Organic food: Why?

[Gus]

The box I get have the veg and fruits of the season.
But the company have 11 different types of Vegetable boxes (size & types )

[Elleigh]

I have a local organic farm delivery.  I have a £20 mixed box (Fruit, veg and salad) every fortnight.  I decided to do this, as the food tastes like food, it is nice to have food that is locally grown, I like supporting local farmers and it is easy and convenient for me.  I didn't choose the food because it was organic, but pleased that it is.

Do you get a choice of what you get or is it a mixed bag box of stuff that is in season/available?

Either/or.  You can select what you want, have a seasonal surprise and deselect things you don't want.

It's a very user friendly service.

[alchemy]

I have a local organic farm delivery.  I have a £20 mixed box (Fruit, veg and salad) every fortnight.  I decided to do this, as the food tastes like food, it is nice to have food that is locally grown, I like supporting local farmers and it is easy and convenient for me.  I didn't choose the food because it was organic, but pleased that it is.

Do you get a choice of what you get or is it a mixed bag box of stuff that is in season/available?

Either/or.  You can select what you want, have a seasonal surprise and deselect things you don't want.

It's a very user friendly service.

Sounds great - it would be good if we had something similar here

[Regulator]

I refuse to eat organic food, based on conversations with farmers who grow the stuff and people at the top of the food chain (well the certification managerial chain).

There's also the fact that pesticides to me are a good thing. They are safe (assuming you're aren't a pest!) as one of the lead scientists demonstrated when a journalist asked him to prove it, he got a carrot, dunked it in the pesticide and then ate it.

I buy fruit and veg from the local markets, meat from the butcher and fish from the fishmongers. I try to stick to seasonal stuff and generally ask where it's come from.

One idiot scientist is not proof, Gonzo.  I could refer you to heaps of peer-reviewed evidence from around the world showing that pesticide, herbicide and fertilizer residues impact adversely on health.

[Pete]

Do you get a choice of what you get or is it a mixed bag box of stuff that is in season/available?

With Riverford, you don't get a choice, you just get what's in the box for that week (varies from week to week).   Details are published each week on the website.  Different size boxes have different selections: in other words they don't just differ in quantities, so if there's something you want to avoid, you can sometimes get around it by taking a different size box.  Not really suitable for people who have allergies or strong aversions to stuff, but we're lucky in that respect.  And this policy enables them to keep the costs and food miles down, I believe.

Just checked on the site, and the prices are going up next week.  Bummer!  Oh well, that's food inflation.....

I should have added that the packaging is minimal and a lot of it is re-cyclable.  The sturdy outer box: they take that back the following week and re-use.  Things like tomatoes and mushrooms come in cardboard punnets which will go in the recycling bin.  Some items come in polythene bags - not sure about biodegradability but they get some re-use for binning rubbish.

[gonzo]

I could refer you to heaps of peer-reviewed evidence from around the world showing that pesticide, herbicide and fertilizer residues impact adversely on health.

I go for the general consensus of the scientific community. As it stands, I believe that this is of the "really don't worry about them" nature.

I can show you papers that says that global warming's fictional. Do you believe that too?

[Maladict]

Science News / Farm Life Turns Male Toads Female

Try telling the toads that there's nothing wrong.

[gonzo]

Science News / Farm Life Turns Male Toads Female

"That there was a difference suggests that something special about farming is to blame, such as the chemicals used on farms"

ie. there's something about farms, but let's just blame it on the chemicals then we can all go down the pub.

[border-rider]

There's also the fact that pesticides to me are a good thing. They are safe (assuming you're aren't a pest!) as one of the lead scientists demonstrated when a journalist asked him to prove it, he got a carrot, dunked it in the pesticide and then ate it.

That was pretty dumb

There may be a question about residues - and I agree that overall it's not clear-cut that pesticide residue  levels below maximum permitted levels are short-term harmful - but I don't think it could be argued that large doses are without adverse effects.

I certainly wouldn't argue that having pesticide residues in food is of any health benefit to anyone who eats that food

[Regulator]

I could refer you to heaps of peer-reviewed evidence from around the world showing that pesticide, herbicide and fertilizer residues impact adversely on health.

I go for the general consensus of the scientific community. As it stands, I believe that this is of the "really don't worry about them" nature.

I can show you papers that says that global warming's fictional. Do you believe that too?

And where do you get this 'general consensus' of the scientific community from - or is that your interpretation?  Certainly my understanding is is that the general consensus is that the scientific community are trying to reduce herbicide, pesticide and fertilizer use.  

Certainly, the EU is introducing new restrictions on the use of these products on the basis of scientific evidence of the dangers to health that they pose.  In the past 5 years, 93 products have been banned in the EU.

...And scientists are using the reduction in use of such products as one of the bases for pushing GM crops.

Sorry Gonzo, but your view of the scientific consensus simply doesn't wash.  

[Wowbagger]

There's also the fact that pesticides to me are a good thing. They are safe (assuming you're aren't a pest!) as one of the lead scientists demonstrated when a journalist asked him to prove it, he got a carrot, dunked it in the pesticide and then ate it.

Are you old enough to remember when John Selwyn Gummer was in the cabinet, Gonzo?

[border-rider]

Science News / Farm Life Turns Male Toads Female

"That there was a difference suggests that something special about farming is to blame, such as the chemicals used on farms"

ie. there's something about farms, but let's just blame it on the chemicals then we can all go down the pub.

Can you suggest any physical agent that would have that effect on amphibia ?

it's like climate change - you might not have absolute proof but you have chemical agents in the environment (where they will have effects - that's their purpose) and you have effects observed in toads.  Cause-and-effect linkage ? No, no more than CO2 emissions and climate change,  but there's a decent reason to suspect a link and evidence that seems to support it.

[border-rider]

There's also the fact that pesticides to me are a good thing. They are safe (assuming you're aren't a pest!) as one of the lead scientists demonstrated when a journalist asked him to prove it, he got a carrot, dunked it in the pesticide and then ate it.

Are you old enough to remember when John Selwyn Gummer was in the cabinet, Gonzo?

My thoughts exactly

I was working in DoH at the time, and my food safety colleagues all winced...

[Maladict]

Science News / Farm Life Turns Male Toads Female

"That there was a difference suggests that something special about farming is to blame, such as the chemicals used on farms"

ie. there's something about farms, but let's just blame it on the chemicals then we can all go down the pub.

You do realise that the chemical in question has already been banned in the EU because it's unsafe?

And that it's known that it directly affects frog and toad reproductive systems?  (In the lab?)

Edit: at 1/30 the concentration thought to be safe for drinking water.

Yet it is still in use in the USA.

This is your "scientific consensus".

[Pete]

Are you old enough to remember when John Selwyn Gummer was in the cabinet, Gonzo?

Well, I certainly am! (how is the lovely Miss Cordelia doing now, anyone know?).  And I also remember the infamous Spanish Cooking Oil scandal, and how we were all taken in by the 'expert' explanations.  Read the article, quite an eye-opener!

[border-rider]

  And I also remember the infamous Spanish Cooking Oil scandal, and how we were all taken in by the 'expert' explanations.  Read the article, quite an eye-opener!

That's not much more than an extended conspiracy theory, written up for a newspaper.

I don't know much about the Spanish poisoning cases, other that what I recall at the time on the TV, but that article just doesn't ring true.

I knew Richard Doll reasonably well, and worked with him for a few years.  I have absolute confidence that he would not knowingly be part of any "cover-up" the way that article implies, and from that starting point and the lack of any other hard evidence there - where are the peer-reviewed papers ?  - I have to say that I have difficulties with that article.

[gonzo]

The EU spends their entire life introducing restrictions. Quite often they are ill thought out.

The biggest threat that herbicides, pesticides and fertilisers pose is entirely from fertilisers and specifically; terrorists getting hold of some and blowing it up.

And where do you get this 'general consensus' of the scientific community from - or is that your interpretation?

From someone who spends a fair chunk of their life dealing with the agri-scientific community. I figure that he knows more than you or I ever will.

Did you know that if coffee was tested as a agri-chemical it wouldn't be classed as safe to spray on crops?

[Wowbagger]

Well, Gonzo, John Selwyn Gummer? Who he and what did he famously do to his daughter?

[Charlotte]

I can't seem to find any references to little Cordelia these days, but it would appear that a family friend of the idiot Gummer carked it from new variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease last year.

Clicky

[Pete]

Not so little!  She must be well into her twenties by now.  I just hope she's in good health, and being left in peace to get on with her life as she deserves.  Remember, she didn't actually eat the burger...

[Charlotte]

No - apparently some civil servant had to make the bite into it for her.

Which makes her a damn sight smarter than her cretin of a father...

[Wowbagger]

Whether or not it's the influence of the infected beef, but Gummer has become quite sound on environmnetal issues in later life. Quite a shock really.

[Regulator]

The EU spends their entire life introducing restrictions. Quite often they are ill thought out.

The biggest threat that herbicides, pesticides and fertilisers pose is entirely from fertilisers and specifically; terrorists getting hold of some and blowing it up.

And where do you get this 'general consensus' of the scientific community from - or is that your interpretation?

From someone who spends a fair chunk of their life dealing with the agri-scientific community. I figure that he knows more than you or I ever will.

Did you know that if coffee was tested as a agri-chemical it wouldn't be classed as safe to spray on crops?

Funnilyenough, many of my compatriots at university were on the Natural Resources course... They don't just spend time mixing with agri-scientific experts.... they are experts in agriculture (particulalry low input forms).  Ever heard of the John Innes Institute?

[Polar Bear]

Y'know, I believe in freedom of choice.   The information I have gathered and read over the years about GM as oppose to organic has convinced me that there is no advantage to GM, but many disadvantages.  For instance, sterile seed means that a farmer has to buy seed every year, not cultivate seed from the previous years crop.   And having to buy the seed companies chemicals because they are the only ones that work with that seed is very restrictive too.   Also, when your free radical GM crop spreads as all crops do, it can take away the free choice of others by infecting organic farms and jeopardising their license and livelihood.

But the thing about GM that most disturbs me is the bullying tactics that the big agro-bullies use...       

After all, if their product is so good why would they ever need to behave like this?

[border-rider]

The EU spends their entire life introducing restrictions. Quite often they are ill thought out.

Do they ? Are they ?

I spend quite a lot of my time actually writing stuff that the EU uses in the implementation of H&S Directives.  I'd argue that it is actually quite carefully thought-out and that the way to make sure it is is to fully-engage with the process and ensure that the outcome is sensible.

The biggest threat that herbicides, pesticides and fertilisers pose is entirely from fertilisers and specifically; terrorists getting hold of some and blowing it up.

Not really, since these days they have stuff in them to prevent that...