+ size women want their own clothing range designed

[Panoramix]

If have met a depressing amount of women who are perfectly in proportion and attractive but say maybe a size 16+ and they have convinced themself they need to lose weight.

Very true, I don't know a single who is happy about her weight!

[Panoramix]

there is no need or reason to be overweight. I am however. Why? Less than ideal diet and too little physical activity. All my own fault.

The "all my own fault" is probably harsh on yourself since modern society is designed to make us overweight ( car + crap food)

[bobb]

It's not just what society deems normal, but also the medical profession. Don't get me wrong, IANADr but yesterday at hospital I was told I was seriously under weight. That's just the way I am. And it's just the way many people who are "overweight" are. I was measured at 183 cm (which I understand in real money is 6') and I weighed 63 kg (which I believe is a few pounds under 10 st)

No matter what I eat, it won't change. (OK maybe up or down a bit, but nothing huge)

I am skinny. And some people are not.

I'm still alive. That's all I'm bothered about...

[Cudzoziemiec]

Bobb... At risk of sounding offensive, but without wanting to be, I will say this. You do drink a large amount of alcohol a large amount of the time. Though I don't know you I do know, just through living in a Polish village where it's the norm for most of the adult male population, a lot of people who are habitual drunkards (and many, even most, of them ride bikes!) and every single one of them is skinny. Skinny is not the norm for Polish villagers who do not drink all day every day (and double on Sundays). You may not be in the same condtion as them, but I don't think you'd want to head that way either.

[nutkin]

Getting back to the original topic, I wish things were made in the right shape or me, as well as size.
I'm not the first pear-shaped woman on the globe and it's supposedly healthy to have a low waist to hip ratio.

M&S has increased the waist size fitting for most women's sizes by nearly six inches (15cm) since the 1960s. (A size 16 in 1967 had a 28" waist and now is 84cm or 33.6".)  This represents a huge amount of unhealthy intra-abdominal fat for much of the population and major fitting problems for me.

AAArgh! Vanity sizing! If you're a size 8 and the mnufacturer increases the measurements, what do you do? There's often no smaller size available.

M&S used to use a size 12 fit model, the standard industry size. When they were bringing new ranges out, or when they wanted to check on their manufacturer's consistency (there used to be a 1.5cm allowance in leg lengths, for example) they would bring in models across the size range (8 to 22) to check for fit. Often they would use more than one model in each size - some people have a more sticky-out bum, but its the same 'size' (measurements) as someone who is the same dress size, but more consistently rounded. Garments need to be graded according to changing body peoportions as you go up and down the size scale. Anyway, they then changed their system overnight and decided to fit on only a size 14 (NOT the industry standard) and grade up & down accordingly. They still brought in some other size models, but would not use anyone over 5'6". Madness, utter madness.

You might have noticed that things that used to fit in M&S no longer did around about this time...

Ah yes, all we weak-willed, out-of-control fat people. If only we could simply admit that we have the lack of willpower to eat less.

Excuse me - I'm off to generate flab via photosynthesis, I mean I must be deluded into thinking that's how I'm fat.. We fatties must just love being in denial about being fat...


 

I've seen Wafflycat's food (and tasted it too!  ) and it is NOT unhealthy. And it isn't served in vast quantities. In fact, Wafflycat eats far more healthily than I do. And yes, she can lose weight. Anyone can. But it isn't easy.

I think that's where the real problem lies. The media often portray weight loss & gain as being something that happens quickly and can be achieved without any real effort. Therefore, if you're not losing weight, you can't be trying, right? Well, no. If you're overweight and you're faced with a barrage of opinions stating that you're only x-size because you're not trying, a number of people are bound to become disillusioned and give up (not refering to W-C here).

I only have an opinion on someone's weight or size when it impinges on me. Watching a family member lose weight because of a medical condition has been terrifying. Having a severely overweight person occupying over 1/2 of my seat at the opera as well as her own was bloody annoying and I was squashed.

[hellymedic]

Cudzo, you should meet my Polish cleaning lady. She is skinny. She moves much and eats reasonably; skinny is just what she is.
Bobb, 10 stone is 63.5 kg skinny is what you are too. Your BMI is only a smidge under 19, so not dangerously low.

[Zoidburg]

My concern for Bobb would be how you stand up to a serious off on the bike.

I MTB a bit and while myself and the other guys are slim we are not skinny, skinny gets dangerous as you break more easily without a light covering of toned muscle.

[GruB]

Nutkin,

Mrs G agrees with you totally.  She 'used' to be a size 10 in M&S but now she has to find a size 8 ( nearly impossible ) to get a fit.  She also agrees with the Mrs PColbeck approach and will not wear 'children's' clothes just so she can get a fitted garment.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Indeed, perhaps my post was a little extreme, and I'm not meaning to say "Bobb is skinny cos he drinks too much". But that does happen, and I couldn't help connecting it with Bobb.

And who knows, perhaps I have met your Polish cleaning lady! Tell me what part of Poland she's from and I'll tell you the likelihood!

[GruB]

But getting back onto topic, if we now look at what has been discussed and agree that nearly anyone can lose weight if they really want to, why does the +size women clothing range need to be introduced?

What also galled me about Madame Coupe on the BBC today was that she was not just fat, she was morbidly obese.  

This is something else I have just found:
Large waist size linked to double the mortality rate:
BBC News - Large waist size linked to 'higher risk of death'

[Zoidburg]

It needs to be intoduced to break the cycle of negative body image.

Trying to shame people through social exclusion is not going to improve the chances of them re-joining the world of people who are within a healthy/safe weight range.

[wafflycat]

I've seen Wafflycat's food (and tasted it too!  ) and it is NOT unhealthy. And it isn't served in vast quantities. In fact, Wafflycat eats far more healthily than I do. And yes, she can lose weight. Anyone can. But it isn't easy.

Thank you, m'dear!

[Eccentrica Gallumbits]

But getting back onto topic, if we now look at what has been discussed and agree that nearly anyone can lose weight if they really want to, why does the +size women clothing range need to be introduced?

Maybe some people just don't want to lose weight, or not enough to do it if it involves hard work.

[GruB]

From reading that other link it would appear they will not live as long if they do not.

[wafflycat]

And of course that nice, slim, healthy weight person may just walk under a bus tomorrow morning and end up dead a bit sooner than they thought they'd be.

[Eccentrica Gallumbits]

From reading that other link it would appear they will not live as long if they do not.

That doesn't stop people driving instead of cycling, although cyclists tend to live longer.

[Zoidburg]

If you want people to slim down and become more healthy you need both the carrot and the stick.

Let them dress well and that gives pride back, make them wear a sack for the rest of time and that is never going to happen.

All the way back in 1998 when I did my basic training the obese you g people we see today were just starting to filter their way into the forces.

Yes there was still that element of shouting and chasing them with a stick until they pulled their socks up and worked at it but that was combined with proper rehab and rebuilding of pride. It's about acceptance, accept them as what they are and help them by showing them that the acceptance means that people care about them and don't want to see them being over weight, struggling with parts of life/work and unhappy because of that.

[GruB]

Waffles, re: the bus and slim person:
Yes, but that is not their decision is it?
I don't know your particular circumstances but I expect it is not the commonest cause for over weight people.

I've got quite a high incentive to watch what I eat and to be strict with myself.  
Limb amputation and or blindness is not something I really want to live with.  But that is hopefully a long way away due to my 95% of the time control.

But Mr and Mrs Average in their size 20 clothes, where is the incentive for them to eat correctly and to exercise?
So in 5 years time, what was average will soon be increased to the new average as it slowly becomes more and more acceptable to be fat.

I read a file once when two fat people became upset when they were eating a kebab and people nearby made piggy noises and pulled faces by blowing out their cheeks at them.  I am not suggesting we ridicule all fat people but we do seem to gradually be accepting that it is okay to be fatter.

[hellymedic]

Indeed, perhaps my post was a little extreme, and I'm not meaning to say "Bobb is skinny cos he drinks too much". But that does happen, and I couldn't help connecting it with Bobb.

And who knows, perhaps I have met your Polish cleaning lady! Tell me what part of Poland she's from and I'll tell you the likelihood!

I can't remember the exact location but it's in the east, towards Lithuania.

[Cudzoziemiec]

East is me, but I'm also more south, towards Ukraine. So I doubt if I've ever met her!

[wafflycat]

Waffles, re: the bus and slim person:
Yes, but that is not their decision is it?

It may well have been their decision to misjudge stepping out into the road...

I don't know your particular circumstances but I expect it is not the commonest cause for over weight people.

I've got quite a high incentive to watch what I eat and to be strict with myself.  
Limb amputation and or blindness is not something I really want to live with.  But that is hopefully a long way away due to my 95% of the time control.

But Mr and Mrs Average in their size 20 clothes, where is the incentive for them to eat correctly and to exercise?
So in 5 years time, what was average will soon be increased to the new average as it slowly becomes more and more acceptable to be fat.

So who are this Mr & Mrs Average?  Acceptable to be fat? I can only assume you've not been on the end of the abuse you get from being fat.

I read a file once when two fat people became upset when they were eating a kebab and people nearby made piggy noises and pulled faces by blowing out their cheeks at them.  I am not suggesting we ridicule all fat people but we do seem to gradually be accepting that it is okay to be fatter.

I'm not surprised they were upset. Are fat people never supposed to have a treat? It's assumed they eat kebabs all the time? I'd have been tempted to turn around and stick the kebab up the orifaces where the sun doesn't normally shine of the exceedingly rude people making such noises. That was appalling. Do you think otherwise?

I've had people suggest that I'd burn well as the fat would keep the flames going nicely... ah yes, being fat is gradually being accepted alright.. NOT.

[hellymedic]

This is something else I have just found:
Large waist size linked to double the mortality rate:
BBC News - Large waist size linked to 'higher risk of death'

This business of waist size 'apples and pears' has been known for a while and was to what I was referring in an earlier post. It does concern me how much waistlines have increased in Britain, even in 'slimmer' people.

[Eccentrica Gallumbits]

I am not suggesting we ridicule all fat people but we do seem to gradually be accepting that it is okay to be fatter.

Shouldn't we be accepting that it's ok for people to be anything as long as they're not hurting someone else?

[nutkin]

To look at Grub's original point, the reason plus size women want their own clothing range is simple. Vanity. We all have it. I wouldn't want to wear something that made me look horrendous, why should they? All women want to dress well, to flatter their shape, irrespective of what that shape is. This is something that all should be able to do. Whether you choose to do it or not is another matter. If the choice is removed from you beacuse someone has decided to stop a clothing range 4 inches below your hip measurement, I think you've every right to shout about it.

As to whether the demand is increasing due to acceptance of weight gain as the consequence of an unhealthy life-style (which I think is Grub's point), that may certainly be true. For every person who is plus-sized despite their attempts to lose weight, there's probably two or three who are that size as a consequence of poor diet and sedentary lifestyle. And they're not attempting to change things. I think we all agree that those who are attempting to control their weight (whether they are succeeding or not) are not the ones that Grub is thinking of.

The human population is changing. Generally we're taller than people 50 years ago, and better nutrition has meant that we have generally grown a bit all round. I love vintage clothes from the 50s, but often find that the body is too short. It's not that I have a peculiarly long body either, simply that at 5'7" (and a bit!) I'm considerably 'longer' than the average height of 5'2" on which garments were fitted then.

BUT...

The statistic of 47% of UK women are size 16 or over is often accompanied by the statement that Marily Monroe was a size 16. Yes, she was. A 1950s size sixteen. Quite different from a modern one. Her measurements are quoted as being 37-23-36 (Studio's Claim); 35-22-35 (Dressmaker's Claim). That BBC article about large waist sizes gives an M&S 16 as being 84cm, or 33". 10" larger than Marilyn's measurement. Yes, nearly a foot larger! A 23" waist measurement doesn't even make it onto their charts (on the M&S website) - a size 6 has a waist measurement of 24"!! The dressmaker's measurements would, at 89-56-89 make her an M&S 12 bust, 4 waist and 8 hips. The studio measurements make her 14-4-10. By no stretch of the imagination is that anywhere near a modern 16.

Our lifestyles are more sedentary than the 1950s - washing machines, hoovers, dishwashers and cars were luxury items for many people back then, and if you couldn't afford them you burned extra calories doing things the hard way. We don't like to admit we're lazier, and we don't like to admit we're larger. God forbid if anyone then suggested a link between the two!

Better to demand a change in clothing size measurements, than to look at whether we need to reassess our way of life.

[wafflycat]

Shouldn't we be accepting that it's ok for people to be anything as long as they're not hurting someone else?

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