Author Topic: + size women want their own clothing range designed  (Read 50316 times)

wafflycat

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #50 on: 14 August, 2010, 03:58:06 pm »
No-one is arguing with the physics. however, there seems to have a lack of willingness to understand that the human body is not a simple machine, it is complex and how one individual's body deals with 'calories in' is not exactly the same an a.n.other's.

Biggsy

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #51 on: 14 August, 2010, 04:05:46 pm »
Anyone who closely follows a diet plan is strong willed, and it can take virtually a supernatural amount of willpower to eat less than your mind is craving.  That doesn't stop the fact that weight will be lost if fewer calories are consumed.  Again I'm not saying it's simple to manage or that's it's the same for everyone.
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wafflycat

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #52 on: 14 August, 2010, 04:14:00 pm »
Anyone who closely follows a diet plan is strong willed, and it can take virtually a supernatural amount of willpower to eat less than your mind is craving.  That doesn't stop the fact that weight will be lost if fewer calories are consumed.  Again I'm not saying it's simple to manage or that's it's the same for everyone.

Tell you what, why don't you come & check over what I eat & you can tell me what this simple-minded fatty is deluding herself about and could be doing better to lose weight & stay healthy whislt doing so. Because obviously, I, like so many of we fatties, obviously hasn't a clue.

her_welshness

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #53 on: 14 August, 2010, 04:22:22 pm »
Anyone who closely follows a diet plan is strong willed, and it can take virtually a supernatural amount of willpower to eat less than your mind is craving.  That doesn't stop the fact that weight will be lost if fewer calories are consumed.  Again I'm not saying it's simple to manage or that's it's the same for everyone.

No, for some people the diet-plan will work through sheer will power.

But, there are some people who may have a range of medical conditions which physically will prevent them from losing the weight, as there are for people who are desperate to put on weight.  I think this is what wafflycat is trying to get across to you.

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #54 on: 14 August, 2010, 04:24:51 pm »
Interesting discussion here, and demonstrates also just how emotive this issue is to both ends of the spectrum of opinion.

I can't help feeling though that the 'clothes' issue here should not really be linked to the 'society view of obesity' issue. The manufacture, sales and marketing of clothing is all market-driven and profit-driven. When a business decides what sizing to adopt and what sizes to offer their clothing ranges in they are not thinking ' we must make sure we offer a fair range so that no one feels left out or discriminated against', they are thinking 'how can we sell the most garments/ make the most profit'. They are probably basing their size range choice on what in their experience has sold best for them in the past, and the quantities that the shops selling their stuff order. I have a feeling that the underlying reasons for the smallest and largest sizes being harder to find is simply that there are easier profits to be made selling large quantities of 'average' garments, with fewer unsold items left for the shops to get rid of at the end of the season. The shops are really not interested in providing us all with a 'service', they just want our money but without the increased costs and risk involved in stocking a wider range of sizes.

I was shopping for jeans for my 16 year old son yesterday, we came home empty handed because his favoured brand of jeans is 'Next' and they don't stock his 30 Long size in their stores because too few people buy it. I don 't think they have it in for skinny 6'2" 16 year olds, they just have found that the profit made from my once a year visit to buy him new jeans isn't enough to justify stocking them.

I guess my point (if I even have one!) is why there appear to be SO many people looking for the larger sizes, and yet the shops haven't cottoned onto this unfulfilled sector of their market. I hope the reason behind this isn't a sinister one ... such as the stocking of a garment in very large sizes damaging the profitable brand image for their average-size buyer who is their bread and butter. If that were true then it would indeed indicate some very messed up thinking about weight in our culture.  :-\

citoyen

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #55 on: 14 August, 2010, 04:28:01 pm »
We fatties must just love being in denial about being fat...

This is precisely the problem for some people. My boss, for example, is constantly moaning about how hard it is for him to lose weight. If you ask him, he eats healthily - ie he has a salad for lunch (plus a bag of crisps). And he does "regular" exercise (ie once a month).

(Note that I'm not saying this necessarily applies to you.)
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wafflycat

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #56 on: 14 August, 2010, 04:37:34 pm »
We fatties must just love being in denial about being fat...

This is precisely the problem for some people. My boss, for example, is constantly moaning about how hard it is for him to lose weight. If you ask him, he eats healthily - ie he has a salad for lunch (plus a bag of crisps). And he does "regular" exercise (ie once a month).

(Note that I'm not saying this necessarily applies to you.)

Indeed. It is precisely the problem for some people. And it's precisely not the problem for some people  :)

wafflycat

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #57 on: 14 August, 2010, 04:38:24 pm »
Anyone who closely follows a diet plan is strong willed, and it can take virtually a supernatural amount of willpower to eat less than your mind is craving.  That doesn't stop the fact that weight will be lost if fewer calories are consumed.  Again I'm not saying it's simple to manage or that's it's the same for everyone.

No, for some people the diet-plan will work through sheer will power.

But, there are some people who may have a range of medical conditions which physically will prevent them from losing the weight, as there are for people who are desperate to put on weight.  I think this is what wafflycat is trying to get across to you.

That'll do quite nicely for now.

Biggsy

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #58 on: 14 August, 2010, 04:43:47 pm »
Anyone who closely follows a diet plan is strong willed, and it can take virtually a supernatural amount of willpower to eat less than your mind is craving.  That doesn't stop the fact that weight will be lost if fewer calories are consumed.  Again I'm not saying it's simple to manage or that's it's the same for everyone.

No, for some people the diet-plan will work through sheer will power.

But, there are some people who may have a range of medical conditions which physically will prevent them from losing the weight, as there are for people who are desperate to put on weight.  I think this is what wafflycat is trying to get across to you.

No medical condition can prevent someone from loosing weight.  It can however be difficult/impossible for some people to loose weight and yet consume the nutrients they need to be healthy.  I already said as much in reply #44.

Again, I'm sorry I've upset you Wafflycat.  Please accept I'm sincere about that.  Again, I'm interested in discussing the subject in general rather than criticising individuals.  I think it's fair to say the majority of overweight people could loose weight healthily if they want to and if they have some help.  Isn't that fair?

It links to the original topic in that perhaps people can be encouraged to loose weight while being able to have good clothing, rather than being forced to loose weight to have it (by the larger sizes not being available).
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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #59 on: 14 August, 2010, 05:09:21 pm »
Diet  is difficult to control because there are so many social implications.

When I moved over to the UK I lost quite a lot of weight simply because I did not have appetite for the kind of stuff that was on sale at my local Tesco. It took me months to adapt despite not having the choice to do otherwise. That is purely cultural and made me suffer at the time but I see the opposite attitude from some of my daughter friends when they come at our place for supper and won't touch a vegetable or say "I don't like stuff which is green". My daughter also sometimes comes up with weird statements from school such as "Bread is unhealthy". Of course eating too much bread make you overweight but one still need calories and there is nothing wrong with eating bread.

The big food corporations will engineer their products so that people buy them again and again because it makes business sense to do so. They will also use as much as possible cheap stuff such as salt and water to maximise their profits. Bearing in mind how difficult  it is to switch diet,  understanding why so many people find it impossible to control their weight is easy.

However, laws of physics apply to the human body despite its complexity; some people can eat more than others because of their metabolism but whatever you do you can't put on weight unless you eat too much for your size/metabolism/physical exercise.

 
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wafflycat

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #60 on: 14 August, 2010, 05:14:40 pm »
Anyone who closely follows a diet plan is strong willed, and it can take virtually a supernatural amount of willpower to eat less than your mind is craving.  That doesn't stop the fact that weight will be lost if fewer calories are consumed.  Again I'm not saying it's simple to manage or that's it's the same for everyone.

No, for some people the diet-plan will work through sheer will power.

But, there are some people who may have a range of medical conditions which physically will prevent them from losing the weight, as there are for people who are desperate to put on weight.  I think this is what wafflycat is trying to get across to you.

No medical condition can prevent someone from loosing weight.  It can however be difficult/impossible for some people to loose weight and yet consume the nutrients they need to be healthy.  I already said as much in reply #44.

Again, I'm sorry I've upset you Wafflycat.  Please accept I'm sincere about that.  Again, I'm interested in discussing the subject in general rather than criticising individuals.  I think it's fair to say the majority of overweight people could loose weight healthily if they want to and if they have some help.  Isn't that fair?

It links to the original topic in that perhaps people can be encouraged to loose weight while being able to have good clothing, rather than being forced to loose weight to have it (by the larger sizes not being available).

Apology accepted. But you do have some misunderstandings about weight issues. Example: a neighbour's child put on a vast amount of weight whilst on steriods for a medical problem. The weight he put on really was a huge amount of weight. This was without eating any more. Amongst other things, he was retaining a lot of fluid which made him balloon up. Nothing whatsoever to do with overeating or simply needing to eat less. Came off the medications when his health issue was sorted and his weight returned to normal: without dieting.

The majority of overweight  could lose weight healthily? Who knows? We really don't know for sure. If it was as simple as pure calorie reduction, then I doubt we'd have such a big weight problem. Just one of the complicating fatcors is that food is tied up in all sorts of social and cultural aspects of life that it isn't simple. A minor example is one I can give by direct experience. Try eating out at a social gathering when you have to watch every single thing you eat. At a restaurant with friends, I scoured the menu to find the healthiest option. I asked about ingredients, I asked for no sauces.. no oils.. no alcohol and made the best choice I could. Yet I was made to feel a social pariah by sticking to my guns about eating healthily and carefully. I was given the usual "Oh go on, one night won't do you any harm!" Well actually, it will, I've learnt the hard way that for me, one night will do me harm. Add into that the experessions of horror on the other guests when I was asking the waiter about stuff *for my choice*. I was not inflicting my healthy choice on any other peron in the group, yet I was made out to feel as if I was making a 'fuss' Yet if I had eaten unhealthily, I'd have got the 'you only have to eat less' thrown at me (it happens). perhaps we fatties aren't supposed to have a social life until we get to a socially acceptable size? Should we hide away out of sight as we're socially unacceptable? Try to do something about weight and in public we're making a fuss, "Oh go on... one won't harm" as the box of biscuits is passed around. Don't make the effort publicly and we get harangued about lack of control and not being able to eat less, or being unhealthy, a drain on NHS resources..

It used to be smokers, and now it's the overweight. What next? Could it be those exercise junkies who are so addicted to exercise that they go out and get injured, and that's a drain on the NHS... just saying that as an illustration as we all have health faults, we all have or do something that someone else considers a vice, a bad habit, a disgusting trait..

There are certainly adverse medical issues around being overweight. And there are adverse medical issues at the other end of the spectrum. What is seen as a 'healthy' weight is largely a cultural issue. Back in the past and even now around various parts of the globe, being what we think of as fat is seen as a sign of health and prosperity. Currently, in the west, in times of plenty, being *thin* is seen as healthy and desirable.

Ideal weight and proportions is as much cultural as medical.






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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #61 on: 14 August, 2010, 05:24:47 pm »
Try eating out at a social gathering when you have to watch every single thing you eat. At a restaurant with friends, I scoured the menu to find the healthiest option. I asked about ingredients, I asked for no sauces.. no oils.. no alcohol and made the best choice I could. Yet I was made to feel a social pariah by sticking to my guns about eating healthily and carefully. I was given the usual "Oh go on, one night won't do you any harm!" Well actually, it will, I've learnt the hard way that for me, one night will do me harm. Add into that the experessions of horror on the other guests when I was asking the waiter about stuff *for my choice*. I was not inflicting my healthy choice on any other peron in the group, yet I was made out to feel as if I was making a 'fuss' Yet if I had eaten unhealthily, I'd have got the 'you only have to eat less' thrown at me (it happens).
In your case this was a justified "fuss" ie it wasn't really fuss at all, you had a valid reason. But the problem is that many people who do this are "making a fuss" and so all get tainted by the same brush. It's a bit like people seeing a few RLJers on bikes and then calling all cyclists "lycra louts".
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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #62 on: 14 August, 2010, 05:45:47 pm »
It is not a simple matter of eat less and move more and weight will come off as any sufferer of hypothyroidism will testify. Neither careful calorie counting nor constant exercise will make the slightest difference. There are also numerous other metabolic conditions that prevent people from losing weight.

hellymedic

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #63 on: 14 August, 2010, 05:54:49 pm »
Getting back to the original topic, I wish things were made in the right shape or me, as well as size.
I'm not the first pear-shaped woman on the globe and it's supposedly healthy to have a low waist to hip ratio.

M&S has increased the waist size fitting for most women's sizes by nearly six inches (15cm) since the 1960s. (A size 16 in 1967 had a 28" waist and now is 84cm or 33.6".)  This represents a huge amount of unhealthy intra-abdominal fat for much of the population and major fitting problems for me.

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #64 on: 14 August, 2010, 05:56:41 pm »

Apology accepted. But you do have some misunderstandings about weight issues. Example: a neighbour's child put on a vast amount of weight whilst on steriods for a medical problem. The weight he put on really was a huge amount of weight. This was without eating any more. Amongst other things, he was retaining a lot of fluid which made him balloon up. Nothing whatsoever to do with overeating or simply needing to eat less. Came off the medications when his health issue was sorted and his weight returned to normal: without dieting.

Similarly, some women put on a lot of weight when they take certain brands of contraception without changing anything about their diet or lifestyle, and lose it again once they come off it without changing anything else.

I know I'm fat because I eat too much and exercise too little. Right now I don't care enough to do anything about cutting down my food intake - I love food. I was going to BMF last year until about February this year and lost a stone, but then injured my Achilles and had to stop. It's still not better, I can't go back. If I thought about it a bit more deeply, I know there are psychological issues around my weight gain and lack of effort to lose weight which I'm not going to bore you with.

Some people might argue that excessive weight gain - and loss - is a form of self harm, in the same way that cutting is. It's a very complicated issue.
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Biggsy

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #65 on: 14 August, 2010, 06:25:35 pm »
I know I'm just being pedantic now, but I can't resist....  No matter what medical condition you have, or what pills you're taking, consume vastly fewer calories and you will loose weight.  Eating nothing at all is the clear illustration of that.  Then you WILL get thinner, while you can live at all.  In some cases people should eat less than they did before when they develop a condition that would mean weight gain if they continued with their usual diet.

But, as I've already accepted, it's not healthy for everyone to do that.  I think the interesting question is what proportion of the population that applies to.  I don't remember the figure, but I've heard medical experts say it's only a very small percentage of overweight people who can't safely loose weight for medical reasons.

Anyway, it's an interesting question about whether making large clothing sizes encourages people to stay large.  As much as I want people to be discouraged from being overweight (when reasonably possible), it's going too far to not make larger sizes, IMO.  That would be too mean, and, as well as to people with relevant medical conditions, it's unfair to people who are just big rather than fat!
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wafflycat

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #66 on: 14 August, 2010, 06:36:25 pm »
I know I'm just being pedantic now, but I can't resist....  

Then please do try to resist, or otherwise you may well find that you are read as being offensive even when you say you're not meaning to be.

Zoidburg

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #67 on: 14 August, 2010, 06:43:04 pm »
Fashion fascism does not help.

If have met a depressing amount of women who are perfectly in proportion and attractive but say maybe a size 16+ and they have convinced themself they need to lose weight.

Some designers seem to think the ideal figure resembles a very slim young man in a dress...

hellymedic

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #68 on: 14 August, 2010, 06:45:04 pm »
I don't think the availability of larger clothing would have much effect on people's eating behaviour. Not being able to fit into size n might have some effect though.
Eating and weight loss issues are very complex.
If someone seriously wishes to lose a significant amount of weight, they need to commit to several months of undereating followed by lifelong food habit changes. This takes colossal motivation.
Initial weight loss can be relatively easy; dealing with The Hunger afterwards is IME another matter.
ICBA to try. My weight is basically rock steady (maybe 2kg more than in 1980). Trying to change it has never had any lasting effect. I don't want to balloon but I don't relish The Hunger. Keeping weight steady may be healthier than yo-yoing and being 10% over is unikely to cause major medical problems.

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #69 on: 14 August, 2010, 06:47:17 pm »
It is difficult to know how widespread the incidence of 'conditions' is in the population.

With the massive growth in car use in the 70s and 80s and the explosion of food types and quantities available 7 days a week, sometimes 24 hours a day, there has been a huge change in the Western human lifestyle. This has had implications for the number of calories burned and the availability of calories to consume. I would be astonished if this was not the major factor at work behind the growing of the population.
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Zoidburg

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #70 on: 14 August, 2010, 06:49:30 pm »
It is difficult to know how widespread the incidence of 'conditions' is in the population.

With the massive growth in car use in the 70s and 80s and the explosion of food types and quantities available 7 days a week, sometimes 24 hours a day, there has been a huge change in the Western human lifestyle. This has had implications for the number of calories burned and the availability of calories to consume. I would be astonished if this was not the major factor at work behind the growing of the population.
Look at second and third generation south east asians families in the US.

The lifestyle and diet changed to the US one and they got bigger/fatter.

hellymedic

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #71 on: 14 August, 2010, 06:59:07 pm »
It is difficult to know how widespread the incidence of 'conditions' is in the population.

With the massive growth in car use in the 70s and 80s and the explosion of food types and quantities available 7 days a week, sometimes 24 hours a day, there has been a huge change in the Western human lifestyle. This has had implications for the number of calories burned and the availability of calories to consume. I would be astonished if this was not the major factor at work behind the growing of the population.

I believe the motor car is probably responsible for the waistline inflation I referred to above. M&S make their clothes to fit their typical customers

Biggsy

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #72 on: 14 August, 2010, 07:07:12 pm »
I know I'm just being pedantic now, but I can't resist.... 

Then please do try to resist, or otherwise you may well find that you are read as being offensive even when you say you're not meaning to be.

No I can't always resist when people say things that aren't true.

If you read ALL of what I wrote, please, then hopefully you'll see that I'm trying to be fair.
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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #73 on: 14 August, 2010, 07:54:05 pm »
There are suggestions that for *some* people, weight gain can be the result of a viral infection. It's thought one or more of the adenoviruses may be implicated in weight gain in some people. Indeed there has been one case publicised where a set of identical twins were studied. Although identical twins, one was slim and one was considerably fatter. The fatter one tested positive for exposure to a particular adenovirus thought to be implicated in weight gain.

There was a strain of thought quite recently that Type 2 diabetes might be triggered by a virus when very young.

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #74 on: 14 August, 2010, 08:05:09 pm »
I know I'm just being pedantic now, but I can't resist....  No matter what medical condition you have, or what pills you're taking, consume vastly fewer calories and you will loose weight.  Eating nothing at all is the clear illustration of that.  Then you WILL get thinner, while you can live at all.  

This is indisputably true - like the old adage "there were no fat people in Belsen" that was used by a GP to one of my wifes friends. However they (the Belsen occupants) weren't particularly healthy either.

But I do agree with Pete - medical conditions (including the psychological) and pharmaceutical influences aside - there is no need or reason to be overweight. I am however. Why? Less than ideal diet and too little physical activity. All my own fault.
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