Tubeless for Dummies

[bludger]

Had my first experience with plugging a hole in a tubeless tyre last night at the local cross race, with a kit I got after reading Malcolm's article. I heard the dreaded pfffft and hoped the sealant would do the job, but alas. Rolled to the side shouting 'I'm out'. Picked the bike up and ran to the pits, where I'd left my bits and bobs, and shoved one of these bacon strip doohickies in with a bit of panicked effort (turns out you actually have to widen the hole a bit with the mini braddle first) https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/WSVELTRK/velox-tubeless-repair-kit-with-tools .

Pumped the tyre back up and was back in the game. Got me round the rest of the race and I rode home on it. I've taken the tyre off and patched it from the inside, so it's at home clamped in a vice right now. Worked pretty well. I think if I'd been running tubed it would have been game over. Especially as on inspection this morning, there was a great big thorn stuck in the tyre which the sealant had done its job on! That's definitely me sold on tubeless now. I plan on every bike I operate on having it going forward.

[zigzag]

had a puncture during pbp, but not sure when. the tyre sealed, but lost a lot of pressure (which i did not notice while riding). only noticed at mortagne contol when i wheeled the bike off the kerb an the rear wheel did not bounce. connected the track pump which showed 20psi. checked for embedded debris, pumped it up to 85psi and finished without any further problems. wear on the sidewall indicates i've been riding with a flattish tyre for a while!

[mattc]

I'm tubeless curious.
The aim is to get more grip and lighter weight on my 26" MTB that I'm using for 'cross. Current tyres are worn out (tubed) Continental Speed Kings.

Should I explore the world of tubeless, or just get myself some more tubes and live with the odd pinch flat? I'm not replacing the wheels - I don't know if that influences the decision.

Do the MTB riders have a limit on their tyre width? (I'm guessing not ... but have never needed to check ... )

[bludger]

They weren't doing checks or nothing at the races I was doing this summer. I saw some stonkingly large tyres.

[simonp]

My rear tyre picked up a puncture in the quagmire at the PBP ride check, flint which did not seal. I put three Dynaplugs in then 45km back to hotel, it seemed to seal up. I got to Carhaix return (700km) before I found that the sealant had all left and it was getting soft. I pumped it up - would not seal. I had carried some Caffelatex sealant with me, but it seemed to have solidified in the pouch. Just enough had stayed liquid to put a bit in and get a seal to finish the ride, so I didn't need to put a tube in.

Anyone else experience sealant going off in the container?

[chrisbainbridge]

I suspect if the container has air in it or there has been significant contact with air then the reaction will have started.

[simonp]

I suspect if the container has air in it or there has been significant contact with air then the reaction will have started.

Sealant in a tyre has plenty air. It doesn’t go off - it will dry out though. The seal may have been broken and allowed it to dry out.

[zigzag]

i used to put 40ml of sealant into a road tyre. however, most of that gets used to line the inner tyre and rim/bead interface; there's very little left for the actual sealing of punctures. i'll be using 50-60ml from now on and be carrying a 30ml bottle just in case.

[simonp]

I've always put 60ml in. Loads comes out when I have a puncture, doesn't do anything.

[DuncanM]

I'm tubeless curious.
The aim is to get more grip and lighter weight on my 26" MTB that I'm using for 'cross. Current tyres are worn out (tubed) Continental Speed Kings.

Should I explore the world of tubeless, or just get myself some more tubes and live with the odd pinch flat? I'm not replacing the wheels - I don't know if that influences the decision.

Do the MTB riders have a limit on their tyre width? (I'm guessing not ... but have never needed to check ... )

Fortunately not. The 33mm limit is for races under UCI regs. They also ban MTBs.

This is somewhat out of date now though asI've got hold of a secondhand 'cross bike!

[mattc]

I'm thinking of scrounging a rear tubeless (rim-brake) wheel to try in the rest of this year's cross races.

Are they are any practical irritations with running this, but with a clincher on the front?

p.s. DuncanM see you at the Oxon rounds??

[Ian H]

I have now converted the Hallett to tubeless (by taking out the tubes & adding sealant).  It all seems to work fine so far, though this is with large, low-pressure tyres.  I gather these are less problematical than high-pressures.

[bludger]

I'm thinking of scrounging a rear tubeless (rim-brake) wheel to try in the rest of this year's cross races.

Are they are any practical irritations with running this, but with a clincher on the front?

p.s. DuncanM see you at the Oxon rounds??

not at all. I've run my bike with one tubeless one clincher a few times, usually after a massive split in a tyre. Only thing I can think of is you might want to think about which tyre should have which tyre pressure. And also that the rear one will require more frequent topping up as tubeless tyres do lose a bit of air overnight

[mattc]

Tubeless "Starter Kits"??

Lets say I buy a pair of "proper" tubeless wheels, + tyres (700x33mm-ish). What else do I need? Is it economical to buy one of the all-in-one kits, or are they full of 2nd-rate bits?

Assume that I have many tyre levers and a half-decent track pump, but bog-all else!


(I don't know if this is a factor, but as these will be my race wheels, I won't be putting loadsa miles on them for a while. And they may sit for 3 weeks between use. If they get converted to regular leisure use later, I'd be happy to buy more stuff. )



[p.s. thanks bludger - having failed to find a bargain, I'm on the verge of buying a new pair of "proper" tubeless wheels.]

[bludger]

The only other bit if gear you may like is an airshot or something similar. It can make mounting tyres tubelessly a lot easier. I have a birzman I got in a deal off planet X which works very well. Otherwise you can use a compressor like you might find in a mechanics workshop.

I didn't find I needed a 'kit' - my Mavic wheels came with valves already, already fitted with tubeless tape, so I just got some OKO hi fibre magic milk off PX which has been good sealant. A syringe can be useful but the other option is to just buy a 60ml bottle of tubeless fluid which you can top up with a big bottle.

For adding the sealant, you would ideally use a valve core tool but pliers can also be used (carefully). Most tubeless valves will come with a tool anyway.

[Hot Flatus]

Use Tesa tape, rather than branded rim tape. It's way cheaper and lasts longer.

Get valves cheaply on ebay. Stans, DT Swiss are both good.

Orangeseal Extreme sealant is the best I've used.

The Stans syringe kit is good for topping up.

Soapy water for fitting, no need for anything else.

Airshot is sometimes necessary.

[mattc]

Cheers.

(I'm definitely suffering wood-from-the-trees here. I've only just realised that the wheels I'm buying come with most of this shit ...

[DuncanM]

DuncanM see you at the Oxon rounds??

Probably. I rode the Newbury/Reading/Swindon races earlier in the series and then I hurt my knee. Hopefully I can ride Standlake/Dalton/Condors (maybe with my daughter in tow, though she's not been so enthusiastic this winter - it might be the mud!). I'll be at the Condor one whatever.

And my 'cross bike has regular tubes in. I have some decent tyres that aren't tubeless ready, so I'm sticking with tubes for the moment on this bike. At the last race I was doing I was aware that each time I hopped the super muddy ditch on a descent my rim hit the surface underneath, but thankfully I didn't pinch flat. I wonder if that's partly down to using 33mm tyres on sensible rims, but maybe it was pure dumb luck.

[bludger]

I've been deliberating on whether making those pool noodle rim liners might be worth it for tubeless cross and MTB. I too have dinged rims a few times and it never feels great.

[DuncanM]

The serious CX people still seem to be using tubulars. I don't know why they are preferred over tubeless.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Lower pressure without damaging rims or losing air pressure in turns (burping).

[DuncanM]

Lower pressure without damaging rims or losing air pressure in turns (burping).

I thought tubeless originated in MTB where they ran equally low pressures. If so, what's the difference? Lack of tubulars for MTB?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

The difference is tyre width. Wider tyres at the same pressure = greater forces in the casing and the beads. Cyclocross is an unusual combination of narrow tyres and low pressures.

Also, tubular rims don’t have unsupported ‘bits’ to hold a tyre on. Those bits are easily damaged.

Mavic did 559 tubular rims back in the day but almost nobody bought them (or the matching tyres). I see that there are some silly money MTB tubular options floating around still. https://www.bike24.com/p2125291.html

[Cudzoziemiec]

And as someone pointed out somewhere, fat tubes = big weight.

[Ben T]

What method does anyone else use to top up the sealant?
I thought I had found a quicker method than the syringe, which was to unhook one bead, pour a bit in, and then push it back on and re-inflate.
But I did that just now and it wouldn't reseat, even when I'd cleaned all the sealant out, and wiped it with soapy water.
It did seat however after I'd run it with a tube in for a bit, and then took the tube back out again.