The Grumble Thread - No energy for a full on rant.

[ElyDave]

I see your quibble, in my defence I'd been staring at a spreadsheet for about 7 hours yesterday and my brain was fuzzy.
I'm used to differentiating thermal input power vs output power for regulatory purposes

Good news, in 20 mins at 5:30 this morning I found the bug that had been evading me all day

[TheLurker]

Who the fuck divides an inch into ten?

Electrical engineers.

And Aeromodellers.

[robgul]

I don't want to provoke a Trump/Biden debate - but in general on the US election process - OK the "electoral college" idea is a bit odd BUT

Why do they not just count all the votes for each state and then announce the winner? - in much the same way as we do with Parliamentary constituencies.

  - all this "votes so far" announcement and speculation/projection stuff is crazy and is seeming to incite all sorts of protests, violence and juvenile/peurile behaviour (and that's just Trump)

[mrcharly-YHT]

I don't want to provoke a Trump/Biden debate - but in general on the US election process - OK the "electoral college" idea is a bit odd BUT

Why do they not just count all the votes for each state and then announce the winner? - in much the same way as we do with Parliamentary constituencies.

  - all this "votes so far" announcement and speculation/projection stuff is crazy and is seeming to incite all sorts of protests, violence and juvenile/peurile behaviour (and that's just Trump)

Because the votes in different states don't have the same 'power'.

Some states have a large population and proportionally fewer electoral college votes.

[andytheflyer]

Silly Oak PM10 count: 138.8 μg/m³ and climbing...

Yep, it's bonfire night.

Many years ago, once the Directive on municipal solid waste incinerator emissions took effect in the mid 90's (i.e. they were cleaned up and many closed anyway) the Environment Agency considered Bonfire Night to be the biggest annual polluter in the UK.  I'd have thought that there were others, but that's what they told me (during a Public Inquiry IIRC).

[robgul]

I don't want to provoke a Trump/Biden debate - but in general on the US election process - OK the "electoral college" idea is a bit odd BUT

Why do they not just count all the votes for each state and then announce the winner? - in much the same way as we do with Parliamentary constituencies.

  - all this "votes so far" announcement and speculation/projection stuff is crazy and is seeming to incite all sorts of protests, violence and juvenile/peurile behaviour (and that's just Trump)

Because the votes in different states don't have the same 'power'.

Some states have a large population and proportionally fewer electoral college votes.

... that's not the issue I'm talking about - what makes no sense is the "partial" result announcement . . .  logic says that when the ACTUAL FINAL RESULT for each state is decided then say who has won (i.e. how many college votes have ACTUALLY been added for the winning candidate)


I can see the maths working when, for example one candidate is, say, 10,000 ahead and there are only 5,000 ballots left to count . .. but it's still bonkers!

As an aside - I was in Florida on election day in 1992 (Clinton for in) and in the evening results were being announced before voting had closed in California .... that seems odd to me too.
 

[TheLurker]

Why do they not just count all the votes for each state and then announce the winner? - in much the same way as we do with Parliamentary constituencies.

As an aside - I was in Florida on election day in 1992 (Clinton for in) and in the evening results were being announced before voting had closed in California .... that seems odd to me too.

And this may be why so many USAnians don't appear to understand how voting works.  They've been conditioned by decades of announcements of victory based on partial counts rather than final results.

[rafletcher]

I don't want to provoke a Trump/Biden debate - but in general on the US election process - OK the "electoral college" idea is a bit odd BUT

Why do they not just count all the votes for each state and then announce the winner? - in much the same way as we do with Parliamentary constituencies.

  - all this "votes so far" announcement and speculation/projection stuff is crazy and is seeming to incite all sorts of protests, violence and juvenile/peurile behaviour (and that's just Trump)

Because the votes in different states don't have the same 'power'.

Some states have a large population and proportionally fewer electoral college votes.

... that's not the issue I'm talking about - what makes no sense is the "partial" result announcement . . .  logic says that when the ACTUAL FINAL RESULT for each state is decided then say who has won (i.e. how many college votes have ACTUALLY been added for the winning candidate)

I assume it's because the election is based on Electoral College votes won, and they are won progressively throughout the count - so once, say, 15 out of 20 in a state have been won, that could define the overall result.

[ian]

I don't want to provoke a Trump/Biden debate - but in general on the US election process - OK the "electoral college" idea is a bit odd BUT

Why do they not just count all the votes for each state and then announce the winner? - in much the same way as we do with Parliamentary constituencies.

  - all this "votes so far" announcement and speculation/projection stuff is crazy and is seeming to incite all sorts of protests, violence and juvenile/peurile behaviour (and that's just Trump)

Because the votes in different states don't have the same 'power'.

Some states have a large population and proportionally fewer electoral college votes.

... that's not the issue I'm talking about - what makes no sense is the "partial" result announcement . . .  logic says that when the ACTUAL FINAL RESULT for each state is decided then say who has won (i.e. how many college votes have ACTUALLY been added for the winning candidate)

I assume it's because the election is based on Electoral College votes won, and they are won progressively throughout the count - so once, say, 15 out of 20 in a state have been won, that could define the overall result.

I think the question is why do individual counties and then states release partial counts – rather than stay silent till they're done and then announce the final vote. I know of no legal reason they have to do so (they don't even have to release a tally on election night). It's just the way it is. Americans love voting and taxes, they complain about both, but equally embed them in ceremony. Voting, in particular, is very different to the UK. Typically it takes several days to make a count, every state has it's own voting mechanism from collection of ballots to counting and re-counting.

The electors don't have to send their votes to DC until 8th December. They don't even have to honour the vote – they can be 'faithless electors' (lots of states have laws about this now, but there's nothing really to enforce them, the vote is the vote and can't be undone).

This election is sadly special in the protests, normally they'd be a nutty few, but nothing really like this.

[robgul]

I don't want to provoke a Trump/Biden debate - but in general on the US election process - OK the "electoral college" idea is a bit odd BUT

Why do they not just count all the votes for each state and then announce the winner? - in much the same way as we do with Parliamentary constituencies.

  - all this "votes so far" announcement and speculation/projection stuff is crazy and is seeming to incite all sorts of protests, violence and juvenile/peurile behaviour (and that's just Trump)

Because the votes in different states don't have the same 'power'.

Some states have a large population and proportionally fewer electoral college votes.

... that's not the issue I'm talking about - what makes no sense is the "partial" result announcement . . .  logic says that when the ACTUAL FINAL RESULT for each state is decided then say who has won (i.e. how many college votes have ACTUALLY been added for the winning candidate)

I assume it's because the election is based on Electoral College votes won, and they are won progressively throughout the count - so once, say, 15 out of 20 in a state have been won, that could define the overall result.

I think the question is why do individual counties and then states release partial counts – rather than stay silent till they're done and then announce the final vote. I know of no legal reason they have to do so (they don't even have to release a tally on election night). It's just the way it is. Americans love voting and taxes, they complain about both, but equally embed them in ceremony. Voting, in particular, is very different to the UK. Typically it takes several days to make a count, every state has it's own voting mechanism from collection of ballots to counting and re-counting.

The electors don't have to send their votes to DC until 8th December. They don't even have to honour the vote – they can be 'faithless electors' (lots of states have laws about this now, but there's nothing really to enforce them, the vote is the vote and can't be undone).

This election is sadly special in the protests, normally they'd be a nutty few, but nothing really like this.

Exactly.  .... but it must be difficult to gain any sort of alignment across "48 (or whatever it is now) small countries" all with different agenda.

[ian]

(It's 50, and no, territories like Washington DC and  Puerto Rico can't cast votes for president or congress.)

There are federal laws that determine when certain things must happen (elector votes to DC etc.) and then a mishmash of state laws on the actual voting process and counting. Ballots will feature the presidential vote, of course, and for some, senator, and for others all kind of state local issues. Americans vote for everything.

I lied about the 8th (that's when the votes must have been counted*), the requirement is that the electors meet and cast their vote 'on the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December' - then the votes have to arrive by pony post in DC by the 23rd. The gap between the 8th and 14th is a 'safe harbor' to settle disputes before the electors cast their vote.

*it was on this that the Supreme Court stopped the Florida recount for Gore vs. Bush, the state-wide recount would not have been complete before the 8th.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Perhaps it's partially due to the larger numbers? A UK constituency might have 100,000 voters, a US state might have tens of millions. So it inevitably takes longer and people are impatient. TV doesn't help.

Could there also be an element of a race? Each county wants to count quicker than its neighbours so is tempted to release partial results to get one up on their county rivals?

[Cudzoziemiec]

Silly Oak PM10 count: 138.8 μg/m³ and climbing...

Yep, it's bonfire night.

Be thankful it's not diwali.

[ian]

Perhaps it's partially due to the larger numbers? A UK constituency might have 100,000 voters, a US state might have tens of millions. So it inevitably takes longer and people are impatient. TV doesn't help.

Could there also be an element of a race? Each county wants to count quicker than its neighbours so is tempted to release partial results to get one up on their county rivals?

Yes, vote counting is quite competitive.

It's easy to forget that the US is big and a lot of counties and states have small rural populations. There are counties in Wyoming the size of Wales where the census lists six people and a chicken (probably). Everything is the US is also localized, so every county counts.

[Cudzoziemiec]

The BBC's map lets you zoom in on individual counties, there are lots with a few hundred total voters. Also lots with "no reported result" which is odd.

[Mr Larrington]

Out of sheer geekery I went and looked it up.  Los Angeles County has a population of over 10 million while Kalawao County in Hawaii has fewer than 100.  San Bernadino County, which is most of the interior of Southern California and largely populated by rattlesneks, is more than twice the size of Wales though it only just scrapes into the top ten when the Boroughs and Census Areas of Alaska are thrown in.  Yukon–Koyukuk Census Area is about the size of Germany and has a population of less than 6000 (excl. BEARs).

[ian]

The BBC's map lets you zoom in on individual counties, there are lots with a few hundred total voters. Also lots with "no reported result" which is odd.

Like I say, I don't think there's a legal obligation to report partial counts. Counties can sit on them till they're done.

Even in Connecticut, counties range from ~1,000–50,000 votes.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Yukon–Koyukuk Census Area is about the size of Germany and has a population of less than 6000 (excl. BEARs).

Votes for BEARs! No fur without representation!

[Basil]

Fuck off Biggles.  Surely it's too late in the year for this kind of noise?

Oh. Here comes the 'chaser'.  You can fuck off too.

[Kim]

Fuck off Biggles.  Surely it's too late in the year for this kind of noise?

Yeah, that was yesterday.   

[SoreTween]

Starting to have my doubts my broadband is going to be upgraded today...
I could be wrong, there's still a full 4hr 15 minutes to go.

[robgul]

at 2130 it looks like the plasterboard I ordered that was promised to be delivered today isn't coming - total PITA as I need to get the ceiling in my workshop finished before I can start on a fairly major woodwork project - all the space has been cleared ready for the baording.

These suppliers really get up my  Wickes

[Ashaman42]

On days I go to the office my alarm goes off at 05:30 which is far too early.

Well today, for not the first time my alarm volume has reset itself from one notch above zero (which is plenty) to near full blast. What a rude awakening.

[matthew]

My boiler is on the blink. If the hot water circuit calls the boiler it works fine, but if the heating calls it then the valves open, the pump runs but the boiler doesn't ignite. This leads to the circulation of cold water round the radiators. Therefore the only time the house gets heated is if the heating is trying to run when the hot water cylinder decides it also needs to heat up.

GAMI is booked for tomorrow but I suspect I may be investing in a new control unit which means deciding if I want to upgrade to Hive or a similar smart device.

[Mrs Pingu]

I've got a small lumpy/flappy bit inside my lower eyelid and it's scratchy.