Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Topic started by: andrewc on 07 May, 2020, 09:51:32 pm
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https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-supplier-mavic-placed-in-receivership/
https://www.cyclist.co.uk/news/8168/mavic-goes-into-receivership
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Already mentioned here: https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=56363.msg2494824#msg2494824
and here: https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=115580.0
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Does this mean that my Mavic Aksium rims with bladed spokes on Mavic Aksium cartridge hubs are worth 'Jack Shit' ?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303441291786
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Does this mean that my Mavic Aksium rims with bladed spokes on Mavic Aksium cartridge hubs are worth 'Jack Shit' ?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303441291786
If Jack Shit is about £50, then yes.
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Does this mean that my Mavic Aksium rims with bladed spokes on Mavic Aksium cartridge hubs are worth 'Jack Shit' ?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303441291786
Put it this way, I think your £220 buy it now price is a bit optimistic, a new pair from Merlin is £135.
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I have a pair in the shed that a mate brought around when the spokes all got loose. Flat spokes sitting across the direction of travel is likely to not be very aero. He’s been riding some others I built for the last year and I’ve not really had the heart to sort the mavics. Probably best used to support the fork when I’m on the turbo.
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When I was managing an LBS (until November 2109) Mavic had been almost impossible to deal with for several years - either buying stuff or getting any technical answers . . . so reading between the lines it's not altogether a surprise.
Rob
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Does this mean that my Mavic Aksium rims with bladed spokes on Mavic Aksium cartridge hubs are worth 'Jack Shit' ?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303441291786
Put it this way, I think your £220 buy it now price is a bit optimistic, a new pair from Merlin is £135.
And these look to me like the old-style (pre-2016) narrow rims, for which I think the new price was around £150 RRP, and which were frequently available for around £100.
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When I was managing an LBS (until November 2109) Mavic had been almost impossible to deal with for several years - either buying stuff or getting any technical answers . . . so reading between the lines it's not altogether a surprise.
Rob
gentlemen, we appear to have a time traveller amongst us! But seriously, Mavic's reputation amongst cyclists has always rested upon its rims. In the current climate there is more money to be made in wheelsets, and making money with rims is difficult. Even so it hardly excuses them taking their eye off the ball both commercially and technically regarding their core products. Specific gripes include;
- revamping their rims and making them worse; for example re-engineering a training rim (using what is basically the same extrusion as before) to be a few g lighter but with a braking surface that is so thin it wears out in half the mileage is a pretty dumb move.
- ditto; the new open pro UST is prone to cracking and (in rim brake form) is practically worn out when you buy it. Braking surfaces 1.05mm thickness...???? WTF?
- deleting rims randomly and/or failing to supply them. I recently scoured the country for a pretty basic 32h A319 rim in silver; almost no-one had any stock or knew if it was a temporary or permanent state of affairs.
- making technical recommendations that are impractical. IIRC mavic currently specify spoke tensions not exceeding 90kg or something with their rims. It used to be 100kg which I thought was bad enough, but maybe the Open Pro UST problems forced their hand. I have not measured the tension in Mavic's factory wheels accurately, but I'd be amazed if they stick to their own recommendations...
I still buy and use mavic rims but they are not as good as they could be and worse than that, they are oftentimes not as good as they used to be, either.
cheers
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I noticed the max spike tension when they launched the OP UST and wondered what they were at. I know of a builder who has used Kinlin 31t at 1450N with washers and found them to be robust. I like to stick to about 1,200N driveside, but it’s good to have some margin!
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Does this mean that my Mavic Aksium rims with bladed spokes on Mavic Aksium cartridge hubs are worth 'Jack Shit' ?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303441291786
Put it this way, I think your £220 buy it now price is a bit optimistic, a new pair from Merlin is £135.
I have had all of this before - and no you cannot get exactly what is listed for £135.00.
FIRSTLY the rims are the shit cheap black ones with cheap Black QR's and the hubs are Shimano NOT MAVIC Cartridge hubs,there is no 10spd Miche cassette and also NO Vittoria Rubino tyres with tubes.
Get your facts straight before picking holes in something that you have not looked at/into properly.
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I have a pair in the shed that a mate brought around when the spokes all got loose. Flat spokes sitting across the direction of travel is likely to not be very aero. He’s been riding some others I built for the last year and I’ve not really had the heart to sort the mavics. Probably best used to support the fork when I’m on the turbo.
Flat spokes not presenting 'Very Aero' is technical sales bullshit that can only be truly be measured in a wind-tunnel and make very little difference in the real world of Mr & Mrs cyclist or even the posers out on their insanely expensive hype machines whilst blocking the country lanes with their make believe Pelotons on a Sunday morning.
Any loss of speed ability by the not 'Very Aero' presented could be regain several fold by lightening ones pockets of small change.
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Country lanes belong to cyclists. They're not "blocking a lane", that is gammon chat.
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This is a shame. Mavic used to produce reasonably-priced rims that were ok. I went through quite a few in the past. Open Pro were light and easy to build. The cheaper range of the rims were ok, not too heavy and ok brake surfaces.
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Does this mean that my Mavic Aksium rims with bladed spokes on Mavic Aksium cartridge hubs are worth 'Jack Shit' ?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303441291786
Put it this way, I think your £220 buy it now price is a bit optimistic, a new pair from Merlin is £135.
I have had all of this before - and no you cannot get exactly what is listed for £135.00.
FIRSTLY the rims are the shit cheap black ones with cheap Black QR's and the hubs are Shimano NOT MAVIC Cartridge hubs,there is no 10spd Miche cassette and also NO Vittoria Rubino tyres with tubes.
Get your facts straight before picking holes in something that you have not looked at/into properly.
*To the bolded. No, you are mistaken. They have Mavic hubs.
Here you go...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=mavic+aksium+race+wheelset&_sacat=0&redirect=mobile&rt=nc&LH_Complete=1
This is a list of same wheelset sold recently on Ebay, some with tyres. They sell for between £40, and (if you get super lucky) £120.
.........................................
These wheels retailed 10 years ago for £145 new RRP. Rubino tyres (shit) can be found for £12 new. Tubes £2 new. Miche Cassette £26 new.
So all of this (if this particular wheelset was still on sale) could be found NEW for about £195.
And you want an extra £25 for second hand stuff ;D
You owe igauk an apology pal.
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I like rubino tyres, and the 23mm are usally on sale so a pair are usually less than £16.
Reading up, is there an issue because the venture capitalist have set in and ruined things. Am a fan of the open pro rim and as mentioned they seem to have disappeared.
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Mavic hubs were (might still be) shockers. That awful design with the nylon bushing that needed maintenance every few hundred miles if you wanted to ward off the screech of death.
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Mavic hasn’t really produced good engineering during this century. They’ve been living off their reputation for a long time.
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But you're all overlooking the far more important question.
Who's going to operate the neutral service vehicles for that ride around France? and what colour will they be?
J
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But you're all overlooking the far more important question.
Who's going to operate the neutral service vehicles for that ride around France? and what colour will they be?
J
I’d be guessing Shimano, as they already do neutral service at a lot of races.
In reality, neutral service is a nightmare/ or irrelevant due to so many different standards, especially with disc brakes/ through axles etc. When you could just stick any rear wheel in it was more relevant. Mostly, complete bike changes are the norm once the hammer is down in the race.
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Neutral service started becoming irrelevant when multiple incompatible pedal systems became popular and that was a very long time ago. Incompatible gearing systems and now incompatible wheel standards are just further steps to complete irrelevance.
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I'm not sure I've ever seen anybody riding a yellow Mavic bike in a race.
Besides, teams are far better resourced these days. They can afford their own support.
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I'm not sure I've ever seen anybody riding a yellow Mavic bike in a race.
Besides, teams are far better resourced these days. They can afford their own support.
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/couldnt-really-pedal-fabio-aru-moment-use-neutral-service-bike-430523
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“It was working somewhat for me, but the saddle was way too high for me to really continue. I couldn’t really pedal!
Why couldn't he just drop the saddle? Or get the neutral mechanic to do it if it's not qr, which it presumably isn't.
Anyway, Mavic are going bust. Yes, it's said. But then again, I'd only heard bad-weird things about their latest incarnation of Open Pro (think they might have changed the name slightly?) and comments above saying they lost their edge a couple of decades ago. So they join a long list from Sun-Tour to Chater Lea, etc.
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Mavic's woes don't have an awful lot to do with the rim business. That's a tiny bit of the market compared to OEM wheels for new bikes. They were Mavic's bread and butter but there's more competition now. Lots of the big firms have made a big investment in their own wheel sub-brands.
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I have a pair in the shed that a mate brought around when the spokes all got loose. Flat spokes sitting across the direction of travel is likely to not be very aero. He’s been riding some others I built for the last year and I’ve not really had the heart to sort the mavics. Probably best used to support the fork when I’m on the turbo.
Flat spokes not presenting 'Very Aero' is technical sales bullshit that can only be truly be measured in a wind-tunnel and make very little difference in the real world of Mr & Mrs cyclist or even the posers out on their insanely expensive hype machines whilst blocking the country lanes with their make believe Pelotons on a Sunday morning.
Any loss of speed ability by the not 'Very Aero' presented could be regain several fold by lightening ones pockets of small change.
Sorry, a bit of humour. Having said that, aero generally trumps weight;) but spokes are largely irrelevant.
My mate is much faster on my wheels - identical to the set in classifieds - but I suspect that’s because the spokes are at and remain at an appropriate tension...
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https://cyclingtips.com/2020/05/mavic-is-in-receivership-but-who-owns-them-who-knows/
To summarise: Mavic don’t seem to know who owns them. Regent says that they do. The French courts say that they don’t. A sub-brand of Amer Sports, Mavic’s owner from a year ago, seems to be on the hook for something, but we’re not really sure what. And, we’ve now got a headache.
Crikey. What a mess.
I've recently taken out a paid subscription to CT. They seem to be one of the few cycling media outlets to really have their act together.
Shame about Mavic. I've used a few of their wheel products a few times and have been happy. My current wheels are cheap Mavics which have certainly done the job ( https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=112882.msg2415481 ) and the beater bike, a 26er Dawes 501 steel quasi-MTB, rolls on Mavic rims that are probably decades old very well.
My dad's got some Krysium alloy road wheels which have done him very well too and they didn't cost that much.
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I liked Mavic MA2 rims.
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I don't know the exact reasons for Mavic's woes, but maybe they are suffering a similar fate to most of the French cycle manufacturing industry. I'm scratching my head to think of any company beyond Time who manufacture in France (and I know that Mavic moved some of theirs to eastern Europe)
These days the model seems to be design, marketing and logistics, with little need for expensive factories and tooling.
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i've ridden mavic wheels since i started cycling and had mostly trouble free experience for over a 100,000km. first wheels were ma2 with campag hubs on my ss commuter, hub cups wore out after a couple of years. then built a pair of mavic 505 hubs with a719 rims, rims lasted 3-4 years, front wheel re-rimmed with the same a719 and still going on my hack bike. another commuter had a319 on disc hubs, rode for a couple of years before it got stolen.
my "good" wheels were ksyrium sl's which i chose based on low weight (then, 1.5kg), no rider weight limit (so must be strong), decent looks and the use in pro peloton ::-) - twelve years ago. they had finished many long audaxes, two tcr's and were mostly trouble free. mostly, because the freehub skips occasionally, say once in a thousand kms and the bushing creaked twice (easy to sort it out). superb quality bearings, didn't need changing and still ultra-smooth. they are now considered vintage, however still perform well enough, being light, stiff and responsive - out of saddle accelerations feel great!
would i be sad to see them go? a little, from nostalgic pov, however there are many great wheels on the market to choose from, so cyclists/consumers aren't losing much.
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There is still reason to be sad. A company like Mavic, being a pedigreed firm, has a great deal of institutional knowledge accumulated over decades. It is tragic that a historic group like it has been reduced to nothing, seemingly by mismanagement and financialised trading. Really can't recommend that cyclingtips article enough. It is mind boggling.
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I've had lots of Mavic wheels, and they've all performed very well. I still have two pairs of Ksyrium Elites - 2005 and 2010 varieties - and they're still gainfully employed and have never given a moment's trouble. I know nothing about the company, really, but I do hope they manage to survive. I wonder what went wrong with the Mavic/Enve 'synergy'.
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I have some mavic gp4 rims on campag gran sport hubs.
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I hope that it doesn’t go the way of so many good” names” from the past, and get acquired by a company that, once old stock is sold, uses the name to sell much more indifferent items.
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An answer to the rubbish hub parts? The nylon hub part wears out, a company in the USA produces spares in various sizes as the so called nylon bush slightly wears the hub body. Google igus bearings this is the type of bearing used. Its the user not using the proper lube in the bearing. Was told to use mineral oil ( magura or shimano) used in disc brakes.
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Yep. Mavic recommend mineral oil about every 3000 miles I think.
Hubdoctor (dont know if they are still around) also do solutions to the shitty bushing issue
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I have some mavic gp4 rims on campag gran sport hubs.
I've got:
GEL280 (actual weight 300g!)
GL330 (350g)
CX18 (18 as in 18mm wide)
GP4 (400g)
G40
MA2 (more than enough to see me out)
MA40 (dark anodised version of MA2, wheels sold after I moved to using MA2)
E2
Module E
Champion du Monde
Mod 3
Mod 4
All either as rims or built on Nuovo Record hubs.
I reckon Mavic went downhill after they introduced dark hard anodising. OK, they might look OK when new, but they look absolutely crap once the side walls start to wear from (rim) brake use.
Oh, also when they change the label from red to green and yellow.
The green and yellow label is so ugly I need to remove them from my MA2 rims, fortunately all my other mavic rims have the red label.
;D
I've got some bits from the orig SSC groupsets like chainset, hubs, gears. But I've always prefered cup and cone bearings over the cartridge bearings that Mavic use.
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I have some mavic gp4 rims on campag gran sport hubs.
I've got:
GEL280 (actual weight 300g!)
GL330
GP4
G40
MA2 (more than enough to see out)
E2
Module E
Champion du Monde
Mod 3
Mod 4
All either as rims or built on Nuovo Record hubs.
I reckon Mavic went downhill after they introduced dark hard anodising. OK, they might look OK when new, but they look absolutely crap once the side walls start to wear from (rim) brake use.
Oh, also when they change the label from red to green and yellow.
The green and yellow label is so ugly I need to remove them from my MA2 rims, fortunately all my other mavic rims have the red label.
;D
I've got some bits from the orig SSC groupsets like chainset, hubs, deraileurs. But I've always prefered cup and cone bearings over the cartridge bearings that Mavic use.
My first pay packet went on the wheels in 1984. They are now on my hand built F.W.Evans frame which is also from 1984, purchased at the family run Evans shop. Still running well on their occasional outing, now furnished with gatorskin tubulars.
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My bike has got Mavic Open Pro UST rims, and has always performed brilliantly tubelessly when I have used Mavic UST tyres.
When I tried to use non-Mavic tyres with them, they didn't seat well.
So I ordered another pair of tyres when I saw this thread (probably coming up to being replaced anyway, they've been on since before PBP) and got an email to say they've been dispatched.
So obviously still trading for the time being.
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yeah, the MA2 etc yellow and green decal just made me want to hurl. Other rim models had other colours, mostly just as pukey. Mavic almost deserve to go bust for inflicting that on innocent cyclists...?
I much preferred their old 'diamond' logo on a red background. The current Mavic rim logos just don't look very special and they don't always even stay on the rim.
cheers
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Anyone care to recommend an alternative to the Open Pro? My frames won't take more than 23mm tyres, so the fad for wider rims doesn't appeal.
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Ambrosio Excellence and Excellight. Dt swiss do loads of decent rims.
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There was a tie in with a bike builder in the US a couple of years back that was offering really deeply discounted prices on mavic stuff with the purchase of a new bike. We ordered a bunch of stuff at the time. There must nave been something awry back then though because most of the order fell through (mainly clothing/ racing shoes)
We did end up with a set of pro carbon and pro carbon disc wheels however They are decent enough but came with horrible uncomfortable tyres that we took off and replaced off the bat.
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This is relayed from a post on the Confrérie's mailing list (by Henri Bosc, the godfather of the 650B) for those who read french: http://lecycle.fr/actualites/bourrelier-group-sa-va-relancer-mavic/13071/
I don't have a clue who Bourrelier are (so they will probably turn out to be someone very important that everyone has heard of!)
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the same people as are/were 'Bricoarama' are they not? web translation of the French text;
Bourrelier Group S.A. to relaunch MAVIC
MAVIC Reprise Wheels
Pierre Bonnet
July 22, 2020
16:20
| News
The Commercial Court of Grenoble has just ruled in favour of the Bourrelier family group, for the takeover and relaunch of MAVIC. Of the 14 projects in the running, The Bourrelier Group S.A. was considered the strongest and most realistic because it was financed by equity. In addition, it provides for the safeguarding of the Saint-Trivier site, the Annecy headquarters and the takeover of 105 employees.
On May 8, we announced that MAVIC, the French specialist in bicycle rims, wheels and hubs, had been put on judicial review. The 210 or so employees of the historic site of Saint-Trivier-sur-Moignans (01) and the annecy headquarters (74) were awaiting a decision. They are now fixed on fate.
So it's official, Bourrelier Group S.A. (formerly owner of the DIY chain of stores, Bricoarama), represented by its two general managers, Yoann and Jean-Michel Bourrelier, will take on the task of reviving MAVIC, one of the world leaders in the aluminum and carbon bike wheel.
MAVIC needs to regain a family-owned SME dimension with agile governance. MAVIC must go through short, autonomous circuits. MAVIC needs to refocus on what made the brand successful.
Jean-Michel Bourrelier (CEO of Bourrelier Group SA)
Bourrelier Group is a family-owned company (on the stock exchange at Euronext Growth since 1975). The company founded in 1975 by Jean-Claude Bourrelier has established itself as a major player in the DIY sector, with the Bricorama brand (more than 4,500 employees).
In 2017, the group sells its DIY activities, in France and Spain and changes its name to Bourrelier Group S.A. However the DIY business remains at the center of its concerns, in Belgium and the Netherlands, with the brands Gamma and Karwei (72 points of sales). And today the turnover of Bourrelier Groupe S.A. reaches 223 million Euros.
We want to invest in activities that make sense for the environment and society as a whole. The sports sector, and especially cycling, fully responds to this philosophy.
Yoann Bourrelier (CEO of Bourrelier Group SA)
Yoann Bourrelier is an atV enthusiast, an emeritus competitor, he knows the cycle market well, having studied, since 2007, the issue of the distribution of Electric Assistance Bikes (VAE).
cheers