Author Topic: [HAMR] When will Kurt take Godwin's record?  (Read 9117 times)

Re: When will Kurt take Godwin's record?
« Reply #25 on: 21 December, 2015, 11:13:40 pm »
Given that it was common practice for cyclists to draft lorries into the '50s and lorries in the '30s were limited to a perfect pace for a cyclist covering miles, it is absurd to think that Tommy didn't sit behind motor vehicles.

Given the toxic state of vehicle emissions in the 1930's [none of us were there mind, but I can't imagine they were better than the 1960's and beyond - god only knows they were dreadful then] it's also absurd to think that drafting a lorry was a pleasant experience...for any length of time. And we're talking long, long periods of time for it to be a significant factor in an endeavour like this, not just the odd mile or two.
Garry Broad

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Re: When will Kurt take Godwin's record?
« Reply #26 on: 21 December, 2015, 11:28:52 pm »
Ay, burt many of them had chimneys that sent the toxic fumes high into the air, so well over the head of the following cyclist. Furthermore, a cross-wind would take them in a completely different direction.
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Re: When will Kurt take Godwin's record?
« Reply #27 on: 21 December, 2015, 11:42:37 pm »
Ay, burt many of them had chimneys that sent the toxic fumes high into the air, so well over the head of the following cyclist. Furthermore, a cross-wind would take them in a completely different direction.

High into the air? How fast were they travelling? Not very fast by all accounts. I still can't imagine it to be a particularly
easy passage for a cyclist for hours on end. And cross winds are very unpredictable. As we all know.

Sorry I still think his record to be almost unbelievable given the era.
Nothing that Steve and Kurt have done over the last 12 months has made me think otherwise.
Garry Broad

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Re: When will Kurt take Godwin's record?
« Reply #28 on: 22 December, 2015, 09:57:47 am »
Take a look at the tandem trike records of Arnold and Grimes set in 1954. They are still unbeatable as they were such a fine pair of athletes.

It’s Crimes not Grimes and they are more commonly referred to in End to End circles and the Trike world as Crimes and Arnold (not Arnold and Crimes) in that order as that is how they rode – steerer and stoker.

They were, at the time and for the next four years, the fastest on ANY machine to do the End to End despite having spent 6 hours off the longbarrow  tending to knee and stomach troubles.
Dave Keeler bettered their time in 1958 - but he was on a bike.
It was 12 years before a tandem bike bettered their time (Swinden and Withers in 1966).
Several attempts have been made on it - Kenny and Taylor got within 70 miles - but it remains unbroken.



Re: When will Kurt take Godwin's record?
« Reply #29 on: 22 December, 2015, 11:42:50 am »
Given that it was common practice for cyclists to draft lorries into the '50s and lorries in the '30s were limited to a perfect pace for a cyclist covering miles, it is absurd to think that Tommy didn't sit behind motor vehicles.

Given the toxic state of vehicle emissions in the 1930's [none of us were there mind, but I can't imagine they were better than the 1960's and beyond - god only knows they were dreadful then] it's also absurd to think that drafting a lorry was a pleasant experience...for any length of time. And we're talking long, long periods of time for it to be a significant factor in an endeavour like this, not just the odd mile or two.

It's more a case of how you avoid doing it, given that lorries are moving at the speed that you are going, are slowing down on hills, and there's little other traffic due to petrol rationing. Diesel was used for heavy haulage in the main.

Quote
In those days there was no traffic on the roads only other lorries doing the same thing. I am not sure whether he was rationed for fuel but economy was always in his mind. He would not hammer up hill with a full load but change down without flogging the engine. Reading in one of his logbooks, I saw that Red petrol was 1/7½d
.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/40/a8811740.shtml

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Re: When will Kurt take Godwin's record?
« Reply #30 on: 22 December, 2015, 02:04:26 pm »
Given that it was common practice for cyclists to draft lorries into the '50s and lorries in the '30s were limited to a perfect pace for a cyclist covering miles, it is absurd to think that Tommy didn't sit behind motor vehicles.

Given the toxic state of vehicle emissions in the 1930's [none of us were there mind, but I can't imagine they were better than the 1960's and beyond - god only knows they were dreadful then] it's also absurd to think that drafting a lorry was a pleasant experience...for any length of time. And we're talking long, long periods of time for it to be a significant factor in an endeavour like this, not just the odd mile or two.

Is that like the arguments we had on here a few years back about how audax routes shouldn't be rejected as underdistance if the underdistance bit involved riding on an A road, because nobody in their right mind would ride on an A road? 

Re: When will Kurt take Godwin's record?
« Reply #31 on: 22 December, 2015, 02:12:42 pm »

Take a look at the tandem trike records of Arnold and Grimes set in 1954. They are still unbeatable as they were such a fine pair of athletes.

It’s Crimes not Grimes and they are more commonly referred to in End to End circles and the Trike world as Crimes and Arnold (not Arnold and Crimes) in that order as that is how they rode – steerer and stoker.

They were, at the time and for the next four years, the fastest on ANY machine to do the End to End despite having spent 6 hours off the longbarrow  tending to knee and stomach troubles.
Dave Keeler bettered their time in 1958 - but he was on a bike.
It was 12 years before a tandem bike bettered their time (Swinden and Withers in 1966).
Several attempts have been made on it - Kenny and Taylor got within 70 miles - but it remains unbroken.

Apologies for the errors.  It still proved that records set many decades ago can be of such a standard that modern day riders can't beat them or only increase them by a small amount.

Re: When will Kurt take Godwin's record?
« Reply #32 on: 22 December, 2015, 03:25:13 pm »
Given that it was common practice for cyclists to draft lorries into the '50s and lorries in the '30s were limited to a perfect pace for a cyclist covering miles, it is absurd to think that Tommy didn't sit behind motor vehicles.

Given the toxic state of vehicle emissions in the 1930's [none of us were there mind, but I can't imagine they were better than the 1960's and beyond - god only knows they were dreadful then] it's also absurd to think that drafting a lorry was a pleasant experience...for any length of time. And we're talking long, long periods of time for it to be a significant factor in an endeavour like this, not just the odd mile or two.

In my experience of drafting HGVs at speed on A roads - which will be a lot less extensive than TG's - you can very easily spot where the exhaust is and you position yourself so as not to be behind it!

A few weeks ago, I did the ride to Brighton with the vintage cars and did a fair bit of drafting.  They were older than the ones on the road in the 1930s. It was certainly very smelly on the road with all that old fuel being burned, but it was no worse tucked in behind a car, avoiding its exhaust, than anywhere else.

I'd find it inconceivable that Tommy G would not have drafted trucks when he was riding.  It wouldn't have been mentioned in dispatches as no-one would be expecting him to do otherwise!  I expect the 20mph 'intervals' might have corresponded to when he got a tow vs when he didn't.

Assasin

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Re: When will Kurt take Godwin's record?
« Reply #33 on: 22 December, 2015, 03:48:30 pm »
Some of the older road records are a lot harder to beat because of modern day traffic conditions and city congestion.
I nearly said are impossible to beat but all records can be improved given a top rider, the right conditions and an element of luck.

Crimes and Arnold were a formidable pairing and also pretty useful on solo trikes.
john Arnold if he hadn't had a puncture would have won the Mersey 24 on his trike - which at the time would have been embarrassing as the event was technically a bicycle 24 at that time.
 
Since rectified.

in 1954 there wasn't an A30 that by-passed everything or a Forth road bridge.

The route was a lot longer than it is now.
And yet inspite of some of the best longbarrow riders having a go that 61 year old record it remains un broken.

One day someone will get it - that's what happens.
Tndem trike crews with the ability to do a ride of that magnitude are almost as rare as the machines themselves.

So it could take a while

This year the men's tandem record set in 1966 was broken by a crew who had never ridden a 24 together but had a wonderful tailwind.

So no record lasts for ever.

year record looks like it will be improved soon.

it's just a question of time before that improvement falls again.

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Re: When will Kurt take Godwin's record?
« Reply #34 on: 22 December, 2015, 04:03:26 pm »
January 6th, 2016, 13:33 Florida time

Back on topic - this is the bar for quality of prediction!
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Re: When will Kurt take Godwin's record?
« Reply #35 on: 22 December, 2015, 06:01:35 pm »
I'm going with January 7th, 16:42, local time.

Kim

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Re: When will Kurt take Godwin's record?
« Reply #36 on: 22 December, 2015, 07:57:20 pm »
Put me down for 7pm local time, December 31st, 1969.   ;)

Re: When will Kurt take Godwin's record?
« Reply #37 on: 22 December, 2015, 08:07:05 pm »
Put me down for 7pm local time, December 31st, 1969.   ;)

Mmm, I don't think you are treating the question with the seriousness it deserves.

Bu at least we've got away from lorry fumes.

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Re: When will Kurt take Godwin's record?
« Reply #38 on: 22 December, 2015, 08:22:46 pm »
Jan 7, 12:06 Local.
Admission.  I'm actually not that fussed about cake.

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Re: When will Kurt take Godwin's record?
« Reply #39 on: 22 December, 2015, 08:39:58 pm »
Put me down for 7pm local time, December 31st, 1969.   ;)

Mmm, I don't think you are treating the question with the seriousness it deserves.

Bu at least we've got away from lorry fumes.

There's going to be some cultural reference for that, because it's Kim, who is a Sorceress and Sooth-sayer non pareil.

Edit: ah, I think I've got it!
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