Author Topic: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot  (Read 4237 times)

Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« on: 15 March, 2018, 01:07:48 pm »
As someone who suffers from Hot Foot on longer rides (well actually they don't have to be that long, just longer than a couple of hours) I have tried a number of solutions to try and solve this:

1) Different shoes. I have been through a number of different shoes, some have been terrible (I'm looking at you Giro) Some have been ok but none have eliminated the issue.

2) More rearward cleat position. Doesn't seem to make a jot of difference.

3) Cleat wedges. As above, nope.

4) Better quality insoles. Maybe adds a bit of time on but ultimately still have Hot Foot on long ride.

The only thing I haven't tried is Custom Insoles. Has anyone who previously suffered from Hot Foot used Custom Insoles and it has eliminated the problem? And if so which brand?

Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #1 on: 15 March, 2018, 01:52:04 pm »
what pedal/cleat system/models are you using?

cheers

Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #2 on: 15 March, 2018, 02:07:35 pm »
I am currently using Speedplay Zero, but in the past I have used Shimano SPD-SL and Time Xpresso.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #3 on: 15 March, 2018, 02:31:12 pm »
I recently had some Specialized BG custom insoles made using their new Retul Match system. They're good, definitely make a noticeable difference to foot comfort, though I haven't done any really long rides with them yet by way of a proper test so the recommendation comes with that caveat.

If you have a Specialized store near you, it's worth investigating - the custom fitting service is free, all you have to pay for is the cost of the insoles themselves.

You can get your feet measured at the same time to make sure your shoes fit properly.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Samuel D

Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #4 on: 15 March, 2018, 02:55:27 pm »
Agree that Specialized insoles are good although I only have the non-custom €30 ones with the metatarsal button. Maybe their shoes are good too, but I haven’t been able to afford the ones I like the look of. The Body Geometry insoles postpone discomfort for me, presumably because they spread the bones in the foot, which leads me to:

Having been through a lot of shoes and pedals with similar problems, my impression is that width across the forefoot matters more than anything else. There needs to be a wide, flat floor there for your foot to splay unrestricted as it does when walking barefoot.

The best shoes I have found for this are those by Northwave. Shimanos are poor: even the wide-fit models are narrow across the ball and curve upward at the toe (inside) like a ski, which is an unnatural position for my foot to repeatedly exert force in. Shimano shoes have acres of room at the heel where it makes no difference one way or the other because the foot doesn’t move there.

For the most part, cycling shoes are terrible things: inflexible when feet should move, with artificial materials that don’t break in; too narrow at the front (for what earthly purpose, given that cycling exerts negligible sideways force on the foot unlike other sports?); too much faux ergonomic shaping that healthy feet don’t need; ventilation that no-one asked for; and too high around the ankle and up the back of the heel in search of unnecessary and unwanted support that irritates ankles and Achilles tendons.

Vivian Grisogono’s brilliant self-help book on sports injuries lists basically all the features of contemporary cycling shoes as causes of injury. No wonder so many cyclists have foot problems.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #5 on: 15 March, 2018, 03:02:07 pm »
HK goes to a sports podiatrist for custom insoles for her cycling shoes and a different set for her walking shoes. If you have serious foot problems, spend the time and money for a proper solution from an expert, rather than randomly try to bodge something.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #6 on: 15 March, 2018, 03:26:18 pm »
Agree that Specialized insoles are good although I only have the non-custom €30 ones with the metatarsal button. Maybe their shoes are good too, but I haven’t been able to afford the ones I like the look of. The Body Geometry insoles postpone discomfort for me, presumably because they spread the bones in the foot, which leads me to:

Having been through a lot of shoes and pedals with similar problems, my impression is that width across the forefoot matters more than anything else. There needs to be a wide, flat floor there for your foot to splay unrestricted as it does when walking barefoot.

I have used the Specialized standard insoles and my feeling towards them is meh but maybe their full costome ones are much better. With regards to shoe width I now use Lake Wide Fit which are about as wide as you can get and have the advantage of having a genuine leather upper. However whilst these do give me a bit of wriggle room they don't stop the numbness.

HK goes to a sports podiatrist for custom insoles for her cycling shoes and a different set for her walking shoes. If you have serious foot problems, spend the time and money for a proper solution from an expert, rather than randomly try to bodge something.
I had the feeling this might be the (albeit most expensive)solution, has this option completely stopped HK from having foot related issues?

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #7 on: 15 March, 2018, 03:33:55 pm »
It has meant that she can ride a very long way with little foot discomfort. I suspect there was enough nerve damage caused prior to getting custom orthotics that being pain-free is near-impossible. She swears blind that she also loses power when the orthotics need replacing, every 2-3 years.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #8 on: 15 March, 2018, 03:41:33 pm »
Thanks for your reply, do you mind me asking when she gets that done? And does anyone know anywhere in East Anglia who they could recommend for this kind of thing?

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #9 on: 15 March, 2018, 03:46:50 pm »
I have used the Specialized standard insoles and my feeling towards them is meh but maybe their full costome ones are much better.

Well, they're basically the same thing apart from the customisation process, which involves taking an impression of your foot then moulding the insoles around it. Maybe that's enough to make a difference? I don't really know, tbh.

Probably not as refined as custom orthotics from a podiatrist.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #10 on: 15 March, 2018, 04:06:37 pm »
HK is currently riding in Northern France but will be back on Monday. Perhaps a PM to her from you would be worthwhile, in case I forget to mention this thread to her.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Samuel D

Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #11 on: 15 March, 2018, 04:33:53 pm »
With regards to shoe width I now use Lake Wide Fit which are about as wide as you can get and have the advantage of having a genuine leather upper. However whilst these do give me a bit of wriggle room they don't stop the numbness.

And you’re sure your saddle is not too high or too wide? But now I’m guessing and perhaps you do need an expert.

Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #12 on: 15 March, 2018, 04:41:38 pm »
If you're feeling flush (i.e. they ain't cheap), then I'd recommend a visit to www.footfactor.com if you're contemplating custom orthotics.

A pair worked wonders for me for walking when I suffered from arthritis in my foot (a result of an old, serious injury) and I've since had a new pair made to balance both feet on the bike (and fix a hot foot issue) after the dodgy one was surgically reassembled. I managed with cleat wedges for a while, but the orthotics are in a different league altogether.

Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #13 on: 15 March, 2018, 05:13:12 pm »
If you're feeling flush (i.e. they ain't cheap), then I'd recommend a visit to www.footfactor.com if you're contemplating custom orthotics.

A pair worked wonders for me for walking when I suffered from arthritis in my foot (a result of an old, serious injury) and I've since had a new pair made to balance both feet on the bike (and fix a hot foot issue) after the dodgy one was surgically reassembled. I managed with cleat wedges for a while, but the orthotics are in a different league altogether.
Thank you for the recommendation. I know it's a vulgar subject but when you say feeling flush what type of ballpark amount are we talking about?

Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #14 on: 15 March, 2018, 05:33:01 pm »
@Samd, I think that too-wide forefoots can cause problems. I get numb toes, and from what I read, having too wide a forefoot allows the foot (especially in oldsters like me with dropped arches) to spread and that causes irritation to the nerves passion to the toes.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #15 on: 15 March, 2018, 06:13:06 pm »
For me, a few years ago when wearing Lidl SPD shoes, I suffered from burning stop-to-take-the-shoe-off hot foot, in one foot.  I fiddled with cleat position,  thin aluminium plate plus in-soles for a while, but the hot foot disappeared once I started wearing Shimano XC50N SPD shoes.
Cycle and recycle.   SS Wilson

Samuel D

Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #16 on: 15 March, 2018, 07:15:01 pm »
@Samd, I think that too-wide forefoots can cause problems. I get numb toes, and from what I read, having too wide a forefoot allows the foot (especially in oldsters like me with dropped arches) to spread and that causes irritation to the nerves passion to the toes.

So can you walk barefoot or in flip-flops in comfort?

Maybe some of my problems come from spending a lot of time barefoot as a child. I don’t think that in itself should be a problem, but shoes don’t seem to be designed for how my feet are shaped or work.

Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #17 on: 15 March, 2018, 08:03:24 pm »
BITD I rode sidi titaniums. They were built narrow but had very stretchy kangaroo hide uppers. To my surprise a friend's shoes turned out to be the same model, same size, but you have never seen shoes look more different; his feet were clear 3/4" wider than mine and the uppers stretched to suit.

You could have stretchy uppers in the days of clips and straps; as soon as clipless became popular the uppers became virtually inflexible by comparison. I have narrow feet and yet I have managed to buy cycling shoes that are too tight in the toe box. Many synthetic uppers are resistant to the usual tricks like using shoe trees to stretch them out larger.

BTW my chum's feet were so wide (he said) because he grew up in New Guinea, and didn't wear shoes until he was about nine years old or something.

cheers



Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #18 on: 16 March, 2018, 08:04:38 am »
Thank you for the recommendation. I know it's a vulgar subject but when you say feeling flush what type of ballpark amount are we talking about?

I think mine were around £330 – the 'sporting' type are a little pricier than the usual ones (different materials, I think), but you get a discount on a second paid you buy them at the same time (I didn't opt for this).

Mine are worn daily for commuting and audaxing. After 12 months or so, they look pretty much as good as new, despite being soaked a few times (though there's nothing water can really damage). The pair I had in normal shoes did eventually wear out, but cycling is much easier on the soles than walking.

Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #19 on: 16 March, 2018, 11:39:25 am »
My wife and I use Cyclefit Sidas insoles but she has been to a podiatrist recently for running shoe insoles and general shoe insoles.
.Depends what you are trying to do and what your budget is. Carbon Fibre is now being used as (supposedly) it lasts longer. Cyclefit use a chap called Mick Habgood but he isn't cheap.

http://www.pod-biomechanics.com/index.php/mick_habgood_biomechanical_podiatry_clinics_london/

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #20 on: 16 March, 2018, 12:03:15 pm »
HK's ones are a few hundred (can't remember how much offhand), replaced every few years.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #21 on: 16 March, 2018, 12:38:18 pm »
I can see that custom orthotics are going to be pricey. If however they are going to prevent or at the very least greatly reduce the issue then it would be a worthwhile investment (in reality I have probably spent more trying out different shoes over the years). I guess it's now a case of trying to find someone local who has recommendations.
My wife and I use Cyclefit Sidas insoles.
How do you find the Sidas insoles? I know that they are typically less than £100 for the custom ones which is obviously a better price. Did you suffer with foot problems prior to getting them? Have they cleared this up?

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #22 on: 16 March, 2018, 12:44:32 pm »
Some cheap insoles (made by Carnac?) that were knocking around Dad's spare room fixed my hotfoot! I think I got lucky there.

(I tried everything else; some things helped a lot, but 300km+ rides with hot conditions would always bring it on. Incidentally using wider cleats - such as SPD-SL - made ZERO difference. I did a proper A/B test with 2 different shoes-n-pedals.)

I would suggest trying something like Superfeet ; you can try them out in a shop, and there's a no-quibble moneyback deal. they come in different shapes (arch height, stiffness etc). Around £30 ? If that helps, but not a total solution, go custom.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #23 on: 16 March, 2018, 02:28:01 pm »
I had hammer toes treated as a child and not particularly well so have always tended to have problems with my feet to some extent.

When I started cycling seriously I bought specialised shoes which were comfortable for up to about 150 km. I then had a bike fit and custom insoles from Adrian Timmis which got me up to about 400 km before problems. However anything over that and I would be in agony and would have to stop or even pull out.

I have therefore spent quite a lot of time looking at my own feet, theories of foot architecture et cetera. The concept of a transverse arch is I think pure baloney. There may be a transverse arch in many people but this is probably due to shoe usage as much as to internal architecture. I certainly have a very prominent second metatarsal head on my planter surface to the extent that it probably takes the majority of the pressure in a standard insole. It seems to be almost impossible to mould and insole with a depression where the second metatarsal head is so that pressure is evened out over the whole of the forefoot. I have even gone to the extent of trialling insoles from a specialist gait analysis laboratory but they were made so thick that I could not get my foot in the shoe.

I have gone back to adapting my own insoles with a thin layer of extra material to increase the load on the forefoot except the second metatarsal head and with these I can do 600 km without real problems.

My advice would be to get a pair of thin SIDAS custom-made insoles and then to try and work out where you take pressure through the insole and adjust appropriately for yourself. I will try and post some pictures when I get home.

Re: Custom Cycling insoles and Hot Foot
« Reply #24 on: 16 March, 2018, 03:05:38 pm »
I'd be quite happy to get 200-300 without problems so Sidas are still looking like an option. Adrian is a bit far for me but I believe that there may be companies who do the Sidas insoles closer to home. Worth thinking about, thanks.