Author Topic: Television - Good or Bad?  (Read 9504 times)

Wowbagger

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Re: Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #25 on: 19 November, 2011, 04:27:10 pm »
It puzzles me why so many people think telly has to be educational or informative. There's nothing wrong with just being entertained.

This is true, but an awful lot of television doesn't educate, inform or entertain. It's just dross.
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Re: Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #26 on: 19 November, 2011, 04:57:04 pm »
In the old days there was BBC and PPTV. Now it's all PPTV. Me, a snob?

citoyen

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Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #27 on: 19 November, 2011, 05:08:02 pm »
Most TV is rubbish. Most cinema is rubbish. Most art is rubbish. Most theatre is rubbish. Most music is rubbish. Most books are rubbish. Don't judge a whole art form/medium by its worst bits.

If the question is whether or not television is a bad influence on society, I'd argue that it is more symptom than cause of society's ills. Shows like X Factor are able to thrive because of the public's inexplicable but insatiable appetite for celebrity. Maybe junk TV feeds this appetite and thereby sustains it, but it isn't wholly to blame.

At its best, television is sublime. The Wire is like a modern-day version of a Dickens or Tolstoy novel in its breadth and complexity, its use of language, its philosophy and politics, its characters, and not least its masterful storytelling. TV will never be all bad as long as it is capable of giving us shows like The Wire, and Forbrydelsen, the new series of which starts tonight and is a definite must-see.

d.

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Re: Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #28 on: 19 November, 2011, 05:19:05 pm »
I am four years older than Lee, and I was nevr into TV when I was younger. I went through long periods of my life with no TV, and haven't had one for years. Very little of what is broadcast interests me. What I am is a musician and a reader. Got nowt to do with intellect, everything to do with personal taste.
Similarly, I have never, ever owned a car. It isn't because I hate the things (and I do) but more because I have absolutely ne interest in them or need for them.
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Re: Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #29 on: 19 November, 2011, 06:24:24 pm »
When I was young a television was something you invested in to save you money. Usually they were rented, because the colour sets were truly unreliable. The man from DER was a regular visitor, we were all fascinated when he replaced big chunks of the set and took them away for repair. Without the tele whichever of my parents was stuck with us for the evening would have had a dreary time. There was no time-shifting back then, so you got what you were given. I can still just about recall a typical Thursday night schedule, pay day, so the best night. It was a fairly short period in historical terms, sets became cheaper, more channels arrived, VCRs, video games that kind of thing. But for a short period TV bound the nation together.
It's not that special any more, except for families at a certain age. I do like the documentaries on BBC4 though. I tried watching some of The Wire when it came onto BBC, but it was on every night, and I couldn't be bothered spending that much time getting into it. I'd been a fan of 'Homicide, Life on the Streets' back in the 90s, but there's other things to do now.

rogerzilla

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Re: Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #30 on: 19 November, 2011, 07:18:37 pm »
Most TV is rubbish. Most cinema is rubbish. Most art is rubbish. Most theatre is rubbish. Most music is rubbish. Most books are rubbish. Don't judge a whole art form/medium by its worst bits.
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Re: Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #31 on: 19 November, 2011, 07:26:42 pm »
I pick and choose all the TV I want on the interwebs; ergo no need for an actual telly.  There is some quality stuff there amongst all the dross.  Having to make an effort to find it means that we're less likely to waste time being distracted by fluff and glitter.  Being able to choose when to watch means that we're less likely to miss the good stuff.  Win-win?

Biggsy

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Re: Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #32 on: 19 November, 2011, 07:51:10 pm »
We might as well call a computer monitor a telly when you're watching telly on it.

I make the effort to press the Guide button on my digi box's remote control, then the Ok button to record a programme that I want to watch.
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citoyen

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Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #33 on: 19 November, 2011, 11:06:52 pm »
Ah, Sturgeon's Law.

Never heard of that before so just looked it up… totally agree with him.

Is this a version of the Pareto principle (aka the 80:20 rule)?

d.
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citoyen

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Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #34 on: 19 November, 2011, 11:21:25 pm »
ergo no need for an actual telly. 

Watching on a computer screen is a very different (inferior, imo) experience to watching on a proper telly. Telly that's worth watching is worth watching in the format it was designed for.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Kim

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Re: Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #35 on: 19 November, 2011, 11:43:05 pm »
Depends on the computer and the telly IMHO.  My computer can do HD and has studio-quality headphones plugged into it.  My telly, before it went to the tip, was a fuzzy old PAL CRT with vignetting from hell and naff sound.  More importantly, I don't have to wear glasses to see the computer screen properly at its comfortable viewing distance.

ian

Re: Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #36 on: 20 November, 2011, 12:02:42 pm »
I have an enormous TV and smug middle class friends. They look at my TV and emit that noise periodically that middle-class people make when expressing disappointment. Like a little psychic fart wafted through a page of the Guardian. I avoid the fundamentalist anti-televisonites but there seems to be a bit of the competition on the "yes, we have a TV, but it's very small and we only use to view meaningful and educational TV, and never for more than a hour, on Fridays in Lent, and once we are done we write essays to explore what we learned from the experience." I know, of course, that they're glued to it, sitting there all evening, TV light dowsing off their pale faces like celebrity bukkake.

Oddly, I don't that much TV, mostly for logistical reasons. I catch the occasional thing on iPlayer (I was persuaded to watch the arch-animal botherer Attenborough). Mostly, it's DVD box sets, which I eat like a fat man with a bottomless bucket of fried chicken. I'm not proud. I do have the The Wire. It's somewhere behind the full collection of Stargate Atlantis.

LEE

Re: Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #37 on: 20 November, 2011, 12:24:13 pm »
In my opinion the biggest aid to watching quality TV is the PVR (Sky+, TIVO, HDD Recorders..call them what you will), more so than Video recorders.

It's now so easy to search and store things you want to watch and "series link" them.  I can say that it's transformed the way I use the TV.

I hardly watch any TV as it is transmitted, in the case of commercial channels it just doesn't make sense to, I like to use my "skip the adverts" button.  Over the course of the week my PVR will be quietly creating a nice little library of things to watch over the weekend.

It helps soften the blow of returning from holidays ("Yipppee..I 've got 3 QIs and 3 HIGNFYs  to watch")

In effect you become the station-manager of your own personalised TV channel.

It allows you to take control of the TV rather than the other way around.


As discussed above...a computer used to watch brodcast images is ...a Television.  Let's not get snobby about that now.

rogerzilla

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Re: Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #38 on: 20 November, 2011, 12:48:55 pm »
Do people still watch pr0n on televisions?  I don't mean late night Ch5 "documentaries" here, but the sort of DVDs that come in brown envelopes from Holland.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

LEE

Re: Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #39 on: 20 November, 2011, 09:39:47 pm »
Do people still watch pr0n on televisions?  I don't mean late night Ch5 "documentaries" here, but the sort of DVDs that come in brown envelopes from Holland.

I never watch any myself (but I always use "CCleaner" on my PC, just to make sure that I haven't been).

citoyen

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Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #40 on: 20 November, 2011, 09:46:45 pm »
Depends on the computer and the telly IMHO.

It's not just about screen size/picture quality though - I prefer watching TV as a communal activity. YMMV.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

border-rider

Re: Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #41 on: 20 November, 2011, 09:57:07 pm »
We have a computer monitor functioning as a TV in the kitchen, and a TV functioning as a computer monitor functioning as a TV in the lounge

I'm not sure what the difference is, really.

Chris S

Re: Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #42 on: 20 November, 2011, 10:10:14 pm »
My whole TV experience now comes from the interweb, via iPlayer and its other-channel chums. It forces me to pick and choose more what I watch. This may mean I miss stuff - but I don't really care.

It also means I don't have to pay for a license - which is more of a principle than a cash issue.

I've managed to break a few bad habits too - like watching the news every day. I'm so much happier now I don't watch the news. I'm quite happy to completely lose touch with current affairs to be honest - as I really don't need to be reminded over and over again just how selfish, aggressive and offensive our species can be.

Re: Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #43 on: 20 November, 2011, 10:57:50 pm »
Mostly, it's DVD box sets, which I eat like a fat man with a bottomless bucket of fried chicken. I'm not proud. I do have the The Wire. It's somewhere behind the full collection of Stargate Atlantis.

This.
Buffy. CSI. Supernatural. Misfits. Pushing Daisies. Weeds. All sorts of shite teen american dross, brought into the house by No1Daughter. I miss her :( Her greater time/investigations into 'stuff we'll all probably like' has brought loads of entertainment here.
We'll get Stargate when it's cheaper...
I'm with Kim, I hate telly-as-wallpaper, and I hate what it turns me into, and I hate how it makes other people in my house lazy and inattentive and absent.

O, and I don't miss The News, either.

I used to listen to much more radio than I do now. Don't know why I stopped, really, but I've got out of the habit of it.

Kim

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Re: Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #44 on: 20 November, 2011, 11:06:58 pm »
We'll get Stargate when it's cheaper...

I borrowed the set from a friend, and it kept me going for most of last winter.  Be sure to keep a running tally of the number of times Daniel dies.

barakta

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Re: Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #45 on: 21 November, 2011, 02:02:02 am »
We don't have a telly for some of the reasons Kim lists upthread but there was also the subtitles issue - so many things are utter shite and what isn't utter shite often doesn't have good enough subtitles (bollocks timing, too many mistakes) or they break mid episode or mid series.  Even with subtitles I find TV incredibly tiring, so it's not relaxing for me cos I'm trying to hear and parse the audio, read the subtitles and follow the plot. It is one of the things which reminds me that I am severely deaf, I can hear enough speech to try and parse but not enough for that not to be exhausting. 

I find I am bad at the being able to do x at the same time every week, so when we had a PVR (MythTV++) we recorded whole series and watched them in batch which was great but our TV was downstairs in a cold dining room.  In the winter which is most prime TV weather we'd rather be upstairs where it's less cold.

When the TV broke I felt that I was so unhappy with the BBC that I wasn't willing to pay towards a TV licence while they were putting subtitle quality so low down their agenda (iPlayer had 150m initially invested in it and no subtitles at all for the first 18 months - not good enough, and the message that sends is loud and clear!).  For me the last straw was the abysmal quality of the subtitles during the 2010 election debates on iPlayer etc I formally complained to the BBC about the brokenness and they simply didn't care. I got no response to my written complaint and the rage/fury was doing me more harm than good.  Better not to try and care than to actually get into something and have the subtitles fail and suddenly it's not accessible anymore.  I don't need any more accessfail rage in my life so I 99% gave up on TV.  I occasionally watch something good on iPlayer but I still have a 10-20% subtitles fucked up fail rate (often they fail about 20 minutes into a really good prog) which is a lot better than 18 months ago.  Cos "I don't care" I simply give up and walk away - I'm too tired to complain and fight the lazy broadcasting corporations.  I don't use anything non BBC watch again replaying system cos I've never managed to get the subtitles to work well and I see enough of the fail via deaf-uk-tech.

As a child I really struggled with TV as most children got home from school and vegged out in front of the box.  I couldn't cope with it as it added to the overload of audio I'd had from school and I couldn't access it.  Before I learned to read independently this was the main cause of tantrums that there wasn't much I could do while all my friends/siblings did TV.  We didn't have a caption decoder and for some reason my parents didn't know about subtitles (although pre reading they'd have been minimal use).  Eventually at about 6-7 I learned to read so when everyone else did telly I'd be in a corner with a book which solved the tantrum problem. 

My favourite telly for years was The Snowman and Cartoons because they were easy to hear and visually excellent - my grandfather had a pair of VCRs from 1981 onwards and used to keep us entertained with his home made compilations of cartoons etc. Eventually in 1991 my dad exchanged a computer monitor for a TV with a friend which had subtitles so I got into working out subtitles and reading Ceefax which I loved. I could read Ceefax for hours! I was annoyed to discover European TVs have a memory thing which stores Ceefax pages in a sort of RAM so you can flick between them fast - I did this in Holland on a friend's TV *ENVY*.

I can't do radio at all as it quickly gives me a splitting headache and I have to put 100% of my attention just to make sense of it.  Even after about 10 minutes I generally can't follow radio speech cos my ability to focus gives out.  Music radio is OK but I don't listen to music I don't know well much.

I suspect I am a telly snob in that live TV is impossible to subtitle well and is hideously tiring even by telly standards to watch.  I hate it, I always have.  I grew up in a house where live "reality" TV was hated and gameshows were loud and horrid and eww.  I really really hate reality TV cos the speech is dreadful quality wise and it's boring and hard work even if I was interested in it.  I stuck out the first series of big brother cos I was a lazy student at the time but haven't watched any of it since then.

We didn't have the TV on unless it was being watched for something although my mum now has it for background noise which is fine unless I'm trying to talk to her in which case I ask for it to be turned off.  I can't talk in a room with a muted telly in it because the flickering images are so distracting.

Give me the Internet any day, more reading :)

Re: Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #46 on: 21 November, 2011, 10:06:52 am »
My laptop is connected to a big telly as a monitor right now.  Bad for the planet, I suspect.

My parents never had TV till I was in my late teens and bought a 2nd hand b&w set home.  When I left home they bought their own!   
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urban_biker

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Re: Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #47 on: 22 November, 2011, 11:56:20 am »
Mostly, it's DVD box sets, which I eat like a fat man with a bottomless bucket of fried chicken. I'm not proud. I do have the The Wire. It's somewhere behind the full collection of Stargate Atlantis.

This.
Buffy. CSI. Supernatural. Misfits. Pushing Daisies. Weeds. All sorts of shite teen american dross, brought into the house by No1Daughter. I miss her :( Her greater time/investigations into 'stuff we'll all probably like' has brought loads of entertainment here.
We'll get Stargate when it's cheaper...
I'm with Kim, I hate telly-as-wallpaper, and I hate what it turns me into, and I hate how it makes other people in my house lazy and inattentive and absent.

O, and I don't miss The News, either.

I used to listen to much more radio than I do now. Don't know why I stopped, really, but I've got out of the habit of it.


As shite teen American dross goes - Buffy is beautifully written - and extremely clever dross.
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urban_biker

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Re: Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #48 on: 22 November, 2011, 12:03:29 pm »
On the subject of TV Good or Bad. I like it a lot and the good stuff is really good. But there is something to be said for collapsing in front of some unchallenging TV for an hour or so each evening. I have to say that the Americans are remarkably good at churning this stuff out.

I'm currently enjoying, The Mentalist, NCIS and Castle - mostly as torrent downloads as UK TV is always a bit behind. I also record any interesting documentaries from BBC4 that catch my eye. Oh yes and HIGNFY is still one of my favourite things to watch.

Have to agree that PVRs and bit torrent are wonderful things.



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Re: Television - Good or Bad?
« Reply #49 on: 22 November, 2011, 12:38:41 pm »
I'm a big fan of film and TV DVD box sets, mainly so I can watch stuff I want to rather than what's available - somebody had to make that good stuff first though, so TV is by no means all crap.

It's easy to forget just how awful much TV content has always been.  TV isn't mostly crap now, it's always been crap - anyone remember the dreadful shite they used to programme on Saturdays in the 1970s, worst of which had to be 'Summertime Special'?

Currently we have Bruce Forsyth fronting an entertainment show on prime time BBC on Saturdays.  This compares to the 1970s when we had Bruce Forsyth fronting an entertainment show on prime time BBC on Saturdays.  I can't see a lot of difference other than the intrusive branding logos and increasing frequenecy of ad breaks on some channels (thank you PVR for saving me from that when I do record programmes).

However there has been great stuff in every decade and I think the last ten years or so has brought forth some pretty special entertainment - I'm a big fan of HBO shows and stuff like The Sopranos, The Wire, Band of Brothers, Rome and Deadwood is some of the best TV I have every seen and compares favourably with the best of decades before.

Edge of Darkness* still stands up well and it's overdue a repeat viewing at Festung Weasel.


*Craven's relationship with his daughter just gets creepier and more wrong each time I watch it.