Author Topic: I am not a vegan...  (Read 40494 times)

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
I am not a vegan...
« on: 26 January, 2014, 01:01:34 pm »
I am not a vegan but I really can't see why it should be SO difficult to cater for a vegan.

A Twitter contact had a rough time recently, remaining effectively unfed on a social night out.

If I were to become vegetarian, I would also become a vegan. It strikes me the dairy and egg producers are involved in more wanton animal death than those that produce meat from animals that have grown outdoors to near maturity. I'm afraid I like animal products too much and don't have the moral gumption to give them up.

If a vegan friend popped in to your home, would providing sustenance be a (big) problem?

Clare

  • Is in NZ
Re: I am not a vegan...
« Reply #1 on: 26 January, 2014, 01:28:20 pm »
That depends on just exactly how 'vegan' the vegan is.

As a cow's milk intolerant vegetarian* I can very easily cater for vegans, we eat vegan quite a lot, however I have come across vegans who will not eat anything which may have been in contact with or even near to an animal or part thereof, this includes such things as tins of plum tomatoes which are produced in a factory where meat is also processed. Or the one I knew as a student who would not eat anything if the company which produced it also produced foods with meat in, even if on a different site. How could I be certain that the farm that produced the vegetables I was using didn't also profit from animal husbandry?

But yeah, in general a bog standard vegan is very easy to cater for.




*The vegetarian bit is because I just don't like meat and has nothing to do with any moral stand.

Re: I am not a vegan...
« Reply #2 on: 26 January, 2014, 01:35:08 pm »
If a vegan friend popped in to your home, would providing sustenance be a (big) problem?
I view it as my responsibility as host to provide something suitable for a guest, provided I've been informed in advance.

It's hardly beyond the wit of man to put together a vegetable risotto.

I'm not vegan/vegetarian as I honestly do think of animals as deserving of lesser rights, but it's not my place to judge anyone with higher moral standards than me. That doesn't mean every food item I consume is animal product-based!

If someone popped in unannounced I might have more of a problem. That's true of anyone though- we're often out of (for example) milk if you were after a cup of tea.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: I am not a vegan...
« Reply #3 on: 26 January, 2014, 01:48:55 pm »
When I said 'popped in' I meant unannounced. A hot meal might take some effort but drink and snack?
Well, they could have an 'infusion', fruit juice or back coffee/tea with a handful of cashews and anything from my overflowing fruit bowl.

Anyway my gripe was with restaurants who couldn't feed a vegan.
They are in the business of providing food.
Why can't they feed without stuffing in some unacceptable ingredients?

It can't/shouldn't be that difficult...

Re: I am not a vegan...
« Reply #4 on: 26 January, 2014, 01:55:34 pm »
I don't do well with people popping in unannounced full stop, I'm afraid. Living in a studio flat with everything on show means it is often not in a fit state for company unless serious tidying has happened. Some forum members may have discovered this and, remarkably, still remain on good terms with me (I think, anyway). (This may or may not improve once myself, Rob and the dog and all our possessions aren't crammed into 35 sqm of flat.)

I also wouldn't be able to offer someone a biscuit with their tea because I cannot have them in the house because I don't know the meaning of self control.

Restaurants shouldn't struggle, however. I have struggled when travelling in countries that think no meal is complete without a bit of meat and wrapped the garlic mushrooms in bacon without warning.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: I am not a vegan...
« Reply #5 on: 26 January, 2014, 02:01:13 pm »
Easy!

What used to piss me off most was when I went self-catering near Marmande.  I realised that, far from the impression you'd get from the restaurants, France is the best place in the world to be a vegan, with fantastic produce easily available.

Feeding a vegan is not hard.  And most vegetarians and meat-addicts can eat the same without ill-effects.

Oh - and, NSTN, I don't tend to tidy for guests.  Take me as I am.  Perhaps that's an overreaction to my mother, who would clean obsessively, but hey - that's fine.
Getting there...

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
I am not a vegan...
« Reply #6 on: 26 January, 2014, 02:21:25 pm »
If I didn't have anything suitable in the house to feed a guest, I'd go out and get something. Even if the guest were unannounced.

But I probably would be able to rustle something up from what's in the cupboards at any time. (Looking at what's in the cupboards right now, if probably make a chickpea & veg curry.)
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: I am not a vegan...
« Reply #7 on: 26 January, 2014, 02:42:44 pm »
I have come across vegans who will not eat anything which may have been in contact with or even near to an animal or part thereof, this includes such things as tins of plum tomatoes which are produced in a factory where meat is also processed. Or the one I knew as a student who would not eat anything if the company which produced it also produced foods with meat in, even if on a different site. How could I be certain that the farm that produced the vegetables I was using didn't also profit from animal husbandry?
I'm afraid that is taking hospitality too far in my book. If you're that fussy (for however good a reason) then please don't inflict yourself on others who will probably be trying to do their best.
'Ordinary' vegans are quite easy. You can start with beans on toast (no butter) and move up from that.
"No matter how slow you go, you're still lapping everybody on the couch."

Re: I am not a vegan...
« Reply #8 on: 26 January, 2014, 02:43:33 pm »
It strikes me the dairy and egg producers are involved in more wanton animal death than those that produce meat from animals that have grown outdoors to near maturity.
50% of all chicks hatched for egg production are macerated or gassed soon after hatching due to the fact that they are born male.
Haggerty F, Haggerty R, Tomkins, Noble, Carrick, Robson, Crapper, Dewhurst, Macintyre, Treadmore, Davitt.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: I am not a vegan...
« Reply #9 on: 26 January, 2014, 02:51:35 pm »
If there's a possibility of something non-vegan in the bread, there's always a potato I could shove into the microwave.
I am fortunate to inhabit a suburban semi, which has well-stocked cupboards, fridge, freezer and fruit bowl.
The place is untidy; two bikes in the house, three outside in sheds and panniers, shoes, bike bits & clutter everywhere.
Tough if you don't like it...
(Surely most yacfers would feel at home with all the bike clobber?...)

Re: I am not a vegan...
« Reply #10 on: 26 January, 2014, 02:59:38 pm »
What used to piss me off most was when I went self-catering near Marmande.  I realised that, far from the impression you'd get from the restaurants, France is the best place in the world to be a vegan, with fantastic produce easily available.
The French have enough trouble coming to terms with the concept of vegetarian never mind vegan.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: I am not a vegan...
« Reply #11 on: 26 January, 2014, 03:11:15 pm »
I could rustle up a nice whole wheat pasta and pesto in a few minutes. More epic vegan creations would require some pre-soaking of chick peas and beans so would require a bit more notice, but the ingredients are all here.

I've served up a vegan leek and potato soup and casserole as an option at an Audax control just in case someone required it!

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: I am not a vegan...
« Reply #12 on: 26 January, 2014, 03:11:49 pm »
My ex was[1] a vegan when we were together, so though I'm a card-carrying carnivore, I have a reasonable understanding of the issues involved.


If I were to become vegetarian, I would also become a vegan. It strikes me the dairy and egg producers are involved in more wanton animal death than those that produce meat from animals that have grown outdoors to near maturity.

Agreed.  However, since I have such a hard time finding food that I'm willing and able to eat, that simply isn't an option.  I'm at least as awkward to feed as a vegan, but lack the respect that comes with an easy label or associated moral high ground.

I routinely avoid social situations that involve food, so as not to cause offence.  It sucks, and as such I make a point to respect anyone else's dietary requirements so as not to inflict that sort of thing on others.  It does mean there has to be a dialogue though, if only about how food manufacturers that put whey powder in everything are in league with Stan.


Quote
If a vegan friend popped in to your home, would providing sustenance be a (big) problem?

Probably not significantly worse than a meat-eater appearing unannounced.  We have enough rice, pasta and beans and chips type food stockpiled in case of inability to cook and/or get to the shops, and there's the jar of Marmite[2] with the 2006 expiry date that pretty much only gets eaten by visiting vegans on the basis that "it's not like it's going to go off, is it?".  There's an abundance of good takeaway available locally for emergencies and special occasions, too.

So yeah, what it really comes down to whether it's the lives-on-beige-carbohydrates-from-the-freezer kind of vegan or the organic-hippy-food-snob-cooks-everything-from-scratch kind of vegan.  The latter can provide their own lentils, mysterious fungus and horrid seedy bread, because Tescos.


[1] But has since become vegetarian for health reasons that were incompatible with a dairy-free diet.
[2] Mostly used for bike photos.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: I am not a vegan...
« Reply #13 on: 26 January, 2014, 03:13:00 pm »
It strikes me the dairy and egg producers are involved in more wanton animal death than those that produce meat from animals that have grown outdoors to near maturity.
50% of all chicks hatched for egg production are macerated or gassed soon after hatching due to the fact that they are born male.

And I really shouldn't consider the fate of calves born to keep the cows in milk...

Clare

  • Is in NZ
Re: I am not a vegan...
« Reply #14 on: 26 January, 2014, 03:19:16 pm »
I have come across vegans who will not eat anything which may have been in contact with or even near to an animal or part thereof, this includes such things as tins of plum tomatoes which are produced in a factory where meat is also processed. Or the one I knew as a student who would not eat anything if the company which produced it also produced foods with meat in, even if on a different site. How could I be certain that the farm that produced the vegetables I was using didn't also profit from animal husbandry?
I'm afraid that is taking hospitality too far in my book. If you're that fussy (for however good a reason) then please don't inflict yourself on others who will probably be trying to do their best.
'Ordinary' vegans are quite easy. You can start with beans on toast (no butter) and move up from that.

Hell yes, I fully agree. On the other hand it was incredibly easy to wind them up about it with questions such as "How do you know that the miller who supplies the flour for your vegan bread doesn't also supply flour to the local pie factory?" and discussion about whether Bass used isinglass in their brewing process and whether their spent mash was used as farm food. So that's Marmite on toast off the menu then.

Anyway said vegan was back on a full meat diet soon after they graduated and their social group had dispersed around the country.


Re: I am not a vegan...
« Reply #15 on: 26 January, 2014, 03:27:37 pm »
Reminds me of the baker in the whole food shop I used to use in Southampton. He was on a Zen macrobiotic diet, which was apparently vegan with the added complication of needing to balance the yin and yang in his food. He was a good baker, but one of the most miserable people I've ever met.
"No matter how slow you go, you're still lapping everybody on the couch."

red marley

Re: I am not a vegan...
« Reply #16 on: 26 January, 2014, 03:28:22 pm »
As a veggie of 33 years sandwiched around being a vegan for 3 years, I don't think I would find it a practical problem to feed an unannounced vegan appearing on the doorstep. Especially as soya milk is our white liquid sustenance of choice. For me, veggie/veganism isn't quite as binary as it appeared to me when I was 13, but I acknowledge that the guest might have their own reasons for their diet. I've long since given up judging others by what they eat (I'm sure I was an insufferable teenager when it came to The Rules for eating morally).

As a guest turning up at someone else's, I would certainly not expect them to have to make awkward accommodations for my diet. I tend to apologetically say what I don't eat in order to make it clear I wouldn't expect the host to go out of their way to arrange something special. Thankfully most people seem fine with veggie stuff. I think vegan cooking can be a little more challenging for many who are not used to it, and eating out at friends and restaurants was one of the reasons I stopped being vegan.


BTW Feline - most common pestos are not vegan, containing a fair amount of cheese.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: I am not a vegan...
« Reply #17 on: 26 January, 2014, 03:58:06 pm »
I can think of one or two diets it would be impossible to cater for at home even with advanced notice - traditional orthodox Brahmins, for instance, will not eat anything cooked by or even in the same kitchen as a non-Brahmin. Though I suppose even in that case, you could just put your kitchen at their disposal...
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Re: I am not a vegan...
« Reply #18 on: 26 January, 2014, 04:01:33 pm »
If I'm aware in advance of people's food needs, then I aim to cater for 'em.  I habitually have in the house a range of Kim-friendly foods, an assortment of keto-friendly sustenance, some easy foods for white-food only small children, a wide range of carbs for hungry audaxers and the makings of a couple of sorts of cake and/or flapjacks if needed plus an online account that means easy access to a lot of takeaway choices.  And as a general rule, if you'd rather raid the kitchen and fend for yourself you're welcome to do so!

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: I am not a vegan...
« Reply #19 on: 26 January, 2014, 04:04:18 pm »
And as a general rule, if you'd rather raid the kitchen and fend for yourself you're welcome to do so!

I think this is the best approach, along with not being hung up about people bringing their own known-good food.

Re: I am not a vegan...
« Reply #20 on: 26 January, 2014, 05:05:39 pm »
As a veggie of 33 years sandwiched around being a vegan for 3 years, I don't think I would find it a practical problem to feed an unannounced vegan appearing on the doorstep. Especially as soya milk is our white liquid sustenance of choice. For me, veggie/veganism isn't quite as binary as it appeared to me when I was 13, but I acknowledge that the guest might have their own reasons for their diet. I've long since given up judging others by what they eat (I'm sure I was an insufferable teenager when it came to The Rules for eating morally).

As a guest turning up at someone else's, I would certainly not expect them to have to make awkward accommodations for my diet. I tend to apologetically say what I don't eat in order to make it clear I wouldn't expect the host to go out of their way to arrange something special. Thankfully most people seem fine with veggie stuff. I think vegan cooking can be a little more challenging for many who are not used to it, and eating out at friends and restaurants was one of the reasons I stopped being vegan.


BTW Feline - most common pestos are not vegan, containing a fair amount of cheese.

My Pesto is, I grow the basil on the kitchen windowsill  ;D

Re: I am not a vegan...
« Reply #21 on: 26 January, 2014, 05:14:50 pm »


BTW Feline - most common pestos are not vegan, containing a fair amount of cheese.

Most are not even vegetarian. Of the usual jars, only the organic ones are. Fresh pesto usually is veggie, although not vegan.
Quote from: Kim
^ This woman knows what she's talking about.

Re: I am not a vegan...
« Reply #22 on: 26 January, 2014, 05:15:58 pm »
I've been veggie for a very long time, and like the idea of veganism (eggs in particular are a bit of a weird thing to eat, really). I couldn't do it, though, because of cheese. Cheese rules all.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: I am not a vegan...
« Reply #23 on: 26 January, 2014, 05:34:21 pm »

I couldn't do it, though, because of cheese. Cheese rules all.

Of all the arguments against veganism, this is by far the strongest.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: I am not a vegan...
« Reply #24 on: 26 January, 2014, 05:36:28 pm »
I did miss cheese when vegan, but only having children has stopped me from being one any more.

Maybe when the Little Duck leaves home...
Getting there...