Author Topic: + size women want their own clothing range designed  (Read 50682 times)

wafflycat

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #25 on: 14 August, 2010, 01:18:34 pm »
That depends upon what you mean by 'accept it'

I am fat, I accept it, I don't like it, but it is a constant battle to maintain a lesser level of obesity rather than end up even more huge. I have to watch what I eat for my entire life.

The problem is that by not accepting it, for too many this means that it's seen as ok to riducle and abuse people for being fat and that is unacceptable in my book.

Being fat is NOT 'wrong' it is a complex issue.

Panoramix

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #26 on: 14 August, 2010, 01:26:43 pm »
I think that it just reflects the sedentary modern lifestyle we have and how good the food industry is at marketing cheap crap.

If you have to walk or cycle to work, your mind come to the conclusion that going to work is difficult.

If you have to go to the gym or cycle to control your weight, your mind come to the conclusion that staying slim is difficult

If you need to save pennies to eat meat.... etc
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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #27 on: 14 August, 2010, 01:35:10 pm »
This is also prompting quite a lot of discussion in my household.
Mrs G is often highly annoyed by the sizing that is available.
She goes into a shop and cannot find a size 8 anywhere - and all the racks are occupied by size 16 to 22 etc.

So how big are plus sizes going to need to be?

In my other thread about L-Cartinine I read from Wikipedia - as copied below.
This amino acid helps move fat into the mitochondria where it can be used as fuel.

Panoramix has hit upon a great side subject - the modern diet.

Product    Quantity    Carnitine
Beef steak    100 g    95 mg
Ground beef    100 g    94 mg
Pork    100 g    27.7 mg
Bacon    100 g    23.3 mg
Tempeh    100 g    19.5 mg
Cod fish    100 g     5.6 mg
Chicken breast    100 g     3.9 mg

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #28 on: 14 August, 2010, 01:36:17 pm »
So gradually we are accepting that people are getting fatter and are making changes to help them feel more comfortable and acceptable.  

I don't want to be patronising to overweight people, but I see having clothing ranges for larger people as a good thing.

Many fat people are very self concious about their size. If the only clothes they can get are basically sacks, then that's going to hammer self confidence even more. And what are they going to do then? Eat.

Give larger people clothes they feel confident in and they'll feel happier and more positive. And when you're happy and positive, you're more likely to take action. ie Lose weight.

So I think it's a good thing rather than acceptance that people are generally getting larger....
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wafflycat

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #29 on: 14 August, 2010, 01:50:32 pm »
This is also prompting quite a lot of discussion in my household.
Mrs G is often highly annoyed by the sizing that is available.
She goes into a shop and cannot find a size 8 anywhere - and all the racks are occupied by size 16 to 22 etc.



I'd like to know what these shops are, as the vast majority of places I find, unless specifically for plus sizes (Evans, Yours) rarely have anything above a size 18 in any sort of quantity or range that can resemble anything that gives a real choice.

Biggsy

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #30 on: 14 August, 2010, 01:58:54 pm »
It is complex why one person is fatter than another when the number of calories consumed and exersise done is the same, but there is the simple truth that if you reduce the calories consumed (and do more exersise when you can) then you loose weight.  I'm not saying it's easy, but it is possible for everyone.  And eating "healthy" food is only helpful when you don't eat too much of it.

Meanwhile of course no one should riducled or abused for being fat (or skinny), and good clothing should be available for everyone.  I think it's dodgy though to publically celebrate and defend gross obesity as if there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, as some celebrities have done.
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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #31 on: 14 August, 2010, 02:01:51 pm »
M&S seemed to have a lot in larger sizes when I last visited.
They have revised their sizes though, meaning I really struggle to get a size 16 over my hips but can't wear a size 18 cos it's ENORMOUS the waist and tummy.

wafflycat

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #32 on: 14 August, 2010, 02:09:07 pm »
It is complex why one person is fatter than another when the number of calories consumed and exersise done is the same, but there is the simple truth that if you reduce the calories consumed (and do more exersise when you can) then you loose weight.  I'm not saying it's easy, but it is possible for everyone.  And eating "healthy" food is only helpful when you don't eat too much of it.

Meanwhile of course no one should riducled or abused for being fat (or skinny), and good clothing should be available for everyone.  I think it's dodgy though to publically celebrate and defend gross obesity as if there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, as some celebrities have done.

Actually it's not possible for everyone. There's a number of medical conditions that adversely affect weight.

And er, thanks for pointing out I eat too much, even though everything I eat is weighed, portion controlled and written up in a food diary which is supervised by a third party  ::-)

Just another example of the sort of patronising attitude the fat have to put up with. We're oh so lacking in self-control... if only we ate less...

Yes, a major cause of obesity is people eating too much but the full picture is far, far more complex.



Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #33 on: 14 August, 2010, 02:15:28 pm »
This is also prompting quite a lot of discussion in my household.
Mrs G is often highly annoyed by the sizing that is available.
She goes into a shop and cannot find a size 8 anywhere - and all the racks are occupied by size 16 to 22 etc.
I'd like to know what these shops are, as the vast majority of places I find, unless specifically for plus sizes (Evans, Yours) rarely have anything above a size 18 in any sort of quantity or range that can resemble anything that gives a real choice.
It's the same places. Most shops stock 10 12 and 14, with few things at either end of the scale and even the size 10s are made for girls that have no waist or hips. Having been both ends of the scale - size 16+ are no easier to get than size 8, especially in cycling or walking clothes and vice versa. :-\





Quote from: Kim
^ This woman knows what she's talking about.

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #34 on: 14 August, 2010, 02:18:27 pm »
Yup Mrs Pcolbeck is a size 8 and ends up having to shop in TopShop and the like to get stuff to fit. Is OK but can be hard to get something that she thinks is age appropriate. She doesn't want to look like a 16 year old (well I guess she wouldn't mind but you know what I mean). She finds it much easier in France.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Biggsy

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #35 on: 14 August, 2010, 02:28:55 pm »
I know there are medical conditions that adversely affect weight, but you still loose weight if you reduce the number of calories, don't you?  I know it's immensely difficult for many people, but it's not impossible, is it?
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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #36 on: 14 August, 2010, 02:31:22 pm »
Methinks RZ would find getting a minimum order very difficult if only S & M were on offer...
Oh, I'm not so sure.  ;D
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wafflycat

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #37 on: 14 August, 2010, 02:41:44 pm »
I know there are medical conditions that adversely affect weight, but you still loose weight if you reduce the number of calories, don't you?  I know it's immensely difficult for many people, but it's not impossible, is it?

The simple answer is yes and often the simple answer is wrong. The real answer is no, sometimes, yes, maybe all at the same time. Let me put this as plainly as I can. The issue of weight is NOT simple. It is complex. We may be biological machines but we are all a bit different from each other, so we don't all deal with calories in in the same way/extent/call it what you will. Weight loss is NOT a steady thing. You can be on a calorie restricted diet and NOT lose weight at an expected rate. You can 'plateau' for weeks/months/long term. Then there's the effect of age and how the body deals with food as we get older. We change. Then there's gender - men's bodies are different to women's bodies in terms of how they handle food (example - on weight loss regimes men get to eat more than a woman with the same amount of weight to lose and with the same activity level)

Having kept a food diary of what I eat, when I eat it, the amount I eat, the exercise I do.. if I want to lose weight, keep it off long term to be in the upper end of the healthy BMI range then I have to exist on effectviely a starvation diet and that puts me on lack of essential nutrients which is, of itself, unhealthy. And no, I'm not fooling myself by eating chocolate, chips, downing the alcohol etc and trying to fool myself. And I have to do a LOT of exercise (minimum 200 miles a week on the bike).

The body is complex, not a simple machine. And quite frankly, the  attitude of 'if only you eat less' is patronising at best and can be utterly wrong. It is way too simplistic.

border-rider

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #38 on: 14 August, 2010, 02:46:29 pm »
And quite frankly, the  attitude of 'if only you eat less' is patronising at best and can be utterly wrong. It is way too simplistic.

+1

I can get my weight right down to skinny, with a deal of effort, but I'm usually, frankly, just a little bit podgy and that's where my body's weight "thermostat" sits.  My brother is a fat chap, always has been, though his diet is much like mine.  Our sister is skinny as.

I understand pretty well all the various metabolic and physiological mechanisms involved and Wafflycat's summary is - to me - pretty good.

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #39 on: 14 August, 2010, 03:07:01 pm »
Kirst,

Yep, as I said above, the fat people should be able to wear what they want.  I was not really arguing against that point but I was trying to figure out the reason for my angst that was linked to it.

I pay an arm and a leg for a fruit box to be delivered on Fridays.  We live in rural Wiltshire and although we have supermarkets in Marlborough and nearby Pewsey, the 'fresh' food is not as 'fresh' as that that comes in the fruit box.  It is also a local business and I support that and it saves on driving to the supermarket etc.  But the point I am making is this is over and above to try and make a difference. 

It costs an arm and a leg to pay for swimming club sessions and to drive them there etc.

In this society of ours, it is much easier and cheaper to be fat I reckon.  Fat food is also not just cheaper it also quite often tastes better than healthy food.


Ok, I see what you're saying, but you were posting about clothes without explaining all your other thoughts, so it seemed to me that you were questioning if fat people should have clothes.

It used to be that poor people were thin and fat people were rich. Now it seems that poor people seem more likely to be fat - and at the same time, malnourished.

Fat/thin isn't just a medical issue though. You can look at it in terms of medical consequences fairly easily, but the attitudes to weight and size and shape come from much more complex contributing factors.

And people find it very difficult to talk about. Look at the way the media use "curvy" to describe a celeb who's getting fatter than they used to be. Curvy isn't a volume, it's a shape. I was curvy when I was thin - because I'll always have hips and tits - and I'm curvy when I'm fat. Other people are more straight up and down, whether they're fat or thin. Look at the fuss about Christina Hendricks who plays Joan in Mad Men - she's not fat, she's the epitome of curvy, but because she's not stick thin, in Hollywood terms she's fat. And a few years ago when there was all that fuss about Jennifer Lopez's arse I read an article which said that she was 5'6" and 8 stone - if that article was true, then technically she was underweight, but people were going on about her as if she was a heifer.


Meanwhile of course no one should riducled or abused for being fat (or skinny), and good clothing should be available for everyone.  I think it's dodgy though to publically celebrate and defend gross obesity as if there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, as some celebrities have done.
Think of it as people reacting to the decades of abuse and criticism they've suffered. I know people who have been verbally abused and in some cases physically assaulted by strangers in the street because of their size. Well, not because of their size, that's victim blaming, but because some people think it's ok to abuse and assault people if they're fat. If you've spent years of your life reading magazines or watching telly or films or overhearing conversations which make it very clear that your size and shape are not socially acceptable, or being bullied at school, or laughed at by your colleagues, or turned down for jobs you can do, then you might want to say a big "fuck you world, I'm fat, get over it."

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Chris S

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #40 on: 14 August, 2010, 03:09:05 pm »
Thermodynamically, it is about the Calorie/Exercise balance.

But that is wholly masked by individual effects of DNA, perceptions, pills and potions, upbringing, fashion, and god knows what else.

I used to think it was just about the calorie balance. But there's so much more to it than that.

This spin-off warrants a whole thread of its own in Health & Efficiency Fitness.

border-rider

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #41 on: 14 August, 2010, 03:12:53 pm »
I used to think it was just about the calorie balance. But there's so much more to it than that.

absolutely.  On both counts.

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #42 on: 14 August, 2010, 03:20:58 pm »
Whatever it is down to it is the new smoking for visits to the doctor. (At least in Holland)

BBC News - Obese visit GP more often than smokers, researchers say

Who knows, maybe there will be a link found between some kind of behaviour and weight control issues. There are suggestions it is down to a virus. I put on 2 stone over the winter down to lack of exercise, drinking too much and eating comfort snacks; any virus I had was one in my mind. I've dealt with it and now I am eating less, drinking virtually nothing and exercising more. The 2 stone will go.
It is simpler than it looks.

wafflycat

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #43 on: 14 August, 2010, 03:30:39 pm »
There are suggestions that for *some* people, weight gain can be the result of a viral infection. It's thought one or more of the adenoviruses may be implicated in weight gain in some people. Indeed there has been one case publicised where a set of identical twins were studied. Although identical twins, one was slim and one was considerably fatter. The fatter one tested positive for exposure to a particular adenovirus thought to be implicated in weight gain.

Biggsy

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #44 on: 14 August, 2010, 03:31:25 pm »
I know it's a highly complex subject as a whole, but still the simple fact remains that if you consume *enough* fewer calories then you will loose weight.  I am not saying it's not complex to manage that and to know how many fewer calolories that are needed at any one time, etc, etc.  Especially I appreciate that it can be difficult to be healthly while consuming vastly fewer calories.  After all, you're guaranteed to loose weight if you stop eating altogether, but being dead is not healthy.

I'm sorry that I upset you Wafflycat.  I don't mean to criticise you or any indivdual.  I just wanted to discuss the idea in general that it's physically impossible for everyone to loose weight because I'm concerned that too many people believe it is.  I accept that it's *practically* impossible for a few people, but not for the majority.

Being overweight is not a problem I have personally, but is for some loved ones of mine, including one with a medical condition that makes them put on weight easily - so I care about the subject.

Personally I've had the opposite problem of being underweight.  My worst point was after not eating for over three weeks becuase of major stomach problems.  Perhaps this clear experience of loosing weight through lack of calories colours my judgement.
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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #45 on: 14 August, 2010, 03:32:39 pm »
Thermodynamically, it is about the Calorie/Exercise balance.

But that is wholly masked by individual effects of DNA, perceptions, pills and potions, upbringing, fashion, and god knows what else.

I used to think it was just about the calorie balance. But there's so much more to it than that.

It is purley down to calorie/exercise balance. Eat less calories than you burn and you will get thinner eat more and you put on weight. That's it full stop,
You can't generate body mass from sun;light alone.
The problem is the psychology behind achieving that balance. Some people are lucky and seem to stay thin though they eat the same as someone who eats the same and puts on weight but when you look at them in detail they are more active. Mrs Pcolbeck is one of those. Doesn't actually do any "exercise" but never sits still, has a kind of nervous energy foot always tapping when at the computer etc. Me I put on weight easily because I am very slothful. Medication can suppress your desire to do anything or increase your appetite and so on. It gets complicated but in the end its calories in versus calories burned.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #46 on: 14 August, 2010, 03:37:18 pm »
There are suggestions that for *some* people, weight gain can be the result of a viral infection. It's thought one or more of the adenoviruses may be implicated in weight gain in some people. Indeed there has been one case publicised where a set of identical twins were studied. Although identical twins, one was slim and one was considerably fatter. The fatter one tested positive for exposure to a particular adenovirus thought to be implicated in weight gain.

The only way it could cause her to gain weight was causing an increase in appetite or a decrease in exercise. As I said a couple of post ago not all exercise is what we think of as exercise some people just use more calories standing around or even sitting as they don't really sit or stand still. The only other thing it could possibly do is increase the efficiency of the metabolism to extract calories from food as it passed through teh body. In which case she just needs to eat less food.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

wafflycat

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #47 on: 14 August, 2010, 03:47:29 pm »
Ah yes, all we weak-willed, out-of-control fat people. If only we could simply admit that we have the lack of willpower to eat less.

Excuse me - I'm off to generate flab via photosynthesis, I mean I must be deluded into thinking that's how I'm fat.. We fatties must just love being in denial about being fat...


  ::-)


Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #48 on: 14 August, 2010, 03:53:19 pm »
Not having a go at you or anyone else. Took me two years to loose two stones and I have put one back on again in the last year. I also smoke so I am not having a go at anyone's will power. You cant argue with the first law of thermodynamics though.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #49 on: 14 August, 2010, 03:57:02 pm »
There are suggestions that for *some* people, weight gain can be the result of a viral infection. It's thought one or more of the adenoviruses may be implicated in weight gain in some people. Indeed there has been one case publicised where a set of identical twins were studied. Although identical twins, one was slim and one was considerably fatter. The fatter one tested positive for exposure to a particular adenovirus thought to be implicated in weight gain.

The only way it could cause her to gain weight was causing an increase in appetite or a decrease in exercise. As I said a couple of post ago not all exercise is what we think of as exercise some people just use more calories standing around or even sitting as they don't really sit or stand still. The only other thing it could possibly do is increase the efficiency of the metabolism to extract calories from food as it passed through teh body. In which case she just needs to eat less food.
And to change the body's preferred calorie source in terms of the balance between fat and carbohydrate being used? Which could presumably alter the body shape while not affecting total calorie use. It's not beyond the realms of possibility, surely, that a virus could affect all three.

But someone mentioned the tendency of people who used to burn a lot of energy, such as professional sports people, to put on weight when they stop. It's also been found that those who have survived a famine tend to put on weight because their body has learnt to save every calorie it can as fat.
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