PBP Sleep

[ramchip]

Our first PBP. Whilst our qualifiers are going well with just the 600k remaining it's clear to me that my riding partner will need sleep each night as she simply gets too tired. So I'd love to know from those who have rode PBP how much actual sleep you had plus how easy is it to get a bed on route?

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[Exit Stage Left]

Solo or Tandem? Honestly? Or for the purpose of motivation?

[ramchip]

Well I reckon my friend will need 4 or 5 hours each night. We don't faff at controls and will be averaging at least 22km ph so we should have the time.

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[Chris S]

If you're starting Sunday, you're guaranteed to ride the whole event sleep deprived, because you're time-bound to ride through the first night.

I'm (in)famously rubbish at sleep dep, and turn into mush when I'm tired. In 2015, we had a hotel booked near Brest, and I was utterly spent and desperate for rest when we finally got there about 2am on day 2.

In my n=1 experience, sleep management is the defining difference between PBP and (say) LEL.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

You might average 4-5 hours if you don't lose time at intermediate controls. It is very easy to lose time in controls...

[ramchip]

Yes we are in the 90 hour group with an 18.30 start. Her body clock just seems to shut her down after 2am which is a worry. I'm very interested to know what sleep others had on PBP.

[Exit Stage Left]

Riding at the back of the field with other couples is an interesting way of experiencing PBP. But don't assume that your partner is the one who's going to find it difficult.

[Zed43]

In my n=1 experience, sleep management is the defining difference between PBP and (say) LEL.

Could you elaborate?

This is going to be my first PBP but I did LEL in 2017. Started at 12:45, rode through the first night and slept for about 3 1/1 hours (each) in Brampton (twice, @560 and 866km) and Lough (1180km). Intending to sleep twice at the camping just East of Loudeac (gourmet food, massages, hot tubs and duvets provided by randonneurs.nl, or at least tents and air mattrasses  )

[T42]

You might average 4-5 hours if you don't lose time at intermediate controls. It is very easy to lose time in controls...

I averaged 4 hours over two PBPs: 5 hours total on the first, 3 hours total on the second.

[mattc]

Yes we are in the 90 hour group with an 18.30 start. Her body clock just seems to shut her down after 2am which is a worry. I'm very interested to know what sleep others had on PBP.

The general approach is to get as little as you can get by with - so replies will reflect this. But you (and/or partner) may need more than the typical respondent.

People vary HUGELY in their sleep dep response - and thus their requirement over 4 nights. [I'm at the ChrisS end of the spectrum, sadly!]

For a rider that really can't get past the 2am witching hour, it's worth:
- practicing an evening start event (to assess the problem),
- practicing grabbing cat-naps etc. 20-40mins can make a massive difference. Night 2 is a different ballgame ...

Some carry cloth sleeping bag liners (or super light bivvy bags), and make sure their luggage easily converts into a pillow

[LMT]

84 hr starter, approx. 16 hours sleep and apart from a 20 minute queue at Loudeac Brest bound there was no issues with getting beds.

[Chris S]

In my n=1 experience, sleep management is the defining difference between PBP and (say) LEL.

Could you elaborate?

It's much easier to maintain a more natural diurnal rhythm with any multi-day event that doesn't force you straight into sleep dep by starting at a ridiculous time like halfway through the day (LEL) or worse, early evening (PBP/90hr).

We found sleep management on LEL 2013 easy, where we started early morning and rode 'til our planned sleep stops on each day. PBP 2015, we rode non-stop to Brest, missing a night and a half's sleep and spending the next week feeling like shite.

Of course, if you can operate as intended on little to no sleep, then you have more options.

[vorsprung]

Our first PBP. Whilst our qualifiers are going well with just the 600k remaining it's clear to me that my riding partner will need sleep each night as she simply gets too tired. So I'd love to know from those who have rode PBP how much actual sleep you had plus how easy is it to get a bed on route?

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Last time (2011) I got about 0.25 + 2 + 6 = just under 9 hours.  My strategy for last time is here https://audaxing.wordpress.com/2011/09/13/pbp-stuff-that-worked/

Also how easy is it to get a bed?  If you are "ahead of the curve" it's easy.  If you are "in the bulge" it's difficult
The "bulge" is that everyone gets to the controls about the same time, there are 5000 people so the controls cannot have enough beds.  Last time I had an early start time and managed to get ahead of the curve.  Despite this, when I got to Brest there were no beds - some of the 80h group were still there.  I think this time I will take my inflatable mat and maybe a sleeping bag as I have a later start time

You probably want to read my top ten sleep tips http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=12336.msg208226#msg208226

[L CC]

If your partner needs sleep, book somewhere. You don't *have* to use the controls.

[Exit Stage Left]

Bear in mind that your 600 may well be at a higher latitude, and closer to the longest day by up to 2 months. You can work out how much less daylight and twilight that means from this. http://app.photoephemeris.com/?ll=58.374874,-5.016759&center=58.3749,-5.0168&dt=20150723151300%2B0100&z=17&spn=0.00,0.01

It's easy to think that you've got the sleeping sussed from the 600, only to encounter a lot more darkness on PBP.

[rob]

I started 18:15 last time and rode straight through to Carhaix where I had 4hrs sleep and then back to Fougeres where I had another 3hrs and then to the finish in 72hrs.

I recognise that this doesn’t really help your predicament. 

With your timescales you could ride hard for 7hrs, try to get to somewhere close to Villaines and have a nap.   There will be loads of space there as very few people sleep on the first night.   You will need to make sure you don’t miss the cut at Villaines or Fougeres as you catch up after taking a break.

[Rod Marton]

I've generally needed about 6 hours sleep on PBP and take around 72 hours to finish. Though in 2015 I started in sleep debt and needed 12 hours sleep and consequently took a bit longer to finish.

My recommendation for sleep stops would be not to use the control dormitories if possible - I've never got any decent rest in them. There are plenty of unofficial sleep stops - look for the open cafes at night - or alternatively I've my best sleeps under a space blanket behind a hedge. However that's only sensible in good weather.

As for availability: Loudeac and Carhaix are generally full (unless you get there early), the others usually have space.

[postrestant]

1 hour sleep in hotel = 2 hours sleep on a mat.  Roughly speaking.

[Ajax Bay]

Yes we are in the 90 hour group with an 18.30 start. Her body clock just seems to shut her down after 2am which is a worry. I'm very interested to know what sleep others had on PBP.

With your timescales you could ride hard for 7hrs, try to get to somewhere close to Villaines and have a nap.   There will be loads of space there as very few people sleep on the first night.   You will need to make sure you don’t miss the cut at Villaines or Fougeres as you catch up after taking a break.

I too am in the 18:30 start (newbie). Looking at @Rob's suggestion, 11 hours at a little under 25kph will get you to Villaines (216k) by 05:30. Remember that there will be trains so your conservative '22kph' is likely to be exceeded. Getting there or stopping short as necessary (to satisfy your partner's 2am 'shut down'), that control closes just before 0858 so leaving before then will allow you to reach Fougères (306k) with time to spare and building a buffer for the next sleep stop 15 hours later (at midnight). Achieving 22kph over that 'second' day will get you to Carhaix (522 - closes @ 0615). Having dropped behind it, you may find that you don't catch the 'bulge' till a good proportion stop at Loudeac or earlier and you sweep past them. But note no help from trains on 'Day 2'. The '84 hour' crowd will not have caught you up till well after Carhaix.
NB This is a spreadsheet speaking.

[Phil W]

My tactic over the past six years has been to have built up a buffer of approx 6-8 hours by the end of every 24 hours and to use three hours of that for sleep.  If you go into PBP well rested then riding through the first night will likely pass without an attack of the dozies.  A tactic I used for part of last PBP was to stop early and sleep,/ dose late afternoon then ride through the night.  I was happy with my bivvy bag and a quiet hay field. Some off the pop up stalls had sun loungers to sleep in. Some book a hotel for two nights at Loudeac.

[ramchip]

My tactic over the past six years has been to have built up a buffer of approx 6-8 hours by the end of every 24 hours and to use three hours of that for sleep.  If you go into PBP well rested then riding through the first night will likely pass without an attack of the dozies.  A tactic I used for part of last PBP was to stop early and sleep,/ dose late afternoon then ride through the night.  I was happy with my bivvy bag and a quiet hay field. Some off the pop up stalls had sun loungers to sleep in. Some book a hotel for two nights at Loudeac.

What bivvy bag do you use?

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[Drone]

It is important to arrive at the start of PBP well rested. Plan to arrive a couple of days before and just chill out. I struggle to get through a UK 400 without a nap. However I have found that with an early start like yours you will get swept along by the big fast moving groups on PBP. My approach honed over tha last 4 PBPs is to aim to ride through to Carhaix, then get a really good sleep. If the worst comes to the worst have a 30 minute cat nap. If you don't mess about in the controls you'll be ahead of the wave and get a bed in the gym at Carhaix. Bring ear plugs and eye masks. Have six hours sleep then be amazed at the carnage in the main hall when you get up. As long as you're not too fatigued you should be able to get a minimum of 4 hours the next two nights. As first timers its really important to finish in daylight to get the max out of the atmosphere at the arrivee.

PS I'm not a fast rider just a steady middle of the field kind of person.

[frankly frankie]

We don't faff at controls and will be averaging at least 22km ph so we should have the time.

Easier said than done on PBP. 
Almost impossible to get through a control in under an hour, unless you adopt the strategy of not eating at controls, but instead foraging in intermediate towns (which can work very well, provided you avoid the time-sink of a French sit-down midday meal).

[grams]

Yes, if LEL is anything to go by, just because you can get in and out of a petrol station control on a typical audax in ten minutes says nothing about your ability to waste time fannying about at a larger control. The walking distances alone can be a surprising time sink. Add in queuing/waiting/eating food, taking your shoes on and off, figuring out where the toilets are, figuring out where your riding partner's got to, etc. Plus you can't eat and fiddle with your bike/kit simultaneously.

[JulesP]

taking your shoes on and off

Is this because of sore plates (of meat), white carpets at controls, or something else..?