audaxing vegan

[Ben T]

Hi,

While I have some admiration for people who feel strongly enough about a moral issue to go vegan it is vary hard to follow and from a biological view is not natural. There are plenty of sties on this and there are lots about how restricted diet affects mental health. See
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201211/youre-vegetarian-have-you-lost-your-mind
Which is one of many.
I have wondered how various population groups in the world could eat vegan diets. Look at people who live in cold climates, there is just not enough plant matter for it to work.

Basically is you miss out any of the food groups you will have problems. Vegan food is really quite nice, but I also eat almost everything. The only thing I cannot consume is cheap wine. It is horrible. All this diet stuff really is a first world problem that could not be maintained if we lived in a rural idyll and relies on our globalisation and food processing.

Just a comment ....

BB

Did you actually read all of that?

Temporally, the adoption of a vegetarian diet, on average, tended to follow the mental health diagnosis, suggesting that the vegetarian diet was not in fact causal.

It possibly does suggest causality the other way round though

[mrcharly-YHT]

hmm, just like the links between those who like Dan Brown novels and certain behaviours.

[Delph Cyclist]

There is a Vegetarian Cycling and Athletic Club (which includes vegans) - they are a recognised club for Audax points.

Yes.  The one just above VC Escargot on the Clubs List

[Bianchi Boy]

Hi,

While I have some admiration for people who feel strongly enough about a moral issue to go vegan it is vary hard to follow and from a biological view is not natural. There are plenty of sties on this and there are lots about how restricted diet affects mental health. See
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201211/youre-vegetarian-have-you-lost-your-mind
Which is one of many.
I have wondered how various population groups in the world could eat vegan diets. Look at people who live in cold climates, there is just not enough plant matter for it to work.

Basically is you miss out any of the food groups you will have problems. Vegan food is really quite nice, but I also eat almost everything. The only thing I cannot consume is cheap wine. It is horrible. All this diet stuff really is a first world problem that could not be maintained if we lived in a rural idyll and relies on our globalisation and food processing.

Just a comment ....

BB

Did you actually read all of that?

Temporally, the adoption of a vegetarian diet, on average, tended to follow the mental health diagnosis, suggesting that the vegetarian diet was not in fact causal.

It possibly does suggest causality the other way round though

So are you suggesting that vegetarians are just nuts anyway and the diet comes later?
BB

[lahoski]

Just a comment ....

It's not though, mate. I was interested to read a thread about vegan nutrition and long distance cycling and hoping to find some useful tips. Instead I feel belittled by someone else's unconsidered and uninvited opinion.

[mattc]

Eh-eh, calm down! No need to fall-out. I'm sure BB only meant well; perhaps worth rereading his initial words:

Hi,

While I have some admiration for people who feel strongly enough about a moral issue to go vegan, it is very hard to follow

Peace and love dudes 

[Bianchi Boy]

Eh-eh, calm down! No need to fall-out. I'm sure BB only meant well; perhaps worth rereading his initial words:

Hi,

While I have some admiration for people who feel strongly enough about a moral issue to go vegan, it is very hard to follow

Peace and love dudes 

Hi I have no axe to grind on diet, but if you choose to exclude some major food groups that we are evolved to eat, there will be problems. Look at the Atkins diet, fruitarians and many other restricted diets. They all have problems and the fact that Vegans spend so much time researching and trying to sort out what they eat tells you something. If you feel there is a moral stand to make then  you are more principalled than me who only uses his taste buds to select food.

Good luck with trying to follow the vegan way, but it is not what we evolved to eat.

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[LMT]

Eh-eh, calm down! No need to fall-out. I'm sure BB only meant well; perhaps worth rereading his initial words:

Hi,

While I have some admiration for people who feel strongly enough about a moral issue to go vegan, it is very hard to follow

Peace and love dudes 

Hi I have no axe to grind on diet, but if you choose to exclude some major food groups that we are evolved to eat, there will be problems. Look at the Atkins diet, fruitarians and many other restricted diets. They all have problems and the fact that Vegans spend so much time researching and trying to sort out what they eat tells you something. If you feel there is a moral stand to make then  you are more principalled than me who only uses his taste buds to select food.

Good luck with trying to follow the vegan way, but it is not what we evolved to eat.

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You have and you're talking rubbish.

Here's a tip: When trolling at least try and give an idea that you know what you are going about rather than going on about some wank appeal to nature fallacy. Try harder next time brao.

[Tull924]

Hi I have no axe to grind on diet, but if you choose to exclude some major food groups that we are evolved to eat, there will be problems.

Vegan's exclude meat and dairy (and more, I know) from their diet

There have been non-meat eaters for centuries, just look at India and China who have only just started to increase meat consumption

There have been non-dairy consumers as long as there has been lactose intolerance

Are you suggesting that people who exclude gluten from their diet have all got it wrong as well and they should ensure they eat bread regardless of a gluten intolerance for example?

Good luck with trying to follow the vegan way, but it is not what we evolved to eat.

Unfortunately that is the common misconception that we are taught from an early age. I was 27 before I decided to look behind what had been told to me from an early age.

the fact that Vegans spend so much time researching and trying to sort out what they eat tells you something

Yes it tell's you that options for vegans are not as easy as the general "anything goes" population, hence the actual existence of this thread

For what it is worth (and it is really nobody business but mine) I have been vegetarian for about 17 years. I suffer from dandruff and athlete's foot, which afflicted me before the dietary change

lokah samastah sukhino bhavantu - May all the beings in all the worlds be happy and free

[Ben T]

So are you suggesting that vegetarians are just nuts anyway and the diet comes later?
BB

Well you know what they say, you are what you eat

[IJL]

I have no axe to grind on diet, but if you choose to exclude some major food groups that we are evolved to eat, there will be problems.

I'm not sure I would view evolution like that, we evolved to eat whatever was available in the immediate area, at certain times of year that would have amounted to very little.  In evolutionary terms agriculture is a bit of a new fangled idea and for most of out history we were hunter gatherers and had to live off whatever could be found in walking distance.  I'm not sure that it would be possible to be vegan/ vegetarian in many parts of the world under such circumstances.  Happily we have now progressed to the point that you can get almost any food stuff at any time of year.  Unhappily overconsumption is now one of the greatest threats to health. 

[Charlotte]

I'm not even a vegan (although I eat an almost exclusively plant based diet these days) but I know we can survive on pretty much anything.  A few months of no animal products whatsoever and paying attention to my macros and I'm in the best health I've been in *years*.  Weight down, BP down, cholesterol down - all to within recommended levels for a woman my age.

Eating a vegan diet might not be natural, but as long as you have a care to get your B12 and one or two other things, it's not going to do you any harm.  Might even end up being the best food choice you ever made.

[GrahamG]

I was vegan for over 10 years, but a very unhealthy one, all due to over-eating.

Audaxing started soon after I lost a shedload of weight on an extended cycle tour and frankly just killed my veganism dead with a severe case of 'I just can't be arsed anymore'. I remember it like yesterday, ~200km in to my first ever 300 (the elenith when it started near Kiddy) and I'd had veg soup and bread roll at a control, I did the thousand yard stare at the menu after soup didn't touch the sides and said 'apple pie and custard please'. I think I even had a second portion.

In all honesty, I think because I was a bit slow and inefficient in terms of my riding fuel, that would have exacerbated things. There are folks that can get around a 200k in 7 hours on little more than a coke and a pack of crisps, and many more slower, but efficient riders that can stash more than enough food in saddle bags to fill in gaps in inadequate control/24hr garage provision - there's plenty of folk carry the kitchen sink without even carrying food so the reality of a few extra kg of sarnies, home made energy bars and other bonk rations isn't that awful.

[Bianchi Boy]

I'm not even a vegan (although I eat an almost exclusively plant based diet these days) but I know we can survive on pretty much anything.  A few months of no animal products whatsoever and paying attention to my macros and I'm in the best health I've been in *years*.  Weight down, BP down, cholesterol down - all to within recommended levels for a woman my age.

Eating a vegan diet might not be natural, but as long as you have a care to get your B12 and one or two other things, it's not going to do you any harm.  Might even end up being the best food choice you ever made.

I think the main point to take from this is that there are things you want to eat and things you must eat. Some of the must is in animals, but the quantities are really quite small. A doctor friend of mine only eats 250g of animal flesh a week and of high quality, swears that he gets all the stuff you cannot get from plants.

As has been pointed out up thread we evolved to eat almost anything and we need lots of variety. There are lots of examples around the world of people who live a long time on plants, whale blubber, shell fish, milk ......... The real thing I take from this is do not get too hung up on what you eat, have lots of variety and FFS enjoy it 

[LMT]

I'm not even a vegan (although I eat an almost exclusively plant based diet these days) but I know we can survive on pretty much anything.  A few months of no animal products whatsoever and paying attention to my macros and I'm in the best health I've been in *years*.  Weight down, BP down, cholesterol down - all to within recommended levels for a woman my age.

Eating a vegan diet might not be natural, but as long as you have a care to get your B12 and one or two other things, it's not going to do you any harm.  Might even end up being the best food choice you ever made.

I think the main point to take from this is that there are things you want to eat and things you must eat. Some of the must is in animals, but the quantities are really quite small. A doctor friend of mine only eats 250g of animal flesh a week and of high quality, swears that he gets all the stuff you cannot get from plants.

As has been pointed out up thread we evolved to eat almost anything and we need lots of variety. There are lots of examples around the world of people who live a long time on plants, whale blubber, shell fish, milk ......... The real thing I take from this is do not get too hung up on what you eat, have lots of variety and FFS enjoy it 

Like what?

[Bianchi Boy]

I'm not even a vegan (although I eat an almost exclusively plant based diet these days) but I know we can survive on pretty much anything.  A few months of no animal products whatsoever and paying attention to my macros and I'm in the best health I've been in *years*.  Weight down, BP down, cholesterol down - all to within recommended levels for a woman my age.

Eating a vegan diet might not be natural, but as long as you have a care to get your B12 and one or two other things, it's not going to do you any harm.  Might even end up being the best food choice you ever made.

I think the main point to take from this is that there are things you want to eat and things you must eat. Some of the must is in animals, but the quantities are really quite small. A doctor friend of mine only eats 250g of animal flesh a week and of high quality, swears that he gets all the stuff you cannot get from plants.

As has been pointed out up thread we evolved to eat almost anything and we need lots of variety. There are lots of examples around the world of people who live a long time on plants, whale blubber, shell fish, milk ......... The real thing I take from this is do not get too hung up on what you eat, have lots of variety and FFS enjoy it 

Like what?

B12

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[PeeJay]

You don't have to kill and eat animals to get B12,  I just stick a tablet under my tongue every morning for mine.  B12 is also fortified in many breakfasts cereals etc
B12 is produced by bacteria and is therefore vegan, the only reason B12 is in animal products is because they eat grass directly from the earth, drink from streams etc.  I could get my B12 the same way, drinking from streams etc , or in this modern sanitised world could take a supplement or eat fortified foods.

So what are the "one or two other things?"

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[rabbit]

Audaxing as a vegan is easy in 2017!

I don't understand the issue here.

Firstly, do John Hamilton's events, because he is absolutely top notch for providing masses of vegan food. I was fatter when I finished the Mille Cymru than when I started   

Secondly - learn what you can get at all outlets that works well as a fall back - for me, peanuts, prawn cocktail crisps, various chocolate and biscuits are available at even the most basic of forecourts. Most back-of-beyond cafes can knock up baked beans on toast/spud/chips - and that's the worst case. Even in the depths of darkest Wales I normally find a good soya latte nowadays, and a cafe owner keen to help out on the eating front. If there is a supermarket of any type, co-op or an M&S then you are really sorted, loads of vegan options!

Some of my DIYs are so remote I don't actually see a shop or cafe anyway, so I carry enough with me. If you can't carry enough food for a 200 km then there is something seriously wrong somewhere. If you can't fit in flapjacks, veggie sausage rolls, banana, salad and hummus wrap and a bag of barbecue cashew nuts in a jersey, you need a bigger jersey!

Don't forget tho - it's a case of do what you can. So going 'oh, it's too hard, I can't avoid butter on my toast so I may as well stuff as much intensively reared meat into me as possible' makes no sense whatsoever. Saying 'oh, I'm struggling to avoid butter here so I'll eat this toast, but I'll do my best to find something at the next control', makes much more sense. No one is perfect, everyone draws the line where they chose to. I personally would just skip a control rather than eat meat or dairy - but then I'm vegan for ethical reasons. An audax is just a bike ride.....I wouldn't compromise my ethics over something so trivial. Others no doubt would disagree.

[vorsprung]

If you can't carry enough food for a 200 km then there is something seriously wrong somewhere.

I guess it is all just lack of planning.  It is easier to non vegan if you were hoping to rely on stuff you find out and about

[LMT]

I'm not even a vegan (although I eat an almost exclusively plant based diet these days) but I know we can survive on pretty much anything.  A few months of no animal products whatsoever and paying attention to my macros and I'm in the best health I've been in *years*.  Weight down, BP down, cholesterol down - all to within recommended levels for a woman my age.

Eating a vegan diet might not be natural, but as long as you have a care to get your B12 and one or two other things, it's not going to do you any harm.  Might even end up being the best food choice you ever made.

I think the main point to take from this is that there are things you want to eat and things you must eat. Some of the must is in animals, but the quantities are really quite small. A doctor friend of mine only eats 250g of animal flesh a week and of high quality, swears that he gets all the stuff you cannot get from plants.

As has been pointed out up thread we evolved to eat almost anything and we need lots of variety. There are lots of examples around the world of people who live a long time on plants, whale blubber, shell fish, milk ......... The real thing I take from this is do not get too hung up on what you eat, have lots of variety and FFS enjoy it 

Like what?

B12

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It pains me that someone could be this ignorant, yes you can get B12 from animals but as PeeJay mentions B12 you can get from other sources.

Certainly not a case of you must eat animal products or you become B12 deficient.

[Simon E]

I think the main point to take from this is that there are things you want to eat and things you must eat. Some of the must is in animals, but the quantities are really quite small.

This is so wide of the mark I'm struggling with the thought that, even with access to the wonders of the internet, you actually believe this rubbish.

Lots of people are vegetarian or vegan and live healthy, active lives. They don't wither away due to a lack of B12. 

Don't believe me? Look up Mike Cotty or listen to Rich Roll's podcast interview with him (an ultrarunner who is "powered by plants", as he describes it). Or world famous ultrarunner Scott Jurek.

There are other cyclists who are veggie or vegan; Robert Millar chose to eat a meat-free diet while racing as a professional. Former Year record holder Tommy Godwin and previous holder Walter Greaves were both strict vegetarians. Chris Bennett has been a vegetarian for 27 years and completed the 2013 Tour Divide and 2015 Transcontinental. There will be lots more. I personally know several active people who have chosen a vegan or vegetarian diet for one reason or another and feel better for it. One of them is a registered Dietitian. If anyone should know what she's doing...

Average life expectancy is greater for vegetarians and vegans than meat eaters. I suspect more people in the UK have low Vitamin D levels and there is evidence to suggest that many of us possibly have poor levels of other vitamins and minerals (but not due to a lack of meat).

I'm not saying you have to eat the same way, I have no axe to grind. It would just be helpful if you got your facts right.

[adam w]

Holiday Inn put on a nice vegan dish for me at the reunion just gone 

[hellymedic]

Holiday Inn put on a nice vegan dish for me at the reunion just gone 

I am not a vegan but thought my vegan tablemates had a poor/raw deal. I suppose expectations vary.

Nobody starved anyway...

[adam w]

actually you may be right, I good meal for me is 10 bananas so take my opinions with a pinch of salt 

[hellymedic]

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=99261.msg2102502#msg2102502

Suggests pretty poor catering.

I don't know if the Mushroom and Leak [sic] Stroganoff was vegan-friendly.