Mid-Essex / Bit of Suffolk 2 night bivvy extravaganza (11th to 13th September)

[Oscar's dad]

The bike was upside down not me!

[Nick]

OK, thank you, OD, Lightning Phil and psyclist for your suggestions re lights.
Think I'll go for the first option of the B&M jobs and buy an Igaro or similar later, perhaps much later. 
Will get my wheel ordered soon. Do I need anything else to fit the lights, please? Cables, fixings, whatever?
Thanks, as usual for all of you valuable advice!
Nick.

[psyclist]

Do I need anything else to fit the lights, please? Cables, fixings, whatever?

No. When you order the lights just make sure they come with the correct connection type for your dynamo hub.

Only other consideration is if you wanted to place the lights in a different position to the bracket that will come with the light itself.

[Tomsk]

... Also, do you want a rear light in the mix? I have the B&M Brake Plus re-fitted on the Kona now (needed better spade connectors and slightly longer wire) but I'm not sure it's worth the extra hassle of running wires to the back. None of my Audax machines have this, just 2 x battery rear lights.

[Oscar's dad]

... Also, do you want a rear light in the mix? I have the B&M Brake Plus re-fitted on the Kona now (needed better spade connectors and slightly longer wire) but I'm not sure it's worth the extra hassle of running wires to the back. None of my Audax machines have this, just 2 x battery rear lights.

I have a rear dyno light on two of my machines and I like it. Running wires back is a bit of a faff but do-able.

[BFC]

Dynamo rear lights have many advantages, especially for commutting, but can be a pain.

Advantages:
A rear light that can be turned on/off under the control of the front light - much easier to use in traffic without taking the eyes off of the idiots in front of you.

Disadvantages:
Wiring is a pain to route, makes the bike look untidy, and is prone to parking and vibration damage. The section along the mudguard stays is the most damage prone.
Vibration related failure issues with mudguard mounted lights, but that is the most visible place to mount a light on most bikes - affects wiring and internal super capacitor connections (on B&M models, used for stand light or brake light features). Depends on mudguard type, tyre size and pressure, surface type as to how much of a reliability issue this becomes.
Vibration and wire routing on rack mounted lighting options are less severe but still need to be considered.
Water damage to connections is a reliability factor, again most severe on mudguard mounts, but some level of effect on all installations.

If you don't have the skills or materials or equipment to maintain a wired rear light, better to go with battery options.
Always have a battey light fitted as a backup in case the wired option fails away from the workshop.

I have B&M rear lights on 3 of my bikes - two rack mounts and one mudguard mount. The fourth bikes dynamo set up is currently exposure revo with red eye - the red eye is a brilliant commuter lamp but but needs carefull sheilding from eyeline of following riders if used for audax or other group rides. Bike number four may be converted to B&M with a frame mounted rear - it doesn't have mudguards (and no clearance for them).

[Oscar's dad]

You need to write a book. Sheldon Brown needs a successor.

[Nick]

... Also, do you want a rear light in the mix? I have the B&M Brake Plus re-fitted on the Kona now (needed better spade connectors and slightly longer wire) but I'm not sure it's worth the extra hassle of running wires to the back. None of my Audax machines have this, just 2 x battery rear lights.

Yep, I am thinking front and rear for extra loveliness.

[Nick]

Dynamo rear lights have many advantages, especially for commutting, but can be a pain.

Advantages:
A rear light that can be turned on/off under the control of the front light - much easier to use in traffic without taking the eyes off of the idiots in front of you.

Disadvantages:
Wiring is a pain to route, makes the bike look untidy, and is prone to parking and vibration damage. The section along the mudguard stays is the most damage prone.
Vibration related failure issues with mudguard mounted lights, but that is the most visible place to mount a light on most bikes - affects wiring and internal super capacitor connections (on B&M models, used for stand light or brake light features). Depends on mudguard type, tyre size and pressure, surface type as to how much of a reliability issue this becomes.
Vibration and wire routing on rack mounted lighting options are less severe but still need to be considered.
Water damage to connections is a reliability factor, again most severe on mudguard mounts, but some level of effect on all installations.

If you don't have the skills or materials or equipment to maintain a wired rear light, better to go with battery options.
Always have a battey light fitted as a backup in case the wired option fails away from the workshop.

I have B&M rear lights on 3 of my bikes - two rack mounts and one mudguard mount. The fourth bikes dynamo set up is currently exposure revo with red eye - the red eye is a brilliant commuter lamp but but needs carefull sheilding from eyeline of following riders if used for audax or other group rides. Bike number four may be converted to B&M with a frame mounted rear - it doesn't have mudguards (and no clearance for them).

Hello BFC and thank you for your detailed post!
I really would like the convenience of a rear lamp and I was sort of hoping I could get one that mounts on the seat post, not sure if these are available but I could probably make a mount at work if not.
Ta,Nick.

[Nick]

You need to write a book. Sheldon Brown needs a successor.

Seconded! 

[jiberjaber]

Dynamo rear lights have many advantages, especially for commutting, but can be a pain.

Advantages:
A rear light that can be turned on/off under the control of the front light - much easier to use in traffic without taking the eyes off of the idiots in front of you.

Disadvantages:
Wiring is a pain to route, makes the bike look untidy, and is prone to parking and vibration damage. The section along the mudguard stays is the most damage prone.
Vibration related failure issues with mudguard mounted lights, but that is the most visible place to mount a light on most bikes - affects wiring and internal super capacitor connections (on B&M models, used for stand light or brake light features). Depends on mudguard type, tyre size and pressure, surface type as to how much of a reliability issue this becomes.
Vibration and wire routing on rack mounted lighting options are less severe but still need to be considered.
Water damage to connections is a reliability factor, again most severe on mudguard mounts, but some level of effect on all installations.

If you don't have the skills or materials or equipment to maintain a wired rear light, better to go with battery options.
Always have a battey light fitted as a backup in case the wired option fails away from the workshop.

I have B&M rear lights on 3 of my bikes - two rack mounts and one mudguard mount. The fourth bikes dynamo set up is currently exposure revo with red eye - the red eye is a brilliant commuter lamp but but needs carefull sheilding from eyeline of following riders if used for audax or other group rides. Bike number four may be converted to B&M with a frame mounted rear - it doesn't have mudguards (and no clearance for them).

Hello BFC and thank you for your detailed post!
I really would like the convenience of a rear lamp and I was sort of hoping I could get one that mounts on the seat post, not sure if these are available but I could probably make a mount at work if not.
Ta,Nick.

Take a look at the Secular, I have a few of them, super reliable and come in two versions, a mudguard one which uses a built in bolt that happens to be the right size for the rear stays on PDW mudguards, so no drilling required, simply run the wire up the mudguard stay and your in business. Alternatively there is a seat stay version which you can also mount on the seat post. 

You do need to consider where you put your dyno rear light as if it's on a bit that gets removed then you need to thing about the wires etc. Seatpost might get in the way of a rear bag of some sort? There are now seat posts with internal cable routing for a post mounted light, you just have to get the cable into the frame in order to do so....
Seat stay might get in the way with panniers - best is mudguard mounted if you always leave the guards on  I did 3d print some brackets for the Secular lights so I could mount them near the top triangle of the seat stay, this is how it's mounted on the fixed bike.

I always have a spare battery light running on the rear as well.

Some dyno rear lights are not great for group riding but the B&M ones seem the best - esp with the built in reflector - makes them visible from a long way without super blinding light output. 

The toplight plus is a good light for use on a rear rack but I have had one fail over rough ground - you also need to factor in what if you take the rack off... the mud guard secular however is still usable with or without a rack.

Also worth considering subject to when it will be available, Igaro has a front light due to market in the next few months - The are very good at squeezing all the juice out of dyno performance for varying speeds with their chargers and applying the same technology to a combined front light might be an interesting proposition.

Front light wise, I've been very impressed with the IQ-X lights I have, performance wise they are far better than the Luxos ones without the water ingress worries etc...  plus they have the ability to be mounted either upside down or right way up without effecting beam pattern so allows for more than just crown mounted location (eg off end of aero bars or a spacer mounted light bracket.)

I might post some pics later of the config I have on my bikes.

Secular plus, mudguard mounted: https://www.bike24.com/p272815.html
Seat stay mounted: https://www.bike24.com/p272822.html

[josser]

Do they do wireless dynamo lights yet?

[Nick]

Dynamo rear lights have many advantages, especially for commutting, but can be a pain.

Advantages:
A rear light that can be turned on/off under the control of the front light - much easier to use in traffic without taking the eyes off of the idiots in front of you.

Disadvantages:
Wiring is a pain to route, makes the bike look untidy, and is prone to parking and vibration damage. The section along the mudguard stays is the most damage prone.
Vibration related failure issues with mudguard mounted lights, but that is the most visible place to mount a light on most bikes - affects wiring and internal super capacitor connections (on B&M models, used for stand light or brake light features). Depends on mudguard type, tyre size and pressure, surface type as to how much of a reliability issue this becomes.
Vibration and wire routing on rack mounted lighting options are less severe but still need to be considered.
Water damage to connections is a reliability factor, again most severe on mudguard mounts, but some level of effect on all installations.

If you don't have the skills or materials or equipment to maintain a wired rear light, better to go with battery options.
Always have a battey light fitted as a backup in case the wired option fails away from the workshop.

I have B&M rear lights on 3 of my bikes - two rack mounts and one mudguard mount. The fourth bikes dynamo set up is currently exposure revo with red eye - the red eye is a brilliant commuter lamp but but needs carefull sheilding from eyeline of following riders if used for audax or other group rides. Bike number four may be converted to B&M with a frame mounted rear - it doesn't have mudguards (and no clearance for them).

Hello BFC and thank you for your detailed post!
I really would like the convenience of a rear lamp and I was sort of hoping I could get one that mounts on the seat post, not sure if these are available but I could probably make a mount at work if not.
Ta,Nick.

Take a look at the Secular, I have a few of them, super reliable and come in two versions, a mudguard one which uses a built in bolt that happens to be the right size for the rear stays on PDW mudguards, so no drilling required, simply run the wire up the mudguard stay and your in business. Alternatively there is a seat stay version which you can also mount on the seat post. 

You do need to consider where you put your dyno rear light as if it's on a bit that gets removed then you need to thing about the wires etc. Seatpost might get in the way of a rear bag of some sort? There are now seat posts with internal cable routing for a post mounted light, you just have to get the cable into the frame in order to do so....
Seat stay might get in the way with panniers - best is mudguard mounted if you always leave the guards on  I did 3d print some brackets for the Secular lights so I could mount them near the top triangle of the seat stay, this is how it's mounted on the fixed bike.

I always have a spare battery light running on the rear as well.

Some dyno rear lights are not great for group riding but the B&M ones seem the best - esp with the built in reflector - makes them visible from a long way without super blinding light output. 

The toplight plus is a good light for use on a rear rack but I have had one fail over rough ground - you also need to factor in what if you take the rack off... the mud guard secular however is still usable with or without a rack.

Also worth considering subject to when it will be available, Igaro has a front light due to market in the next few months - The are very good at squeezing all the juice out of dyno performance for varying speeds with their chargers and applying the same technology to a combined front light might be an interesting proposition.

Front light wise, I've been very impressed with the IQ-X lights I have, performance wise they are far better than the Luxos ones without the water ingress worries etc...  plus they have the ability to be mounted either upside down or right way up without effecting beam pattern so allows for more than just crown mounted location (eg off end of aero bars or a spacer mounted light bracket.)

I might post some pics later of the config I have on my bikes.

Secular plus, mudguard mounted: https://www.bike24.com/p272815.html
Seat stay mounted: https://www.bike24.com/p272822.html

Lots of great info to consider here, so thanks for taking the time to write all this up!

[jiberjaber]

Do they do wireless dynamo lights yet?

Haven't you got some on order yet?

[Bernster]

I did 3d print some brackets for the Secular lights so I could mount them near the top triangle of the seat stay, this is how it's mounted on the fixed bike.

Really useful post Jibber - thanks (and thanks to BFC too). I'd be interested to see a picture of your 3D printed bracket setup (and possibly know whether you'd be interested in doing another run of them  ). I've got Seculas mounted on my seat stays on two bikes secured with the cable tie that comes with them, but I find that they are easily knocked out of position and don't sit at exactly the correct angle. That said, given that they give out such a good, even light in all directions the above doesn't matter that much.

[jiberjaber]

Pics attached:

Green bike is fixed, cable runs along hydraulic cable for rear brake then up the rear of the seat tube secured to brake cable using small black cable ties, then I used clear UV stable tape (3m diamond tape) to tape to the tube.

On the jack, I run the cable under the top tube then down the seat tube, along the none drive chainstay and then along the mudguard stay.  Taped to the frame with UK stable tape and mostly hidden by the frame bag.

I think the CdF (not pictured) uses a mix of the above to get to a mudguard mounted Secular but with enough slack to move it to the rack mounted as that was the original approach I used.

All my bikes have a spare rear LED light which I use in conjunction rather than just backup... I usually only run on the flashing mode if not in a group.

[Oscar's dad]

I've just realised I've got a Secula on BJ's mudguard.  Running the wires back wasn't a problem I even incorporated some slack in the wire as I can slide the guard stays back to make it easier to remove BJ's fixed gear rear wheel.  I've never had any reliability issues - great bit of kit.

[jiberjaber]

I did 3d print some brackets for the Secular lights so I could mount them near the top triangle of the seat stay, this is how it's mounted on the fixed bike.

Really useful post Jibber - thanks (and thanks to BFC too). I'd be interested to see a picture of your 3D printed bracket setup (and possibly know whether you'd be interested in doing another run of them  ). I've got Seculas mounted on my seat stays on two bikes secured with the cable tie that comes with them, but I find that they are easily knocked out of position and don't sit at exactly the correct angle. That said, given that they give out such a good, even light in all directions the above doesn't matter that much.

Yep - if I've still got the file I designed I could print off some black ABS ones (the one I have is in PTEG and white).  I designed it so it could mount inboard of the frame rather than out on the side - hopefully the tube dia would be compatible...

[jiberjaber]

I did 3d print some brackets for the Secular lights so I could mount them near the top triangle of the seat stay, this is how it's mounted on the fixed bike.

Really useful post Jibber - thanks (and thanks to BFC too). I'd be interested to see a picture of your 3D printed bracket setup (and possibly know whether you'd be interested in doing another run of them  ). I've got Seculas mounted on my seat stays on two bikes secured with the cable tie that comes with them, but I find that they are easily knocked out of position and don't sit at exactly the correct angle. That said, given that they give out such a good, even light in all directions the above doesn't matter that much.

Yep - if I've still got the file I designed I could print off some black ABS ones (the one I have is in PTEG and white).  I designed it so it could mount inboard of the frame rather than out on the side - hopefully the tube dia would be compatible...

Found the file, one black abs printed. 16.5mm dia, will need an M3 nut and bolt plus a bit of rubber for the inside

[josser]

Do you think you could design something to hold a son rear seat post light on the seat stay? Currently I'm using an old inner tube and electrical tape to get the thickness required...

[jiberjaber]

Do you think you could design something to hold a son rear seat post light on the seat stay? Currently I'm using an old inner tube and electrical tape to get the thickness required...

Let me know the dimensions and I can see what I can come up with.  All brackets will need something to help stay in place that has a bit of compression, so you won't get away from a bit of inner tube...

[josser]

Ok thanks, I may be up tonight so could explain it then, before you have the volksfestbier!

[jiberjaber]

Ok thanks, I may be up tonight so could explain it then, before you have the volksfestbier!

That sounds like a good plan on both aspects!  

[Bernster]

Found the file, one black abs printed. 16.5mm dia, will need an M3 nut and bolt plus a bit of rubber for the inside

Cheers for checking Jibber - that looks a better option than the standard cable tie that comes with the Secula, but it might be that I need to put a bit more innertube between the cable tie and the seat tube looking at how you have yours mounted. I'll give that a go first, although not sure when I'm going to ride one of the bikes with the Secula next as they're usually summer only 

[jiberjaber]

Well Jos is after a bracket probably with a smaller diameter tube size as well, but I'd certainly recommend a small strip of inner tube on the inside whatever dia is used.  I did design this so it was parametric and I could just adjust the internal dia and everything would scale but I don't use that cad sw now having moved to Fusion360 but I don't think it will be a problem to replicate..

Let me know the target tube diameter and I'll add on a little bit for a strip of rubber and resize.