Author Topic: Air Traffic Control failure.  (Read 3623 times)

Air Traffic Control failure.
« on: 28 August, 2023, 12:17:04 pm »
https://x.com/skynewsbreak/status/1696117309234987485


Sounds like NATS are having major problems. 


The advice to never travel on a Bank Holiday is still good!
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Mr Larrington

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Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #1 on: 28 August, 2023, 12:44:01 pm »
Could be worse: https://onemileatatime.com/news/alaska-boeing-737-damaged-rough-landing/

You'd need a whole team of horses to drag me onto a 737 :demon:
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #2 on: 28 August, 2023, 12:48:50 pm »
Just been watching The Secret City. Air traffic disrupted by cyber warfare. Given recent events, more likely incompetence
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TheLurker

  • Goes well with magnolia.
Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #3 on: 28 August, 2023, 01:44:04 pm »
Quote from: Asterix
Just been watching The Secret City. Air traffic disrupted by cyber warfare. Given recent events, more likely incompetence
Nahhh, just Cruella's latest barely thought through wheeze to stop people coming into the country.  Doesn't matter who, just as long as no-one else gets in.
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Wowbagger

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Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #4 on: 28 August, 2023, 07:37:19 pm »
A friend is stuck in Luxembourg for two extra days, I think because of this. She's happy: all expenses paid trip. She can work from her phone and has a good book. And Luxembourg is lovely!
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #5 on: 28 August, 2023, 07:46:26 pm »
A friend is stuck in Luxembourg for two extra days, I think because of this. She's happy: all expenses paid trip. She can work from her phone and has a good book. And Luxembourg is lovely!

Possibly.

Compared to Swindon?
Quote from: tiermat
that's not science, it's semantics.

Kim

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Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #6 on: 28 August, 2023, 11:04:06 pm »
My inside man is contractually disallowed from commenting.  I'm blaming DNS, because it's usually a safe bet.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #7 on: 28 August, 2023, 11:20:02 pm »
My inside man is contractually disallowed from commenting.  I'm blaming DNS, because it's usually a safe bet.

I would not be surprised by that being the conclusion...

J
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Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #8 on: 29 August, 2023, 09:05:37 am »
On Sunday my laptop was denying me access to a perfectly good site that my mobile phone could happily visit.  Today my laptop finds the site instantly. 
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T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #9 on: 29 August, 2023, 10:14:12 am »
Could be worse: https://onemileatatime.com/news/alaska-boeing-737-damaged-rough-landing/

You'd need a whole team of horses to drag me onto a 737 :demon:

Must have flown on dozens when I worked in Germany.  Mind you, they were 40 years younger then and hadn't been shameliorated yet.

That ^^^ was hairy, though.  Not much ground clearance on those things.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #10 on: 29 August, 2023, 10:58:21 pm »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66644369

"flight data issue"

Ok, hands up, who tried to arrange a flight to "'); DROP TABLE flights; -- "?

J
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Mr Larrington

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Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #11 on: 30 August, 2023, 01:50:01 am »
I think his name is “Bobby”.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #12 on: 30 August, 2023, 08:19:28 am »
Probably an AI fail due to an unscripted prompt.
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Regulator

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Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #13 on: 30 August, 2023, 09:47:11 am »
My sister and her family got back from Italy yesterday, a little under a day late.  One of the people at the wedding was told they wouldn't be able to get on a flight until Saturday - alternative are being explored.
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #14 on: 30 August, 2023, 01:12:14 pm »
I see some of the Twitter/X/GBNews frothers are blaming the French for the ATC failure...

...despite the same information being received by a number of ATC systems and processed without a major failure.  Which would suggest that it's not the data that's the issue.
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #15 on: 30 August, 2023, 01:31:54 pm »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66644369

"flight data issue"

Ok, hands up, who tried to arrange a flight to "'); DROP TABLE flights; -- "?

J

A friend of mine has form for RM *.*

Jaded

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Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #16 on: 30 August, 2023, 01:42:37 pm »
I see from a newspaper that the Airlines have been unable to provide hotels for all the passengers.

Hmmm. 790 flights cancelled. Let's say 120 people on each. That's 94,800 hotel beds....
It is simpler than it looks.

ian

Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #17 on: 30 August, 2023, 02:03:12 pm »
Always book your own the moment things go pear-shaped rather than wait for the airline to recommend accommodation is my advice.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #18 on: 30 August, 2023, 02:21:58 pm »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66644369

"flight data issue"

Ok, hands up, who tried to arrange a flight to "'); DROP TABLE flights; -- "?

J

A friend of mine has form for RM *.*

A colleague suggested maybe someone tried to put a palm emoji into their flight plan...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #19 on: 30 August, 2023, 06:40:45 pm »
I see from a newspaper that the Airlines have been unable to provide hotels for all the passengers.

Hmmm. 790 flights cancelled. Let's say 120 people on each. That's 94,800 hotel beds....

Of course there will be spare beds because the people whom they were intended for can’t make it out due to the same problem.
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Beardy

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Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #20 on: 30 August, 2023, 07:17:31 pm »
I see from a newspaper that the Airlines have been unable to provide hotels for all the passengers.

Hmmm. 790 flights cancelled. Let's say 120 people on each. That's 94,800 hotel beds....

Of course there will be spare beds because the people whom they were intended for can’t make it out due to the same problem.
Although not necessarily convenient for the airport.
For every complex problem in the world, there is a simple and easily understood solution that’s wrong.

TheLurker

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Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #21 on: 30 August, 2023, 07:27:29 pm »
Quote from: Regulator
I see some of the Twitter/X/GBNews frothers are blaming the French for the ATC failure...

...despite the same information being received by a number of ATC systems and processed without a major failure.  Which would suggest that it's not the data that's the issue.
Aye.  I saw the "Crashed by dodgy French data" headlines and my first thought was, "Poor or non-existent validation of incoming data coupled with poor or non-existent exception handling when faced with utter crap."  The second was, "What a piss-poor excuse for failure *that* was."

Anyone else remember the steady stream of not at all flattering stories that appeared in CW when NATS was being commissioned and the ATC software was being written / tested *mumble* decades ago?
Τα πιο όμορφα ταξίδια γίνονται με τις δικές μας δυνάμεις - Φίλοι του Ποδήλατου

Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #22 on: 30 August, 2023, 07:30:33 pm »
I see from a newspaper that the Airlines have been unable to provide hotels for all the passengers.

Hmmm. 790 flights cancelled. Let's say 120 people on each. That's 94,800 hotel beds....

Of course there will be spare beds because the people whom they were intended for can’t make it out due to the same problem.

But won’t cancel them if there’s no refund.

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #23 on: 30 August, 2023, 07:42:38 pm »
The people coming out only can't make it if they're coming from or via UK airspace. So there might be a sudden glut of cheap accomm for some places.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Beardy

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Re: Air Traffic Control failure.
« Reply #24 on: 30 August, 2023, 08:35:43 pm »
Quote from: Regulator
I see some of the Twitter/X/GBNews frothers are blaming the French for the ATC failure...

...despite the same information being received by a number of ATC systems and processed without a major failure.  Which would suggest that it's not the data that's the issue.
Aye.  I saw the "Crashed by dodgy French data" headlines and my first thought was, "Poor or non-existent validation of incoming data coupled with poor or non-existent exception handling when faced with utter crap."  The second was, "What a piss-poor excuse for failure *that* was."

Anyone else remember the steady stream of not at all flattering stories that appeared in CW when NATS was being commissioned and the ATC software was being written / tested *mumble* decades ago?
If, as NATS are claiming, it was a ‘corrupted’ flight plan that caused a long term national outage, then I’d be questioning the professionalism of each and every team leader from the requirements capture team, through the designers, the coders the testers and the operational acceptance team. In this day and age there is no acceptable reason that a single poor data set could crash a system. Buffer overflow errors are high school level stuff.

From what I’ve read/heard it was the input database that crashed, and they had a 4 hour buffer of live flights data. When they had failed to get the input database back online within that 4 hour window (that’s never going to happen Matt, 4 hours is ages enough to bring the database back on line) they had to revert to the manual system, that thankfully enough of the controllers could use.  However, that’s when the backlogs started.

But someone will have got their bonus on the back of saving all that money on implementing a proper backup system, and they have surely been promoted or retired by now.
For every complex problem in the world, there is a simple and easily understood solution that’s wrong.