Author Topic: Tour de France 2018  (Read 133900 times)

Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #175 on: 08 July, 2018, 02:48:10 pm »
This salbutamol story seems clear and you have nothing to say about it.

Why should I have something to say about it? It's a bit of a red herring. The real doubts about Froome emerged 7 years ago.

People's adverse reaction to his AAF did not occur in a vacuum.

Karla

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Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #176 on: 08 July, 2018, 02:50:22 pm »
Inhaling salbutamol has no known performance benefit. 

Who's to say he inhaled it?  The most convincing explanation I've read for his high reading was that he used a nebulizer - which is banned outright. 

Once again, the potential whys and wherefores do not matter.  There are too many of them in any case, and they're easy to spin into any story that you like.  All that matters is that Chris Froome had a substance in his urine that was prohibited from being there, and that as a professional athlete he has a strict responsibility for keeping out of his body.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #177 on: 08 July, 2018, 02:56:48 pm »
Inhaling salbutamol has no known performance benefit. 

Who's to say he inhaled it?  The most convincing explanation I've read for his high reading was that he used a nebulizer - which is banned outright. 

Once again, the potential whys and wherefores do not matter.  There are too many of them in any case, and they're easy to spin into any story that you like.  All that matters is that Chris Froome had a substance in his urine that was prohibited from being there, and that as a professional athlete he has a strict responsibility for keeping out of his body.

At which point? He either has used a nebuliser which would put a massive, known to be over the top dose into his system when leading the race. He would have had to use that before the race (you can't use one whilst riding and was observed all the way through). The pharmacokinetics support Froome's explanation of 3 or so puffs in the last 45 minutes before the sample being given and has been seen in other athletes under controlled conditions.

Some will always see everything as evidence to support their preconceptions. I have absolutely no doubt that Froome's story is biochemically feasible and consistent with the data.
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #178 on: 08 July, 2018, 02:59:40 pm »
Bodybuilders use it for weight loss.

But....I'm pretty much with David on this with the caveat that there is something strange about the process of this case.

Months and months and then news that it wouldn't be resolved pre-ride, ASO steps in and...BLAM...It's resolved

Karla

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Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #179 on: 08 July, 2018, 03:07:07 pm »
At which point?  How about in the team but the night before .  Team buses have been known to contain plenty of things they shouldn't.

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #180 on: 08 July, 2018, 03:16:34 pm »
France Télévision's soundtrack has got its balls in a knot: they just told the story of Chavanel's wheels four times in a row.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Nick H.

Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #181 on: 08 July, 2018, 03:18:39 pm »
Froome's psychology is worth thinking about. If he's trying to pull an Armstrong and be a systematic doper and win numerous GTs, knowing that he could be busted in 20 years when his samples are retested with better technology, and lose his titles and be sued for millions...if he's doing that it suggests stunning expertise in barefaced lying and a serious personality disorder. He just doesn't come across like that. OK, psychopaths are often very charming and popular and are never suspected by their friends and family...but even so, I just don't detect any narcissism in Froome. Even the friendly psychopaths display a lot of narcissism.

What we've learned recently, I think, is that his demeanour and protestations of innocence look exactly the same, whether on the subject of this innocent salbutamol result or earlier accusations that he was improbably good in the 2011 Vuelta and his bilharzia story was a lie and he's the biggest cheat since Lance. 

Beardy

  • Shedist
Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #182 on: 08 July, 2018, 03:21:19 pm »
France Télévision's soundtrack has got its balls in a knot: they just told the story of Chavanel's wheels four times in a row.
well, they are BIG wheels  ;D
For every complex problem in the world, there is a simple and easily understood solution that’s wrong.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #183 on: 08 July, 2018, 03:26:11 pm »
At which point?  How about in the team but the night before .  Team buses have been known to contain plenty of things they shouldn't.

Do the pharmacokinetics. Doesn't hold water. If he was giving that kind of level at the end of the day from a dose the night before then they have really screwed the calculations.  Are you trying to find evidence that agrees with a preconceived opinion?
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Nick H.

Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #184 on: 08 July, 2018, 03:27:30 pm »
France Télévision's soundtrack has got its balls in a knot: they just told the story of Chavanel's wheels four times in a row.
well, they are BIG wheels  ;D

He might have 3d printed titanium ones - $1700 for a derailleur cage! I want! http://road.cc/content/news/218868-3d-printed-titanium-ceramicspeed-jockey-wheels-1700

Beardy

  • Shedist
Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #185 on: 08 July, 2018, 03:28:32 pm »
Froome's psychology is worth thinking about. If he's trying to pull an Armstrong and be a systematic doper and win numerous GTs, knowing that he could be busted in 20 years when his samples are retested with better technology, and lose his titles and be sued for millions...if he's doing that it suggests stunning expertise in barefaced lying and a serious personality disorder. He just doesn't come across like that. OK, psychopaths are often very charming and popular and are never suspected by their friends and family...but even so, I just don't detect any narcissism in Froome. Even the friendly psychopaths display a lot of narcissism.

What we've learned recently, I think, is that his demeanour and protestations of innocence look exactly the same, whether on the subject of this innocent salbutamol result or earlier accusations that he was improbably good in the 2011 Vuelta and his bilharzia story was a lie and he's the biggest cheat since Lance.
He’s a top level professional cyclist, I think a serious personality disorder is a given ;D
For every complex problem in the world, there is a simple and easily understood solution that’s wrong.

Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #186 on: 08 July, 2018, 03:28:41 pm »
bla

You may have missed this but....Armstrong is still both a multi-millionaire and a public figure.

When asked if he'd do it all again knowing what he knows now his answer was "Yes".

Think about that for a minute.

Karla

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Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #187 on: 08 July, 2018, 04:17:58 pm »
At which point?  How about in the team but the night before .  Team buses have been known to contain plenty of things they shouldn't.

Do the pharmacokinetics. Doesn't hold water. If he was giving that kind of level at the end of the day from a dose the night before then they have really screwed the calculations.  Are you trying to find evidence that agrees with a preconceived opinion?

No, I've been trying to give Froome e benefit of the doubt for years.  What I'm seeing here though is weak arguments from personality that have been fine to death by dopers before, inexplicable behaviour by e.g. the UCI that stinks of corruption, claims by the Sky camp about the drug and the test that should have resulted in many more people getting banned by now for innocent use of a common therapy if eprocedure really is as bad as they say it is ... so I do t care about the reasons any more than I care about whether Contador really did eat a Spanish steak.  He's got an overdose of ventolin in him, it shouldn't be there, it's his responsibility to stop it being there so it is (or ought to be) his problem.

Nick H.

Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #188 on: 08 July, 2018, 04:29:09 pm »
This thread has gone downhill. How about we stick to the race?

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #189 on: 08 July, 2018, 04:32:33 pm »
Sagan is boring.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
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Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #190 on: 08 July, 2018, 04:52:36 pm »
This thread has gone downhill. How about we stick to the race?

Yeah. About 7 fucking pages ago.
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #191 on: 08 July, 2018, 05:00:53 pm »
Very fractious - It is always nice to see Sagan win.
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Mr Larrington

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Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #192 on: 08 July, 2018, 05:23:02 pm »
As if by legerdemain...

Stage 2: Mouilleron-Saint-Germain > La Roche-sur-Yon

G Imlach:O hai! I am TV's G Imlach, and I am excellent!
NC Boardman:O hai! I am TV's Niec C Boardman, and I, also, am excellent!
Bethany [8]:O hai! I am Bethany [8] and I haz a headache! Mi mum iz a fukn c-o-w innit!
G Imlach:Here iz a shiny BRITONS' pound, little gril. Go fone sum1 who cares!
Omnes:Oh dear, G Imlach! U reely shouldn't hav doned that...
G Imlach:So, C Froome A Yates R Porte! I Montoya N Quintana! F Gardenia! V Nibbles G Thomas TD Windmill M Landa R Bardet & Bethany [8]'s Dad!
C Froome:Sketchy!
A Yates:Sketchy!
NC Boardman:CP Sagan metronomicable!
Omnes:Isn't it a bit early for covfefe, NC?
G Imlach:Team tiem trial G Thomas?
NC Boardman:Yes, no and maybe.
G Imlach:Thank u, Niec C! [Aside] Idiot! Over 2 teh colemantators...
N Boulting:O hai! I am TV's *** Boulting! Son ov a SCIENTIST, daughter ov darkness, 2 4 teh priec ov 1!
SD Millar:O hai! I am TV's Super D Millar, and I am...
Omnes:Hat! Hat! Wanky baseball cap! U utter div, Super D!
SD Millar:I hate u all!
N Boulting:FFS! Now I'll hav 2 cope wif Mr Grumpyknickers all day!
[...]
C Prudhomme:Fckity-bai, grubby cyclists!
SD Millar:Wind! S ["Poisonous term" - Ed.]anel?
N Boulting:Wind! Cofidis!
SD Millar:F Craddock! At teh back. Teh silly.
N Boulting:Château! Clemenceau! Historize us, Super D!
SD Millar:
N Boulting:S ["Poisonous term" - Ed.]anel! Hi-status individual! Fish ponds!
M Kitteh:Did sum1 sa "fish"? I liek fish! Also, miaow!
SD Millar:Snottyjumper F Gardenia? CP Sagan!
[...]
N Boulting:Look, see, another sonically-challenged Frenchman with a punk rock electric guitar! Tiem 4 drinkies & nibbles!
V Nibbles:What did I do?
M Smith:O hai I am TV's M Smith excellent tremendous mi prisoner toda iz P Kennaugh sa helo 2 teh niec boys & grils P Kennaugh!
P Kennaugh:O hai clouds o bai $ky team bus o hai *** & Super D! M Smith, y u pointing that revolver @ me?
N Boulting & SD Millar:
M Smith:They've buggered off! TV's Wooden D Friebe & M Cavendish!
M Cavendish:Mumble wind biek Bora Quick Step mutter sassumfrassum Rick Rastardly!
M Smith:M Cavendish record E Merckx stage win?
P Kennaugh:Yes, no, CP Sagan! Disqualibobificationism: fail!
Bethany [8]:Yes, P Kennaugh, that's what I said. Last year, when I was still calling miself "Bethany (7)"!
@johnlordknox (via Twitter):Is CP Sagan really nuts?*
P Kennaugh:Yes. Yes, he is.+
CP Sagan:C!!1! I told u I was crazy!
[...]
N Boulting:We're baaaaaaaaack! R Porte! Trek Segafredo!
P Kennaugh:Can I go now? I haz a plane 2 catch!
M Smith:Tip 4 teh win, or u stay here!
P Kennaugh:TD Windmill R Porte R Bardet not C Froome! Plz 2 untie me!
SD Millar:[Snoring]
NC Boardman:Belgian BEER! Night out inna glass!
N Boulting:It's mi birthday on Wednesday hint hint#!
NC Boardman:London Marathon! Surgical gloves! Vaseline! Coat plz!
N Boulting:Oi oi! Wot CP Sagan up to?
Omnes:Ur job 2 tell us, ***, u doppo!
NC Boardman:Wind! Sunglasses! Even when it ate'nt sunny!
N Boulting:2CVs inna bicycle stylee!
NC Boardman:Looks liek Nobby & Dick's Auto Salvage (Finchley) 2 me!
SD Millar:[Advanced snoring]
Bethany [8]:Not much happening, then?
Omnes:Teh uzhul. SD Millar iz aslepe, *** & Niec C are talking utter nonse & teh Watchfinder-General iz getting on everyone's tits!
Bethany [8]:Ta! Gotta stay in 2da coz mi mum's bein a fukn c-o-w agen...
N Boulting:Y Lampaert! Nun moar Belgian!
SD Millar:T Grmay! Abandonnement! Perhaps he iz not well?
A Demare:Being ill didn't stop me last year, u gr8 ponce!
T FdJ:Yes it did! And it stopped us 2, u massive tw@!
N Bouhanni (via Snapstagram):Mi crocogator iz weeping copiously on mi behalf!
[...]
N Boulting:M Cavendish M Renshaw RJV Rensburg! Necklace** promble!
SD Millar:
N Boulting:R Molard crash road rash magic spray?
SD Millar:I went mouldy once. Motorbike. Hostipal. Uncool!
Omnes:Unexpected side-effect ov wankhattery, Super D?
SD Millar:Fck! Off!
[...]
N Boulting:Jumpers CP Sagan shiny snotty rainbow national Sagan 2!
Omnes:Wait... wot? There's 2? Ov them?
S ["Poisonous term" - Ed.]anel:Nevva mind him, wot about me! 6 tiems tiem-trail champion ov France, 18 Tours, gaining over teh pelican and... Aargh! I'm covered in bees!
Bethany [8]:What did he just say?
SD Millar:A bee. On hiz arm. Closest thing 2 xitement we get until teh sprint sprint sprintEEEE.
[...]
N Boulting:Combativité! Super Combativité! TD Gendt W Barguil chiz chiz!
Bethany [8]:Watch urself, ***! A bit ov teh old ultra-violence nevva hurt ne1, exept teh recipient! U betta tell G Imlach 2!
N Boulting:TB Hansgrohe! Full bifter!
Omnes:U akshually kno wot a "bifter" iz, ***?
CP Sagan:Points! Points 4 meeeeeeeeee! Crazy!
A Demare:Noes! Pwned!
N Bouhanni (via Twitchat):Prostrate wif grief, I iz! I bet u paid full-priec 4 a DFS sofa 2!
[...]
SD Millar:Crash!
N Boulting:LL Sanchez!
LL Sanchez:O-NOES! EX-TER-MIN-A-TED AL-READ-Y!
T AS-TA-NA:ON UR BI-EK U DOG!
LL Sanchez:FCK! OFF!
j Birdsong:Melancholy Supremes lyric goes here ==>
[...]
N Boulting:Core strength! Athlete! CP Sagan!
SD Millar:Not in mi day. Thank fck!
N Boulting:Wind!
Omnes:Shut! Up!
N Boulting:S ["Poisonous term" - Ed.]anel sprint inevitable inevitability!
SD Millar:
Omnes:Our father. Which art in Evans. Hollowtech b thi naem. Give us this minit shitverts, b4 we rise up and tolchock *** robustly about teh gulliver!
Shitverts:Buy! Shopping is power! Buy McShit! Debt is freedom! Buy peanuts! Get jailed jump bail join teh Air Force if u FAIL! Buy boiler maintenance from a penguin with a scarf on! Buy insewerants from horrible stage school brats and a bona-fide tw@ with a stupid moustache! Buy!
Omnes:On 2nd thorts...
[...]
A Yates:Iz just mi paranoia kicking in or iz Cofidis knocking every1 in2 teh gutter? Also, owwwwwww!
LL Sanchez:U TELL ME!!?!
N Boulting:Wheel change! A Demare!
N Bouhanni (via wol):LOL and, moreover, roffle!
[...]
N Boulting:Vendée! So mani people it cud b Yorkshire! Bonerfication sprint, Super D!
SD Millar:Tactics, Tic-Tacs. Yes, no and maybe.
N Boulting:Thank u, Super D! [Aside] Idiot!
S ["Poisonous term" - Ed.]anel:Yay! Boner 4 me! That was hard fnarr fnarr!
G Thomas:And boner 4 me also! Pls be upstanding lol!
5:Ai'm sure Ai don't know what u mean, J G Thomas!
G Thomas:Er, ask ur mam?
[...]
TP Fairy:O hai! O hai, M Kitteh! Stab, stab, stabEEEEE!
M Kitteh:Arse and, moreover, miaow!
[Enfin]
N Boulting:Crash! F Gardenia! Who's left CP Sagan S Colbrelli J Degenkolb A Greipel teh goriler ov 3b!
Omnes:Munkeh!!1!
SD Millar:J Alaphilippe!
J Alaphilippe:RAAAAWWWWWWWRR... oh. Piss!
CP Sagan:Cool! Shinyjumper! Snottyjumper! Very 'appee!
Omnes:Wait... what! He nevva said "crazy"! Has he gone mad?
J Degenkolb:I wuz robbed! CP Sagan knifecrimed me! He shot me! He threw a shoe @ me and poked me wif a stick! He used Novichok! He...
N Boulting & SD Millar:That's biek racing!
Omnes:Ne moar profundities ud liek 2 share, u 2?
N Boulting & SD Millar:Fck! Off!

* Actual question.
+ Actual rnser. Almost.
# Trufax.
** Actual translation of Dutch word "ketting" by Farcebok.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #193 on: 08 July, 2018, 06:10:21 pm »
This thread has gone downhill. How about we stick to the race?

Yeah. About 7 fucking pages ago.
+27

Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #194 on: 08 July, 2018, 06:32:54 pm »
I agree.

Can we all agree to keep doping matters on the 'Sky....gaming the system' thread?

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #195 on: 08 July, 2018, 08:23:40 pm »
Sounds good.

How about a sweepstake for when Geraint Thomas first falls off?  I'm going for stage 5.

SoreTween

  • Most of me survived the Pennine Bridleway.
Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #196 on: 08 July, 2018, 08:43:43 pm »
Mr L Sir, could you ask Bethany [8] for her most excellent judgement on a matter that has been bothering me these past two days, I'm sure I'm not alone:

Niki Terpstra, 2 syllables or 3 in the surname?

He seems to have lost one in N Bolton's pronunciation since last year.
2023 targets: Survive. Maybe.
There is only one infinite resource in this universe; human stupidity.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #197 on: 08 July, 2018, 09:23:02 pm »
Bethany [8]:Search me, m8 ill get 5 mi bff 2 aks her mum shes ded clevva an speeks loadsa langwiches xXx bethany

Edit:

5’s Mummy:Air, hellay! Vivalda tells me you have a question about pronunciation.  Mai friend Arnold* recommends this: Click, tap or othairwise engage with this site. Yours, Syrah Poulidor-Featherstonehaugh (Mrs)

* who is Dutch
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

SoreTween

  • Most of me survived the Pennine Bridleway.
Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #198 on: 09 July, 2018, 10:00:32 am »
 :thumbsup:
2023 targets: Survive. Maybe.
There is only one infinite resource in this universe; human stupidity.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #199 on: 09 July, 2018, 10:49:58 am »
I agree.

Can we all agree to keep doping matters on the 'Sky....gaming the system' thread?

Umm - how about the doping in the peloton thread as that is more general.
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes