrong in supporting a competitor or wanting them to win just because they're from your country - or a country you associate with or like for any reason. What's bad is being against people because of their nationality, citizenship or origin.
-
person comes second and they're on every national newspaper front page of their country,
etc
It's the Olympics.
"Cav didn't win" is headline news - with no mention of who actually did win!
Personally I'd be happy not having Vino's name and picture all over the papers, but I understand that is beside the point.
-
From a couple of days of wandering around the Olympics, I've found people to be more friendly, and we were approached by more people, precisely because we were carrying a flag of another nation. People kept asking to have their pictures taken with us and our stupidly large China flag.
I had you down as Hong Kong, I was certainly impressed by the performance of Wong Kam Po in the road race.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wong_Kam_Po
-
I wonder if there is a better way of improving interest in a minority sport than showing it on national television?
Maybe a pub team putting on a display advertised by an A5 flyer on the Parish Notice Board would do it?
-
Patriotism is simply a way of claiming identity and shared experiences and aspirations. It is no more (and no more sinister) than supporting your local village team - for those of us that still live in villages. Nationalism, to me at least, is something else entirely with far more sinister overtones. As for the presence of 'military officers' (very unlikely - the officers will be in the bar!) at the flag ceremonies, with something like 16,000 soldiers, sailors and airmen doing the jobs that G4S fucked up on, it's quite likely you're going to see quite a few of them. And they're doing those jobs bloody well.
-
Yeah, and some people think there's no nationalism:
competitors compete in national teams (can anyone take part as an individual?),
"xxx xxx wins gold for name of country",
medal tables,
national anthems galore,
constant flag waving,
watching a sport you have no interest in just because someone from your country might win,
broadcasting an event you would never show on TV at any other time (coz it's a weird minority sport, worldwide) just because someone from your country might win,
get ecstatic cos the winner just happens to be from the same country as you,
get really disappointed just cos the winner just happens to be not from the same country as you,
it's a final, but we're not going to show it on TV, coz none of the people are from our country,
person comes second and they're on every national newspaper front page of their country,
etc
It's the Olympics.
Those are all patriotic actions.
-
Makes more sense to me to support those from similar class backgrounds.
-
Makes more sense to me to support those from similar class backgrounds.
I agree with you completely on that one Clarion.
In my case I support competitors based on body type. I'm tall, with a long body, long arms, relatively short legs and big hands and feet. Anyone with that morphology doing well is an inspiration to me.
I was particularly cheered by Indurain's message to Wiggins on the Tour, which mentioned their similar builds.
I was watching the Beach Volleyball last night, the women were in full tracksuits, which was better, as it gave more focus to their actual playing. I preferred the Czech blocker over the equally tall US blocker because her legs weren't as long.
I wonder to myself if it's a form of racism, although anyone of the same build, regardless of ethnicity, is 'one of us'. If I can see that they wouldn't be able to buy shoes on the high street they become part of 'Team Long'.
The 'Thorpedo' was the ultimate.
-
Makes more sense to me to support those from similar class backgrounds.
Why? What has class got to do with athletic ability or achievement? Surely the beauty of (most) sport is that it is class neutral; it depends mainly upon the ability, determination and application of the individual. We could no doubt go off on one about access, opportunity, international imbalances in funding etc, but those are not the fault or the responsibility of the competitors we're enjoying here and now. I acknowledge and celebrate the achievements and abilities of all the athletes - but I celebrate the British ones just a tad more!
-
On that basis , ESL ,I cheer on anyone with the shared affliction of ginger hair. Congrats to Daniel Purvis,GB bronze medal in gymnastics. :thumbsup:
Come on Ed Clancy.
-
On that basis , ESL ,I cheer on anyone with the shared affliction of ginger hair. Congrats to Daniel Purvis,GB bronze medal in gymnastics. :thumbsup:
Come on Ed Clancy.
That's my second order preference, if they're over six foot I prefer the redhead. If two are ginger I prefer the one with blond eyebrows. If all those criteria are satifisfied I prefer the Brit.
-
All my preferences and prejudices combine to make Ellen van Dijk the one I'm following. I've decided that she's a strawberry blonde, and therefore deserves to win the women's TT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPXvpd1k4W0&feature=related
-
Makes more sense to me to support those from similar class backgrounds.
Why? What has class got to do with athletic ability or achievement? Surely the beauty of (most) sport is that it is class neutral; it depends mainly upon the ability, determination and application of the individual. We could no doubt go off on one about access, opportunity, international imbalances in funding etc, but those are not the fault or the responsibility of the competitors we're enjoying here and now. I acknowledge and celebrate the achievements and abilities of all the athletes - but I celebrate the British ones just a tad more!
For all the reasons you cite - access, opportunity etc - it actually has something to do with athletic achievement, whereas that other accident of birth (nationality) has none whatsoever. So I hope your last clause came with a self-aware wink.
Doesn't matter, anyway. While I may laugh at the surfeit of surnames in the equestrian events, the majority of athletes are likely to be proletarian anyway, and so my natural internationalism comes into play.
-
As it stands right now, looking at the table for delivering Gold Medals:
Team GB: 0
Some guy in Plymouth*: 1
Go Plymouth!
*Ruta Meilutyte's coach
-
Patriotism is simply a way of claiming identity and shared experiences and aspirations. It is no more (and no more sinister) than supporting your local village team - for those of us that still live in villages. Nationalism, to me at least, is something else entirely with far more sinister overtones. As for the presence of 'military officers' (very unlikely - the officers will be in the bar!) at the flag ceremonies, with something like 16,000 soldiers, sailors and airmen doing the jobs that G4S fucked up on, it's quite likely you're going to see quite a few of them. And they're doing those jobs bloody well.
The picture that surprised me was of the weightlifting flag raise. Chinese flag high & centre, and 5/6 Chinese military in peaked hats standing to attention facing it, quite apart from any crowd - I think its a military flag honour guard. Not nice g4s replacement bored squaddies in pink camo milling about, or conmmissionaires but what appeared to be full on Chinese military as an integral part of their flag, and a clearly military reference point for the anthem etc.
It was most bizzarre and looked very much like something from Berlin 1930s.
It was posted by Gerald on another thread about Olympic experiences - I would copy it here if I knew how. Look at it yourself - its quite 'sinister' as you put it above.
Maybe its a photoshoppped image?
It looked quite
-
Tiggerrr, that's the Chinese, what did you expect?
They're hardly representative of the olympic experience (no matter how many medals they win!).
-
Makes more sense to me to support those from similar class backgrounds.
Why? What has class got to do with athletic ability or achievement? Surely the beauty of (most) sport is that it is class neutral; it depends mainly upon the ability, determination and application of the individual. We could no doubt go off on one about access, opportunity, international imbalances in funding etc, but those are not the fault or the responsibility of the competitors we're enjoying here and now. I acknowledge and celebrate the achievements and abilities of all the athletes - but I celebrate the British ones just a tad more!
For all the reasons you cite - access, opportunity etc - it actually has something to do with athletic achievement, whereas that other accident of birth (nationality) has none whatsoever. So I hope your last clause came with a self-aware wink.
Doesn't matter, anyway. While I may laugh at the surfeit of surnames in the equestrian events, the majority of athletes are likely to be proletarian anyway, and so my natural internationalism comes into play.
Your reasons do make sense, but why are you not a massive football fan? The vast majority of players are traditionally (and still are) from, shall we say, lower socio-economic groups. The most popular sport in the entire world - played by ordinary, often underprivileged people everywhere whilst the wealthy prat about on horses and yachts...
-
It just doesn't interest me - perhaps because I was never much good at it, beyond being a competent keeper and a defender with a good tactical brain. Rugby league, on the other hand...
-
Tiggerrr, that's the Chinese, what did you expect?
They're hardly representative of the olympic experience (no matter how many medals they win!).
I haven't been watching - do they militarise all their flag ceremoniesin that way? I assumed it was a one off. Its deeply offensive if they do and I cant understand how it can be permitted. Do any other nations do that sort of thing?
Then it occurs to me that the sight of so many of our soldiers in the audience in uniform, because they've been given free seats to fill the gaps, might be interpreted quite differently, if one was for instance Argentinian. Maybe surrounding the Chinese cymbal bashers with squaddies would be a good tactic.
-
The picture that surprised me was of the weightlifting flag raise. Chinese flag high & centre, and 5/6 Chinese military in peaked hats standing to attention facing it, quite apart from any crowd - I think its a military flag honour guard. Not nice g4s replacement bored squaddies in pink camo milling about, or conmmissionaires but what appeared to be full on Chinese military as an integral part of their flag, and a clearly military reference point for the anthem etc.
It was most bizzarre and looked very much like something from Berlin 1930s.
It was posted by Gerald on another thread about Olympic experiences - I would copy it here if I knew how. Look at it yourself - its quite 'sinister' as you put it above.
Maybe its a photoshoppped image?
It looked quite
They were UK Armed services in full dress uniform, not Chinese, which is why I was surprised.
-
Patriotism is simply a way of claiming identity and shared experiences and aspirations. It is no more (and no more sinister) than supporting your local village team - for those of us that still live in villages. Nationalism, to me at least, is something else entirely with far more sinister overtones. As for the presence of 'military officers' (very unlikely - the officers will be in the bar!) at the flag ceremonies, with something like 16,000 soldiers, sailors and airmen doing the jobs that G4S fucked up on, it's quite likely you're going to see quite a few of them. And they're doing those jobs bloody well.
The picture that surprised me was of the weightlifting flag raise. Chinese flag high & centre, and 5/6 Chinese military in peaked hats standing to attention facing it, quite apart from any crowd - I think its a military flag honour guard. Not nice g4s replacement bored squaddies in pink camo milling about, or conmmissionaires but what appeared to be full on Chinese military as an integral part of their flag, and a clearly military reference point for the anthem etc.
It was most bizzarre and looked very much like something from Berlin 1930s.
It was posted by Gerald on another thread about Olympic experiences - I would copy it here if I knew how. Look at it yourself - its quite 'sinister' as you put it above.
Maybe its a photoshoppped image?
It looked quite
Chinese military? Sorry, but no way! They are Royal Air Force personnel. They are wearing their standard No1 uniform, as is appropriate for acknowledging the flags of other nations in a formal setting.
-
They are Royal Air Force personnel. They are wearing their standard No1 uniform, as is appropriate for acknowledging the flags of other nations in a formal setting.
Sadly, this is the sort of thing branded as 'nationalism' by some people.
-
It's militarist, but not nationalist. Different problem ;)
-
It's militarist, but not nationalist. Different problem ;)
I know what you mean, as I'm as anti-militarist as any, but the huge number of weapon-based events shows the root of much of the Olympic ethos. The Modern Pentathlon, for instance, is explicitly about the skills needed by a military despatch rider, and many competitors across the games come from a military background.
I'm the kind of person who views the scouting movement as a little too nationalistic, so I'm by definition a bit weird. I'd be happier with a Woodcraft Folk equivalent to the Olympic Jamboree. But I'm not going to attempt to deny the mainstream the pleasure of a mainstream festival because I tend to fringe views.
Meanwhile I'm amused by the elevation of Bradley to Messiah status, he's Brian, from the Lfe of Brian at heart. I wonder what his contrarian reaction to his followers will be. Perhaps a sudden conversion to Eurovision hits, I might do a medley of his greatest moments to 'Making Your Mind Up' by Bucks Fizz.
-
A Woodcraft Folk Olympics would surely include spoon whittling, which would probably give YACF a couple of medallists.
-
It's militarist, but not nationalist. Different problem ;)
I know what you mean, as I'm as anti-militarist as any, but the huge number of weapon-based events shows the root of much of the Olympic ethos. The Modern Pentathlon, for instance, is explicitly about the skills needed by a military despatch rider, and many competitors across the games come from a military background.
There go the shooting, archery, martial arts and a sizeable chunk of the athletics events, up to and including the Marathon.
-
Makes more sense to me to support those from similar class backgrounds.
Why? What has class got to do with athletic ability or achievement? Surely the beauty of (most) sport is that it is class neutral; it depends mainly upon the ability, determination and application of the individual. We could no doubt go off on one about access, opportunity, international imbalances in funding etc, but those are not the fault or the responsibility of the competitors we're enjoying here and now. I acknowledge and celebrate the achievements and abilities of all the athletes - but I celebrate the British ones just a tad more!
For all the reasons you cite - access, opportunity etc - it actually has something to do with athletic achievement, whereas that other accident of birth (nationality) has none whatsoever. So I hope your last clause came with a self-aware wink.
Doesn't matter, anyway. While I may laugh at the surfeit of surnames in the equestrian events, the majority of athletes are likely to be proletarian anyway, and so my natural internationalism comes into play.
Your reasons do make sense, but why are you not a massive football fan? The vast majority of players are traditionally (and still are) from, shall we say, lower socio-economic groups. The most popular sport in the entire world - played by ordinary, often underprivileged people everywhere whilst the wealthy prat about on horses and yachts...
I'm not sure that class makes any more or less sense as a reason to support a particular athlete than nationality. The reasons of opportunity, access and support all make sense, but they vary by nationality too; and the combination of class and nationality means that whereas most athletes from rich nations may be 'proletarian' those from poorer countries are more likely to be 'bourgeois' (is that the term? ;))
It's an interesting point about football though. Cricket, supposedly India's national game, is dominated by upper castes (as are rugby - union, I don't think there's any league there - and cycling), go to the poor areas of town and the game you see kids playing in the street is football. But visit the pubs and bars in the city centre and there are many middle class Indians wearing Arsenal and Chelsea shirts. The only Indian medal winner in London so far (air rifle) actually has a name indicating an upper merchant-administrative caste, to which the PM also belongs.
Myself, if I've no other reason to prefer one competitor over another, I like to support the one with the nicest shirt or from the country with the prettiest flag!
-
A Woodcraft Folk Olympics would surely include spoon whittling, which would probably give YACF a couple of medallists.
I'd be up for the boundary management triathlon; fencing,walling and hedging. There's be 26 pages of closely worded debate to decide if there should be seperate men's and wimmin's classes.
I'd be in favour, as I could compete in the Men's and Heather could compete in the Wimmin's, there's more chance that way.
-
DSW should be in the cultural olympiad. No question.
-
DSW should be in the cultural olympiad. No question.
Waller friends have been complaining on Facebook that Boyle's Teletubby Land/ Shire was a bit DSW light, us hedgers definitely shaded them there.
-
May have taken a wee bit longer to strike ;)
-
May have taken a wee bit longer to strike ;)
They didn't seem to have much problem with those chimneys.
-
Ah, but chimneys are here today gone tomorrow, whereas a properly built wall...
-
Ah, but chimneys are here today gone tomorrow, whereas a properly built wall...
The chimneys that have survived are now worth quite a lot as mobile phone masts. There's one round the corner from us.
It's one of the things that inspired my letter to the Guardian. At some point Boyle should have had riggers shinning up those chimneys to equip them for 4G, so we can update Facebook on the move.
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Tardy+Gate&hl=en&ll=53.726121,-2.695734&spn=0.004786,0.007735&sll=51.096623,3.735352&sspn=20.866388,31.68457&t=h&hnear=Tardy+Gate,+Lancashire,+United+Kingdom&z=17&layer=c&cbll=53.726121,-2.695734&panoid=udNWGRGEpR8VdnUk26hSgg&cbp=12,5.93,,1,-14.48
-
On that basis , ESL ,I cheer on anyone with the shared affliction of ginger hair.
My colleague's mother-in-law's cat has had four kittens and she's been able to find homes for 3 of them. The one left over is a ginger tabby. Would you like it? Poor ginger kitty, rejected by everyone. :'(
-
On that basis , ESL ,I cheer on anyone with the shared affliction of ginger hair.
My colleague's mother-in-law's cat has had four kittens and she's been able to find homes for 3 of them. The one left over is a ginger tabby. Would you like it? Poor ginger kitty, rejected by everyone. :'(
My Dad had a Ginger Tom which was prone to bringing weasels home to 'play' with. Approach with caution.
-
A Woodcraft Folk Olympics would surely include spoon whittling, which would probably give YACF a couple of medallists.
I'd be up for the boundary management triathlon; fencing,walling and hedging.
I'd be up for the follow-up event: tearing down the boundaries.
I'd hope to medal in seizing the means of production too.
:)
-
A Woodcraft Folk Olympics would surely include spoon whittling, which would probably give YACF a couple of medallists.
I'd be up for the boundary management triathlon; fencing,walling and hedging.
I thought the Woodcraft folk didn't like sword fighting ;)
-
Makes more sense to me to support those from similar class backgrounds.
Why? What has class got to do with athletic ability or achievement? Surely the beauty of (most) sport is that it is class neutral; it depends mainly upon the ability, determination and application of the individual. We could no doubt go off on one about access, opportunity, international imbalances in funding etc, but those are not the fault or the responsibility of the competitors we're enjoying here and now. I acknowledge and celebrate the achievements and abilities of all the athletes - but I celebrate the British ones just a tad more!
For all the reasons you cite - access, opportunity etc - it actually has something to do with athletic achievement, whereas that other accident of birth (nationality) has none whatsoever. So I hope your last clause came with a self-aware wink.
Doesn't matter, anyway. While I may laugh at the surfeit of surnames in the equestrian events, the majority of athletes are likely to be proletarian anyway, and so my natural internationalism comes into play.
I've just heard that half of all GB's medal winners in 2008 were privately educated. So that might be true worldwide, but not in every case. Kind of ties in with your points of access, opportunity and support; and contradicts my thought that rich-country athletes were more likely to be working class and poor-country competitors rich!
-
Did they pay for that education though? Millfield School for example offer sports scholarships if you are good enough.
-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19109724
No surprise that all of the equestrian team were privately educated, but with the exception of bussing horses into the inner cities what can you do about it?
-
... the whole concept of nation states in this postmodern blah instead. ;)
I'm looking forward to Microsoft v Apple in the Greco-Roman Wrestling...
Not the Pankration? ;D
-
competitors compete in national teams (can anyone take part as an individual?),
AFAIK only if they come from a country which isn't participating in the Olympics, or they're stateless. There are four unaffiliated athletes in the current Olympics, IIRC. It's a channel for letting athletes who meet the qualifying standards compete if there's no national organisation to enter via, not for athletes who wish to disassociate themselves from their national organisation. Though I suppose if you really want to disassociate yourself from nationalism you can renounce your citizenship.
-
The Olympics can invite people. I think when Seb Coe didn't qualify in the latter stages of his career, the head of the IOC was planning on just inviting him to compete*
*this is from my recollection, I may have just dreamt it
-
I'm no more proud of being British than I am of being female, straight, 5'6" or a Scorpio. I didn't achieve any of those things by my own efforts, it's just an accident of birth. I'm very proud of some things that Britain has achieved, I'm ashamed and disgusted by other things Britain has done, before my lifetime and during. But when it comes to international competition, why wouldn't I support my home country's competitors?
I don't understand this need to be so negative about supporting Britain. I bet other countries would laugh themselves sick at the angst some people seem to have about supporting our own competitors.
-
competitors compete in national teams (can anyone take part as an individual?),
AFAIK only if they come from a country which isn't participating in the Olympics, or they're stateless. There are four unaffiliated athletes in the current Olympics, IIRC. It's a channel for letting athletes who meet the qualifying standards compete if there's no national organisation to enter via, not for athletes who wish to disassociate themselves from their national organisation. Though I suppose if you really want to disassociate yourself from nationalism you can renounce your citizenship.
I'm fairly sure some countries don't permit anyone to renounce citizenship. Once in, you can't check out even if you leave. Like Hotel Ainrofilac.
-
I believe Greece is one.
-
I'm no more proud of being British than I am of being female, straight, 5'6" or a Scorpio. I didn't achieve any of those things by my own efforts, it's just an accident of birth. I'm very proud of some things that Britain has achieved, I'm ashamed and disgusted by other things Britain has done, before my lifetime and during. But when it comes to international competition, why wouldn't I support my home country's competitors?
I don't understand this need to be so negative about supporting Britain. I bet other countries would laugh themselves sick at the angst some people seem to have about supporting our own competitors.
Spot on.
(Even the Germans, after decades of post-war soul-searching and a reluctance to appear over-enthusiastic in support for their team(s), would find this odd).
-
You can always rely on Mozza for some positivity:
http://news.sky.com/story/969426/morrissey-olympic-spirit-like-nazi-germany
"I am unable to watch the Olympics due to the blustering jingoism that drenches the event. Has England ever been quite so foul with patriotism?"
Great stuff ;D
-
Interesting and (as far as I know) inaccurate use of the word "empirical"! (Gareth may be able to shed light on this.) Can this be the same fey youth who used to throw innocent daffodils to be trampled under the feet of an indiscriminate baying mob?!
He does have some points, though, especially about the branding thing and the fascistic power of the corporations over products and the very use of the words olympic, 2012 and London.
-
I think Morrissey has seriously misjudged what the Olympics have achieved. The face of the olympics is a mixed-race woman, last Saturday the nation's heroes were (and still are) that mixed-race woman and a black ex-asylum-seeker migrant muslim man. The BNP/EDL/UKIP/Aidan Burleys etc. have been driven back into their holes by this celebration of a united multi-cultural Britain. I don't see any of that as 'nationalism' as Morrissey paints it. In fact it has been gratifying that politicians have been unable to 'claim' the London Olympics for themselves because the British people have claimed them first.
Sadly in a couple of weeks the football season starts, and much of this will be forgotten.
-
Good points, Andy.
-
Morrissey's a knobber. He's always been a knobber and he probably always will be a knobber.
*not a Morrissey fan*
-
Morrissey's a knobber. He's always been a knobber and he probably always will be a knobber.
*not a Morrissey fan*
Yup.
-
I think Morrissey has seriously misjudged what the Olympics have achieved. The face of the olympics is a mixed-race woman, last Saturday the nation's heroes were (and still are) that mixed-race woman and a black ex-asylum-seeker migrant muslim man. The BNP/EDL/UKIP/Aidan Burleys etc. have been driven back into their holes by this celebration of a united multi-cultural Britain. I don't see any of that as 'nationalism' as Morrissey paints it. In fact it has been gratifying that politicians have been unable to 'claim' the London Olympics for themselves because the British people have claimed them first.
Sadly in a couple of weeks the football season starts, and much of this will be forgotten.
^ This. :thumbsup:
Morrissey's a knobber. He's always been a knobber and he probably always will be a knobber.
*not a Morrissey fan*
^ And this. :thumbsup:
-
I am pleased that we have done so well in so many different sports and proud that we have won so many medals. I'm afraid that rapidly diminishes as soon as the national anthem starts playing and "God Save the Queen" belts out. We desperately need a more inclusive anthem.
-
I am quite happy that I can now fly a union flag without people thinking I am a BNP member or a football hooligan. Great to reclaim the flag.
-
I think Morrissey has seriously misjudged what the Olympics have achieved. The face of the olympics is a mixed-race woman, last Saturday the nation's heroes were (and still are) that mixed-race woman and a black ex-asylum-seeker migrant muslim man. The BNP/EDL/UKIP/Aidan Burleys etc. have been driven back into their holes by this celebration of a united multi-cultural Britain. I don't see any of that as 'nationalism' as Morrissey paints it. In fact it has been gratifying that politicians have been unable to 'claim' the London Olympics for themselves because the British people have claimed them first.
Sadly in a couple of weeks the football season starts, and much of this will be forgotten.
+1
(http://cloggie.org/pictures/wissewords/daily-mail-olympics.jpg)
-
Though I suppose if you really want to disassociate yourself from nationalism you can renounce your citizenship
This is the only response to this thread and the people on this forum who think that they are above nationalism and who have no interest in being patriotic. You have the whole world to choose a country from, please feel free to do so and have a nice trip.
-
^ I've chosen the land of Rabbie Burns and Chris Hoy
-
Right so British then :demon:
-
I am pleased that we have done so well in so many different sports and proud that we have won so many medals. I'm afraid that rapidly diminishes as soon as the national anthem starts playing and "God Save the Queen" belts out. We desperately need a more inclusive anthem.
Well, it's mostly about keeping us safe from nameless enemies except for this verse...
Not in this land alone,
But be God's mercies known,
From shore to shore!
Lord make the nations see,
That men should brothers be,
And form one family,
The wide world ov'er
... so I'm not sure how more inclusive it could get.
-
It's quite easy, you just kill the sound for the anthem.
-
I really don't like the arrangement they've used for the national anthem. Just leave it be
FFS please...
-
Stop swearing!
-
I am so sorry :-[
-
;D
-
Though I suppose if you really want to disassociate yourself from nationalism you can renounce your citizenship
This is the only response to this thread and the people on this forum who think that they are above nationalism and who have no interest in being patriotic. You have the whole world to choose a country from, please feel free to do so and have a nice trip.
I wonder (seriously) what the situation is for Olympic athletes with dual nationality. I suppose that they have to choose one nation and stick with that, but I think it would be more in keeping with the proclaimed spirit of Olympic internationality if you were allowed to pick and choose - just as you might choose to spend summer in Alaska and winter in Spain, or to speak one language at work and another at home, and so on. If you were lucky, talented and determined enough to qualify in two sports and be picked for both (or more!) countries, I think it would be wonderful to be able to compete in rowing for Mauritius and triple jump for the Gambia, or whatever.
-
I am pleased that we have done so well in so many different sports and proud that we have won so many medals. I'm afraid that rapidly diminishes as soon as the national anthem starts playing and "God Save the Queen" belts out. We desperately need a more inclusive anthem.
Well, it's mostly about keeping us safe from nameless enemies except for this verse...
Not in this land alone,
But be God's mercies known,
From shore to shore!
Lord make the nations see,
That men should brothers be,
And form one family,
The wide world ov'er
... so I'm not sure how more inclusive it could get.
In case you're not being ironic, that verse alone excludes:
1) Atheists and agnostics
2) 50% of the World's population
3) Anyone who doesn't agree with the British, Anglo-Saxon view of how things should be.
4) Republicans
So, I wouldn't say it was all that inclusive. The first verse lauds one person, in her position by fate, over all others, which makes it pretty exclusive in my book.
-
I am pleased that we have done so well in so many different sports and proud that we have won so many medals. I'm afraid that rapidly diminishes as soon as the national anthem starts playing and "God Save the Queen" belts out. We desperately need a more inclusive anthem.
Well, it's mostly about keeping us safe from nameless enemies except for this verse...
Not in this land alone,
But be God's mercies known,
From shore to shore!
Lord make the nations see,
That men should brothers be,
And form one family,
The wide world ov'er
... so I'm not sure how more inclusive it could get.
In case you're not being ironic, that verse alone excludes:
1) Atheists and agnostics
2) 50% of the World's population
3) Anyone who doesn't agree with the British, Anglo-Saxon view of how things should be.
4) Republicans
So, I wouldn't say it was all that inclusive.
1) Atheists and agnostics
- We are officially a christian counry (albeit an incredibly tolerant one)
2) 50% of the World's population
- "men" is generally accepted to have a flexible meaning, especially in poetry/song.
3) Anyone who doesn't agree with the British, Anglo-Saxon view of how things should be.
- It's the British anthem. It's gonna be pro-British
4) Republicans
- We're not a republic.
-
I agree with MattC, even though he didn't give me any chips at Watlington.
But who cares what those lines mean? Nobody knows any more than the first verse anyway!
-
For the few events I have seen (just cycling) I simply exit/switch off as soon as they've mounted the podium. No need for anthems or flags in my opinion.