Author Topic: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.  (Read 20877 times)

Seineseeker

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Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #25 on: 15 February, 2011, 05:35:54 pm »
This is ludicrous:

From cycling news:
"the fact that it could not be shown conclusively that Contador had deliberately taken the product worked in his favour."

that goes totally against the whole anti drug policy of all sport, that the athlete is responsible for what was found in his system.

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #26 on: 15 February, 2011, 05:45:32 pm »
Yes, though it seems more in line with general principles of criminal law in other fields.

It looks to me like a lose-lose-lose situation for the UCI. If they don't appeal, they lose all credibility in fighting doping. If they do appeal and win, that still means they awarded the biggest prize in cycling to a cheat. If they appeal and lose, they look incompetent or, possibly, vindictive.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #27 on: 15 February, 2011, 05:46:40 pm »
I think LWaB is spot on. It's a political decision.

The Spanish committee are playing to a domestic audience. They'll let someone else do the dirty work if any gets done at all.  Either that or it will emerge that AC produced some new miraculous evidence/proof.

The reaction of the peloton will be revealing.

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #28 on: 15 February, 2011, 05:52:30 pm »
The reaction of the peloton will be revealing.
Glad to see the back of him (assuming his acquittal is overturned) or afraid for their own positions?
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #29 on: 15 February, 2011, 06:03:14 pm »
I think there will be a panoply of reactions  ;)

Seineseeker

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Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #30 on: 15 February, 2011, 06:08:47 pm »
Panoply indeed. I can't see the peloton being too bothered, it's professional sport, anything goes.

Did he actually provide any meat that was contaminated? I mean he can't really because it's bad for the Spanish meat industry! Looking forward to other amazing explanations. A bit like Landis and his testosterone, Contador can't believe he got tested positive for that when he was taking all those other things!

Rhys W

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Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #31 on: 15 February, 2011, 06:39:28 pm »
I'm not so sure. I think the UCI will appeal this one. They have to if they want a win/win situation. An succesful appeal will give the appearance of trying to do something. If they appeal and CAS upholds the aquittal, everybody wins (except clean sport), but it won't leave the UCI with much egg on it's face.

I don't think they will - it's too risky for them. Contador could sue for loss of earnings if he's suspended and subsequently cleared.

And the peloton will remain tight-lipped as usual.

Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #32 on: 15 February, 2011, 06:55:14 pm »
A pint says not on both counts  ;D

andygates

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Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #33 on: 15 February, 2011, 07:17:09 pm »
Time for a juicy nandrolone steak. 
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Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #34 on: 19 February, 2011, 11:51:47 am »
French Anti-doping Expert Suggests New Analysis For Contador’s Samples | Cyclingnews.com

So, this is repeating the theories that emerged immediately after news of the positive that the clenbuterol in Contador's system was introduced from a bag a blood. The problem being that the test for plasticisers is not yet ratified by WADA.

What this French guy seems to be saying is that the science is there, but it's use by anti-doping authorities needs to catch up with the science used by the dopers.

Contador's weaselly denials, threats to retire (which turned into a determination to fight the injustice  ::-). ) and emotive appeals make me want to puke. His claim that his acquittal by the REFC is 'a step forward for cycling' make me hope that his 2009 tour win will be his last.

Funny how so many other clenbuterol positives seem to be cropping up. I guess they all use the same dodgy butcher in Irun.




Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #35 on: 20 February, 2011, 09:18:30 pm »
The Spanish meat producers alliance has condemned Contador's defence, - "The rider attacks this production sector with impunity and falsifies the truth, calling into question the exhaustive control systems that are applied to bovine meat in the European Union and also in our country,"

They are happy to throw him to the wolves, be interesting to see which way the politicians jump - to support Contador or the Spanish meat industry!
"What a long, strange trip it's been", Truckin'


Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #37 on: 24 March, 2011, 07:54:28 pm »
The even better news is that Rhys owes me a pint  ;D

Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #38 on: 25 March, 2011, 07:57:36 pm »
The even better news is that Rhys owes me a pint  ;D

I dissed your opinion too but was wise enough not to wager anything on it.  I might make you an espresso if you're good..  I'm glad you were right.

Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #39 on: 26 March, 2011, 12:34:04 pm »
Im glad too, but not particularly because I think Contador is any worse than anyone else, but the interference of Spanish PM in this makes me feel slightly sick. Plus Bertie's self-piteous whining was not very endearing

Rhys W

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Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #40 on: 26 March, 2011, 05:28:32 pm »

Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #41 on: 07 April, 2011, 02:26:03 pm »

Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #42 on: 26 July, 2011, 04:32:14 pm »
I've just seen on twitter that the CAS have delayed the hearing until November. FFS get on with it.

Have WADA made plasticisers illegal yet?

Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #43 on: 26 July, 2011, 05:37:13 pm »
I've just seen on twitter that the CAS have delayed the hearing until November. FFS get on with it.

Have WADA made plasticisers illegal yet?

This is getting silly. Either he doped or he didn't. If you can't prove it, drop it.
The journey is always more important than the destination

Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #44 on: 19 September, 2011, 09:32:59 am »
Looks like WADA may be moving the goalposts - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14952870

Interesting to note that higher clenbuterol readings haven't been prosecuted in other sports.


David Martin

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Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #45 on: 19 September, 2011, 11:03:42 am »
I have done a little bit of research.

1. How much clen is accumulated in beef muscle?
2. How rapid is the turnover (if you stop feeding the animal clen, how much is retained over time)
3. What is the clearance in the body?

Short answer, if it was a steak then it was absolutely riddled with clen, which makes no sense at all.

If you were givign clen to animals to boost lean weight you would typically stop 7-14 days before slaughter. Firstly because there is little benefit giving the drugs up to slaughter and secondly it gives them a chance to clear the system so they are not detected using standard methods. As soon as you stop giving clen the muscle concentration drops by 10-fold every day.

Clearance from the body - t1/2 is about 8 hours.
 
How much clen in a steak? About 15ng/g, so about 3.5 ug for an 8 oz steak.
Divide that by the volume of blood and you get 750pg/mL. Or about 15 times the detected amount. Now taking into account clearance rates, it must have been either a rather large steak, or the cow was drugged up until the day it was slaughtered. And there was a very efficient transfer of clen to the blood from oral ingestion. 75-90% passes straight through and is cleared via urine or faeces.

So either bertie was very, very unlucky or there was an exgenous source of clenbuterol, perhaps remaining after a regime from whence blood was stored for re-infusion later.

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Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #46 on: 19 September, 2011, 12:08:42 pm »
Well I'm persuaded.

I'm guessing this is relatively public knowledge?  So why all the fannying about?

"What a long, strange trip it's been", Truckin'

Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #47 on: 19 September, 2011, 01:01:57 pm »
Interesting to note that higher clenbuterol readings haven't been prosecuted in other sports.

The table tennis player is discussed more here http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/7408/WADA-chief-confirms-that-Agency-wont-appeal-Dimitrij-Ovtcharovs-Clenbuterol-case-dismissal.aspx. Seems' he'd recently competed in China and provided a hair sample.

Judging by David's numbers a pretty low threshold is reasonable, possibly de-facto due to what could have been detected until recently.

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

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Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #48 on: 19 September, 2011, 01:19:25 pm »
When the first reports came out about the clenbuterol profile - Contador was tested three times - once with no clenbuterol, once with a tiny amount, and then once with about 1/2 the tiny amount.  That suggests that, if there was a blood transfusion, then there should be evidence from the other blood values from the first of these three samples and the second two, to indicate that he had taken some fresh blood on board (with or without a proven test for plasticisers). 

I presume this evidence has been available to both parties for some time so am confused about what the long wait is for - unless it is because they can't prove either way on the low clenbuterol sample and are waiting for a de minimis limit to be applied to the substance.
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Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #49 on: 21 September, 2011, 09:17:16 am »
Now they're talking about having allowable levels of clenbuterol. If that's brought in before Contador's case is heard he'll probably get off.

Maybe that's why his lawyers were stalling.