Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => Topic started by: Chris S on 06 June, 2010, 10:09:02 pm
-
There's no rule to say you can't use more than one bike on an audax is there?
I've read stories of folks' bikes breaking in half, and them legging it home for a replacement, but I'm talking about a premeditated change at a point in a route.
Both would be fixed gear, so wouldn't flout any FG restriction - though gearing is different (but still fixed, not SS).
There are legit reasons for wanting to swap bike part way through. The official route passes near my home, so it's not like I'm calling on a support vehicle or anything.
-
PBP used to put seals on bikes to prevent bike changes but that rule went out decades ago. Swap away!
-
It's possibly not in the spirit of the FWC to deliberately change the gearing part way round
Otherwise, using more than one bike on an event is not that unusual.
-
Tell me again about flipping the rear wheel around on the Gospel Pass?
-
It's possibly not in the spirit of the FWC to deliberately change the gearing part way round
Y'see - that's why I asked. I had it in the back of my mind that Mr FWC doesn't wholly approve of wheel flipping, and therefore by implication, bike flipping.
But they are both fixed gears. I don't really understand what the issue is - it's a "Fixed Wheel" challenge, not "Single Speed" or "Fixed Gear" challenge.
*looks around*
*sees "Minefield" sign*
Oh.
-
Tell me again about flipping the rear wheel around on the Gospel Pass?
Only once, and that before Phixie made it clear that such things were frowned upon.
-
Erm... mods - this thread is taking on a, how shall we say, "specialist" aspect. Feel free to move it to the appropriate Fixed Wheel Dept if deemed appropriate.
-
on the Severn Across which completed my first SR; being the last 400 in the calendar (long before the days I would have considered a perm anything), I had a reserve bike waiting to be transported to me should I need it (I didn't); there doesn't seem to be any AUK rule about using your own independent rescue / repair service so I imagine this also applies to the bike.
I know of one rider who swapped his tandem for a (DNF's ) single after losing his stoker on PBP (complete tangent; I had a rider on my event turn up with his wife on tandem having just entered himself, no idea where AUK insurance would stand on that but they were both CTC so not an issue)
-
I know somebody who got a replacement bike driven to him to let him finish a Chapman. No problems with that. I think Phixie is a bit fundamentalist but in any case, there is no rule against flipping a wheel or swapping bikes.
-
I think Phixie is a bit fundamentalist but in any case, there is no rule against flipping a wheel or swapping bikes.
Hmm... That's possibly my thinking too. But at the same time, it's also important to me to keep to the spirit of the thing, as well as the rules.
-
If you self-flagellate with bamboo strips whilst riding uphill it is ok to wheel flip
-
I have been toying with this too, but doing some fixed and some not. If the route is, for example, 2 x 100k loops, what's to stop me swapping bikes (although obviously I'd only claim fixed for the part that was)?
If you self-flagellate with bamboo strips whilst riding uphill it is ok to wheel flip
I only have leather straps for this. Is that OK?
-
But they are both fixed gears. I don't really understand what the issue is - it's a "Fixed Wheel" challenge, not "Single Speed" or "Fixed Gear" challenge.
In the narrative I read from the FWC Administrator I think I read that he considers the choice of gear for the route as part of the challenge. Just don't claim the FWC points and you'll have nothing on you conscience.
(although obviously I'd only claim fixed for the part that was)?
Is that possible ?
-
I've often toyed with the idea of starting the Brevet Cymru on a Brompton, or something equally unsuitable, and then swap to my audax bike when I pass my house a few miles in.
I nearly asked Mrs Tewdric to bring my mountain bike to Hay on the Gospel Pass once too.
-
I'd have no qualms about swapping bikes, I wouldn't claim FWC points if I swapped bikes with different gears.
-
You aren't able to claim 'odd bike' points for a portion of a ride, only if you use the same sort of 'odd bike' for the whole brevet.
-
3peaker lost a wheel on LEL: started on a trike and finished on a 2wheel jobbe.
I hear cyclocross types switch bikes mid event (i.e, Rob Jebb at 3 Peak Cyclocross).
But Mr Smith, what are these legit reasons you speak of?
-
I only have leather straps for this. Is that OK?
Hang on that is nothing to do with cycling - surely these are a bedroom toy ::-)
-
But they are both fixed gears. I don't really understand what the issue is - it's a "Fixed Wheel" challenge, not "Single Speed" or "Fixed Gear" challenge.
*looks around*
*sees "Minefield" sign*
Oh.
The name doesn't specify, but yes it is a Single Gear Fixed Wheel Challenge. That is clear as things like S-A S3X are explicitly not allowed.
If you want to change bikes then you have two choices: have the same gear on each; or do another 200 the day after to get the FWC points. Actually, you have a third choice - claim the points anyway no-one is going to care other than yourself, so why would you want to complete the FWC knowing you were outwith the spirit of the challenge?
-
Not a FWC guy ( although I have ridden a couple of 200's on fixed).
Is the forum really telling me that I could not flip a rear wheel if I was doing a ride with some serious hills towards the end - and I needed a lower gear to make my ride pleasurable?
-
I believe that "it's frowned upon" probably covers it with respect to the FWC.
-
(complete tangent; I had a rider on my event turn up with his wife on tandem having just entered himself, no idea where AUK insurance would stand on that but they were both CTC so not an issue)
Not a problem as far as insurance is concerned if the additional member is in the CTC - but this is a bit cheeky. This is just the same as one person entering the ride, and all his clubmates simply following round, blocking up cafes, possibly even consuming refreshments. I would welcome the tandem rider but ask for another entry fee to help cover the event costs
-
Not a FWC guy ( although I have ridden a couple of 200's on fixed).
Is the forum really telling me that I could not flip a rear wheel if I was doing a ride with some serious hills towards the end - and I needed a lower gear to make my ride pleasurable?
If you are not doing the FWC then using more than one gear is fine. The piece I read from the FWC Administrator made me think he thought it should be outlawed.
here is where he said it
SA S3X and the FWC (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=20136.msg361264#msg361264)
and he said
I have no problem with choosing a different size gear for a different event - say 90" for a flat ride in East Anglia or 50" for a Super Grimpeur, but prefer the ratio to be unchanged during that ride.
my emphasis
-
There's no rule to say you can't use more than one bike on an audax is there?
I see a "can of worms being opened".
You don't have to use a bike** when participating on an audax. Probably the most notable example in recent years was At the 2003 PBP. the bar for "weirdest machine to finish" was raised very high by a Finn named Alpo Kuusisto. He successfully completed the event on a scooter! Thrust forward by his tennis shoes upon the pavement, he "kicked" PBP in about 84.5 hours and arrived at the finish line in Guyancourt at about 10:30 a.m. on Friday.
**The term bike refers to any form of monocycle/bicycle/tricycle you care to think of.
The problem basicly lies in the fact that categories within AUK are set-up with very loose and abiguous conditions (I hesitate to use the term rules). These then get interpreted in an almost infinite number of ways. I dislike the necessity for having procedures (having worked to them for 30 years before I retired), but they do have their place. Everyone knows where they stand, or sit, or pedal - or free-wheel ......
-
Is the forum really telling me that I could not flip a rear wheel if I was doing a ride with some serious hills towards the end - and I needed a lower gear to make my ride pleasurable?
According to the rules there's nothing to say you can't.
According to the spirit you shouldn't. You should either suffer with a low gear for the flat part of the ride in order to make the hills at the end easier, or ride the first part with a big gear and suffer in the hills at the end, or find a pyrrhic compromise.
I did the whole of LEL on 67" without a problem, even with that tailwind across the flatlands heading North on day 1. If I need multiple gears on a ride I'll ride a bike with gears.
On the LEL recce ride I did in March '09 I did swap gears between days 1 and 2, but I'd entered the rides as individual DIYs (300,200,200) so there was no change of gear during a ride. What it taught me was that it's more hassle than it's worth and to just HTFU and pick a gear in the middle and get on with it.
Do what you want, but don't be surprised if you get the odd sharp look from people who would prefer the FWC to have an explicit rule preventing gear changes mid ride.
-
I'll let the fundamentalists do whatever they like but I'll stick to the rules. "Prefer" is not a rule.
-
(complete tangent; I had a rider on my event turn up with his wife on tandem having just entered himself, no idea where AUK insurance would stand on that but they were both CTC so not an issue)
Not a problem as far as insurance is concerned if the additional member is in the CTC - but this is a bit cheeky. This is just the same as one person entering the ride, and all his clubmates simply following round, blocking up cafes, possibly even consuming refreshments. I would welcome the tandem rider but ask for another entry fee to help cover the event costs
in this case it wasn't cheeky; he explicitly said his stoker would not use any of the facilities even the toilets in hall at the start, although I did let her use all the facilities including the free lunch provided by me. And yes I've had the "enter one get three free" brigade who also used no facilities and even paid for lunch (but they seem to have moved on to sportives now)
-
I always through that the FWC was more about riding freewheel-less than picking one gear and sticking to it. Flippng the wheel seems to me like a savvy use of bike set up for those rides that are perhaps East Anglian flat for all but the one leg where the organiser would like to show you some lovely views. Riding fixed itself is different to riding geared, surely this is where the challenge would lie.
Mind you, it isn't that relevant to me. When I get round to riding fixed it'll be on nice flat routes with nothing more challenging than the col d' railway bridge.
-
the col d' railway bridge.
;D
-
IMind you, it isn't that relevant to me. When I get round to riding fixed it'll be on nice flat routes with nothing more challenging than the col d' railway bridge.
I seem to remember Bernard Mawson who organised the Long Flat One said on occasion that after the electrification of the East Coast Main Line, all the bridges had to be raised so the event now attracted AAA points ;D
-
I hope this reply will clarify matters and cap the can of worms more successfully than BP’s recent efforts.
In an ideal world (i.e. not this one) I feel there should be just a single gear available, but in the real world I am fairly laid back about riders flipping a wheel for a different gear – it won’t be that different, anyway. Equally I have no problems with a rider who has experienced mechanical problems finishing the ride on another machine, irrespective of any change of gear size. As far as the FWC is concerned, if both are fixed-gear machines, there is no issue. If, OTOH, the replacement machine uses a freewheel, then none of the ride can be counted towards the challenge. To amplify: if you are on a 600 and are forced to change from fixed to freewheel after, say, 400km, then even if you complete the ride and have earned six points to gain your SR Series, you are not entitled to any FWC / SFW points. In that respect, you abandoned the ride as far as the fixed challenge is concerned, though not for the general classification.
The question of a pre-planned change of mounts part way through the event is intriguing and needs further explanation why such a change is required; presumably there are other considerations apart from a simple change of gear size.
-
The question of a pre-planned change of mounts part way through the event is intriguing and needs further explanation why such a change is required; presumably there are other considerations apart from a simple change of gear size.
:)
The bike I plan to use for the first 250km of a 400 is my preferred bike. But it doesn't have a rack. After I complete the audax, I am riding home (about 120km, not ECE - this is just for utiity) and will be collecting something en-route that will need a pannier and a rack; hence the motivation to change bike to one with a rack.
It's no big deal really - I'll ride the racked bike all the way round. TBH - this thread escalated somewhat, once I'd let it loose ;).
-
The question of a pre-planned change of mounts part way through the event is intriguing and needs further explanation why such a change is required; presumably there are other considerations apart from a simple change of gear size.
:)
The bike I plan to use for the first 250km of a 400 is my preferred bike. But it doesn't have a rack. After I complete the audax, I am riding home (about 120km, not ECE - this is just for utiity) and will be collecting something en-route that will need a pannier and a rack; hence the motivation to change bike to one with a rack.
It's no big deal really - I'll ride the racked bike all the way round. TBH - this thread escalated somewhat, once I'd let it loose ;).
Now I feel really guilty! You can't use a non-preferred bike just to collect my shower gel and nightie! We'll ride back with you and carry the pannier...
-
Now I feel really guilty! You can't use a non-preferred bike just to collect my shower gel and nightie! We'll ride back with you and carry the pannier...
Don't feel guilty. This is how I work. I like to incorporate one ride with another. But your company, panniered in my stead, would be equally righteous.
-
...after the electrification of the East Coast Main Line, all the bridges had to be raised so the event now attracted AAA points
I rode the Flitchbikes 200 on Saturday. Although there were much bigger hills, the Col du A14 road bridge was the one that had me nearly throwing up...
-
PBP used to put seals on bikes to prevent bike changes but that rule went out decades ago. Swap away!
I'm amused by the idea of PBP putting seals on bikes, I see what they mean by flipping the wheel now!
-
PBP used to put seals on bikes to prevent bike changes but that rule went out decades ago. Swap away!
I'm amused by the idea of PBP putting seals on bikes,
That was back in the day when the event not just demonstrated the endurance of the riders but of the bikes. It was considered important that manufacturers not be able to cheat.
-
3peaker lost a wheel on LEL: started on a trike and finished on a 2wheel jobbe.
At least two other trikies have finished earlier LELs sans a wheel.
-
Rick Carpenter finished LEL on another rider's bike after a crash and being patched up at Doncaster Royal, I hope he has better luck on RAAM.
http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=202983
-
PBP used to put seals on bikes to prevent bike changes but that rule went out decades ago. Swap away!
I'm amused by the idea of PBP putting seals on bikes, I see what they mean by flipping the wheel now!
From reading the LEL reports, it sounds like they might have been suited to those conditions too...
-
Manotea: 3peaker lost a wheel on LEL: started on a trike and finished on a 2wheel jobbe.
Phixie: In that respect, you abandoned the ride as far as the fixed challenge is concerned, though not for the general classification. (Slightly out of context but sentiment remains valid?)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On a Poor Student 200 a few years back, my handlebar snapped. With a choice of pack or slip into Cheltenham to change steads (and still recover a car from Oxford), my option to change steads resulted in +20kms, 2 points and a story for Arrivee.
Back in 2006 I started the New Forest 1000 on Trike. As the route had 3 loops from a Common S/F Control, I packed a spare solo. My thinking behind this was if I went out of time on Trike, I could switch to Solo and catch up. In the event, I finished on Trike with 15mins to spare having suffered several pun**ures and having stripped my Solo wheels of Tubes.
Then on last year’s LEL, and going for various big Trophies on Trike, I had rear cassette loosening before Doncaster. I staggered into Thorne and miraculously Danial W (eternal thanks) loaned me his Solo for the Northern 800km loop. Duly completed, we managed a Tie-wrap repair to the Trike Cassette, which, while not perfect, enabled a working gearbox for the flatter southern route home. So, 14 points and I claimed 6 for Trike. Tut tut…..aesthetics came into play as I claimed those 6 points towards a new Trike Record, previously at 102 and I was claiming 109. The aesthetics Committee sat and discredited my 6 points claim for the Record, reducing my points to 103. Had I not kept plugging for Trikie points till the last day of the season (literally), my disappointment would have been a huge blow for a year of Trikie-bashing. As it was, I recorded my first (and probably only) 100+ season and on Trike to boot. A few Solo rides and the credit of all LEL points as solo enabled me to take the Vets Trophy with 123 points.
There is a message there. Finish the ride and then discuss?
SteveP
-
I know of one rider who swapped his tandem for a (DNF's ) single after losing his stoker on PBP
Utterly trivial by comparison, but I had my stoker's knee give up 20km into the London Sightseer, so I rode the rest of the ride solo on the tandem. You get some funny looks.
-
I've mentioned this before, but one of my clubmates had a t-shirt that said on the back:
"If you can read this, my stoker has fallen off" ;D
-
Utterly trivial by comparison, but I had my stoker's knee give up 20km into the London Sightseer, so I rode the rest of the ride solo on the tandem. You get some funny looks.
(http://www.haigh.org/solotandem.jpg)
-
I rode the Only for Softies finishing today. I'm afraid I wrecked my first choice bike after only 5mls, took a couple of hours walking to collect the car driving home, picking up another bike and managing to finish the event without going out of time at any point. If I have to forego my points C'est la vie! I'll just have to ride another. Very much a plus point it makes the case for another machine that much stronger.
-
I rode the Only for Softies finishing today. I'm afraid I wrecked my first choice bike after only 5mls, took a couple of hours walking to collect the car driving home, picking up another bike and managing to finish the event without going out of time at any point. If I have to forego my points C'est la vie! I'll just have to ride another.
Well done bodach. Maybe you should get extra points, for being such a nutter. :demon:
-
When I started cycling in the 60s it was mandatory to be a nutter. Now it is purely optional Eck.
-
When I started cycling in the 60s it was mandatory to be a nutter. Now it is purely optional Eck.
Some of the people I have met seem to make it fashionable
-
There's no rule to say you can't use more than one bike on an audax is there?
I've read stories of folks' bikes breaking in half, and them legging it home for a replacement, but I'm talking about a premeditated change at a point in a route.
Both would be fixed gear, so wouldn't flout any FG restriction - though gearing is different (but still fixed, not SS).
There are legit reasons for wanting to swap bike part way through. The official route passes near my home, so it's not like I'm calling on a support vehicle or anything.
I've done this a few times, in Italy on the mille miglia 1000 miles. My crank broke and I managed to borrow another bike to complete the ride. Also on the mille cymru also I borrowed a bike after a chain break.
Sent from my Lenovo P2a42 using Tapatalk
-
Good to hear from you again, after that dreadful crash in New Zealand.
-
I rode the Only for Softies finishing today. I'm afraid I wrecked my first choice bike after only 5mls, took a couple of hours walking to collect the car driving home, picking up another bike and managing to finish the event without going out of time at any point. If I have to forego my points C'est la vie! I'll just have to ride another.
Well done bodach. Maybe you should get extra points, for being such a nutter. :demon:
Was that really only 7 years ago?
-
Holy Thread Revival!
But they are both fixed gears. I don't really understand what the issue is - it's a "Fixed Wheel" challenge, not "Single Speed" or "Fixed Gear" challenge.
In the narrative I read from the FWC Administrator I think I read that he considers the choice of gear for the route as part of the challenge. Just don't claim the FWC points and you'll have nothing on you conscience.
And somewhat holey quoting... this comes from Phixie's comments regarding the SA-S3X which was the flavour of the month for a while (I blame Rogerzilla...). Phixie also noted that whilst he preferred riders used a single gear he accepted that in the real world wheels might be flipped. A gear change based on a trigger system however is a cat of a very different stripe.
-
Quite some years ago, in '99, a fixie rider appeared at the Willesden Battle Van in Loudéac. He had broken a drop out and was driven to the control by the organisers. There was a bike, belonging to Yvonne, in the battle van which had the right size. So he borrowed it and was brought back to the original point by the organisers. When he passed Loudéac again we tweaked the bike a bit and he finished on it. Later on I heard that the control staff checked with Paris and this bike swap was officially accepted.
-
Hoppo switched bikes as he passed home (near Middleton Tyas) in both directions on this year's LEL. He used a Time trial bike for the flatter southern section, and a road bike for the hillier Northern section
-
It's possibly not in the spirit of the FWC...
Therapeutic exemption without the drugs?