Author Topic: Spoke Length with no rim or hub info  (Read 1210 times)

Spoke Length with no rim or hub info
« on: 02 October, 2018, 10:00:28 am »
How do you calculate if you can't find any rim or hub info from the available online spoke calculators? I've a set of Shimano front and rear hubs that i want to build up with rims (not decided which yet) Is the length measured from the listed ERD of the rim? Hub sizes need to be measured manually?
Mind of a cyclist, body of a dart player.

Re: Spoke Length with no rim or hub info
« Reply #1 on: 02 October, 2018, 10:18:48 am »
Yes, if your hub and/or rim isn't listed, you have to measure it yourself.
Most calculators (eg https://leonard.io/edd/ ) allow your own numbers to be used.

Rims are best measured using two spokes with correctly set nipples in opposite holes, measuring the gap and adding the spoke lengths.
Hubs probably means getting a caliper gauge if you don't have one (digital and dial versions also available at similar prices).

Rim ERDs are often listed in the manufacturers specification, but you do have to be a bit careful - eg Mavic list the nipple seat diameter rather than the diameter of the spoke end circle, which comes up about 3 mm smaller.

Re: Spoke Length with no rim or hub info
« Reply #2 on: 02 October, 2018, 10:32:11 am »
Also, don't trust the data in the spoke calculator listed (and probably others). I've several hubs that measure differently to the data included.

Re: Spoke Length with no rim or hub info
« Reply #3 on: 02 October, 2018, 10:47:41 am »
Thanks all. So a bit of a task to work out rim size then? Was looking at a DT Swiss R460 rim but it's listed as a 700c/29in on one site an 700c/28in on another  ???
Mind of a cyclist, body of a dart player.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Spoke Length with no rim or hub info
« Reply #4 on: 02 October, 2018, 11:05:53 am »
It is the same thing. Stupid folk (mostly USAians) call a 700C a 29" rim, Europeans call them 28" rims.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Spoke Length with no rim or hub info
« Reply #5 on: 02 October, 2018, 11:07:07 am »
Some measurements are more critical than others.  Assuming you're using crossed spoking, the effective hub diameter has very little effect on the outcome.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Spoke Length with no rim or hub info
« Reply #6 on: 02 October, 2018, 11:08:40 am »
worth mentioning that whilst rim measurements are critical (errors in them always generate errors in spoke length) small errors in hub measurements are not so critical, especially if you are building with a tangent or near-tangent spoking pattern.

So, taking a 36x3 622 wheel  as a starting point, the following all cause an error of 1.0mm  in the spoke length;

- an error of 2mm in ERD
- an error of 10mm in the spacing of the flanges from the wheel centreline
- an error of ~4.5mm in the flange diameter

[By contrast if the wheel is built radially then the flange diameter is just as sensitive as the rim diameter, and a full tangent build (eg 32x4) builds with the same length spokes almost regardless of the hub flange diameter.]

Anyway for a typical x3 build onto a 32  or 36h hub you can measure the hub in a fairly slapdash fashion and it really won't make that much difference to the end result. By contrast quite a small error in ERD will always result in a spoke length error.

However  I am in the habit of measuring everything as well as I can do despite this; sod's law says that all the errors will add up in one direction (rather than cancel out) and then you will then round the spoke length in the wrong direction, giving a poor end result.  However if you measure everything carefully, you can normally get the spoke ends to finish mid-slot like they should do.

BTW if you find an error in the database for any online spoke calculator, please report it to the admin of the site; the databases are only as good as the (user-generated) data that is entered into them.

cheers

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Spoke Length with no rim or hub info
« Reply #7 on: 02 October, 2018, 12:20:28 pm »
The number of crosses affects it a lot, so do check the right box is ticked in the spoke calculator.  They usually default to x3.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Re: Spoke Length with no rim or hub info
« Reply #8 on: 02 October, 2018, 01:21:32 pm »
Wish i hadn't asked now  ??? But i think I've narrowed it down to the DT Swiss R460 rim with DT Swiss Competition 292mm spokes and brass nipples (12mm) for a x3 build.
Mind of a cyclist, body of a dart player.

Re: Spoke Length with no rim or hub info
« Reply #9 on: 02 October, 2018, 01:26:45 pm »
Wish i hadn't asked now  ??? But i think I've narrowed it down to the DT Swiss R460 rim with DT Swiss Competition 292mm spokes and brass nipples (12mm) for a x3 build.

I take it you mean  for a 32H wheel? 

Using 596mm ERD, 32x3 build, on a typical shimano SF hubset, I make it that 292mm will be pretty much flush with the nipple tops in a front wheel.  In a rear wheel I think you would be better off with 290mm on the drive side.

BTW the DT website has a spoke length calculator on it somewhere.

cheers

Re: Spoke Length with no rim or hub info
« Reply #10 on: 02 October, 2018, 01:29:43 pm »
Wish i hadn't asked now  ??? But i think I've narrowed it down to the DT Swiss R460 rim with DT Swiss Competition 292mm spokes and brass nipples (12mm) for a x3 build.

I take it you mean  for a 32H wheel? 

Using 596mm ERD, 32x3 build, on a typical shimano SF hubset, I make it that 292mm will be pretty much flush with the nipple tops in a front wheel.  In a rear wheel I think you would be better off with 290mm on the drive side.

BTW the DT website has a spoke length calculator on it somewhere.

cheers

Yes Front 32h rim.
Mind of a cyclist, body of a dart player.