Author Topic: Interesting or unusual planes?  (Read 129350 times)

Torslanda

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1375 on: November 27, 2017, 09:34:03 am »
Way back in 89/90, when I was a suit-wearing, precocious twat, I was outside an hotel at Manchester airport, having a lunchtime fag (some Saturday bullshit sales conference) when there was a mighty roar from the Western end of the runway.

An Air France Concorde appeared, the pilot seemed to be holding the aircraft on a very flat trajectory - most aircraft departing Manchester climb steeply - maybe he was an ex-Mirage pilot. As he passed close to the hotel car park he turned slighty South and I saw the engine were at full power with the burners on. At that moment every car alarm in the car park went off. Fabulous...  ;D
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Steph

  • Fast. Fast and bulbous. But fluffy.
Mae angen arnaf i byw, a fe fydda'i

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1377 on: December 06, 2017, 12:57:01 pm »
Impressive! But why does a passenger jet need to be able to do anything like that?
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1378 on: December 06, 2017, 01:06:31 pm »
It doesnt. But its empty of passengers and cargo and probably fairly low on fuel as well so plenty of power to spare to show off.
Tex Johnson famously barrel rolled the original Boing 707 when he displayed it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_khhzuFlE

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

spesh

  • Keep calm and - Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1379 on: December 06, 2017, 01:22:34 pm »
Air shows are for the most part trade events, where manufacturers are showing off their wares to business and government representatives. Everybody knows that an airliner's handling at maximum take-off weight, full of passengers, luggage and fuel, isn't going to be anywhere near as spirited, but the test pilot is going to put on a show to attract the interest of potential buyers.

It's the same for the stunts that some fighter jets are put through where they appear to defy the laws of physics - it looks good, but try bleeding energy off like that in a real dogfight, and you are quite likely to end up a sitting duck.
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." ~ Will Rogers

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1380 on: December 06, 2017, 01:34:18 pm »
It's the same for the stunts that some fighter jets are put through where they appear to defy the laws of physics - it looks good, but try bleeding energy off like that in a real dogfight, and you are quite likely to end up a sitting duck.

Energy is good in a dogfight generally but I do seem to remember Harriers having a tactic of using vectored thrist to suddenly slow down causing a jet on their tale to overshoot and suddenly find itself with the Harrier getting a missile lock.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1381 on: December 06, 2017, 01:40:40 pm »
It doesnt. But its empty of passengers and cargo and probably fairly low on fuel as well so plenty of power to spare to show off.
Tex Johnson famously barrel rolled the original Boing 707 when he displayed it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_khhzuFlE

Barrel rolls if done correctly do not impart G forces so there are no airframe strength issues.  Or have I got that wrong?

spesh

  • Keep calm and - Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1382 on: December 06, 2017, 02:01:46 pm »
It doesnt. But its empty of passengers and cargo and probably fairly low on fuel as well so plenty of power to spare to show off.
Tex Johnson famously barrel rolled the original Boing 707 when he displayed it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_khhzuFlE

Barrel rolls if done correctly do not impart G forces so there are no airframe strength issues.  Or have I got that wrong?

ITYM "Barrel rolls if done correctly do not impart excessive G forces beyond the operating limits..."

And said limits will be well inside the point at which the airframe and wings fail in static/dynamic load tests. Added to which, modern fly-by-wire flight control systems will have modes whereby the pilot simply cannot over-stress the aircraft (though there have been unintended consequences, usually involving Airbus products, where the aircrew have got themselves in a situation where the computers wouldn't let them take action which could have saved the aircraft, but I digress).
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." ~ Will Rogers

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1383 on: December 06, 2017, 02:14:49 pm »
It's the same for the stunts that some fighter jets are put through where they appear to defy the laws of physics - it looks good, but try bleeding energy off like that in a real dogfight, and you are quite likely to end up a sitting duck.

Energy is good in a dogfight generally but I do seem to remember Harriers having a tactic of using vectored thrist to suddenly slow down causing a jet on their tale to overshoot and suddenly find itself with the Harrier getting a missile lock.

Swordfish pilots used to say that land based fighters had problems trying to shoot them down because they couldn't fly slowly enough.
“There is no point in using the word 'impossible' to describe something that has clearly happened.”
― Douglas Adams

spesh

  • Keep calm and - Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1384 on: December 06, 2017, 02:42:56 pm »
It's the same for the stunts that some fighter jets are put through where they appear to defy the laws of physics - it looks good, but try bleeding energy off like that in a real dogfight, and you are quite likely to end up a sitting duck.

Energy is good in a dogfight generally but I do seem to remember Harriers having a tactic of using vectored thrist to suddenly slow down causing a jet on their tale to overshoot and suddenly find itself with the Harrier getting a missile lock.

The USMC developed that tactic for their AV-8A Harriers, but it wasn't used by our pilots in the Falklands War.

Quote from: Lt. Cmdr David Morgan DSC
"No-one used viffing in combat - it's very much a last-ditch manoeuvre. It can be useful if the guy behind hasn't seen it before and doesn't know what you're going to do. You can decelerate from 450 knots down to 150 in about three or four seconds, and that is enough to fly people out in front - however, if he sees it coming, all he has to do is go vertical and just sit around on top of you. You end up with no energy at all and he's got all the time in the world to take you out."

http://www.airsceneuk.org.uk/oldstuff/2007/437harrier/harrier.htm
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." ~ Will Rogers

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1385 on: December 07, 2017, 12:56:58 am »

ITYM "Barrel rolls if done correctly do not impart excessive G forces beyond the operating limits..."

If the pilot does it properly the forces are generally directed towards the aircraft floor.

https://youtu.be/EmkknS203Mo
What's this bottom line for anyway?

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1386 on: December 07, 2017, 07:46:17 am »
My lovely Chemistry teacher* explained that he far preferred a barrel roll to a regular roll because "it keeps all the nuts and bolts that the ground crew have left on the deck bouncing into my face when I was upside down".

*This was the only time anyone ever heard him mention anything about aeroplanes. He was known as Wiggy because he had a very obvious wig. He cycled to school on a Dutch style bike and one pupil managed to relieve of his wig one morning as he cycled past. Disgraceful treatment. It turned out that he had been a Spitfire pilot and wore a wig because he had crashed and burned. 
Rust never sleeps

Torslanda

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1387 on: December 10, 2017, 02:05:06 am »
It doesnt. But its empty of passengers and cargo and probably fairly low on fuel as well so plenty of power to spare to show off.
Tex Johnson famously barrel rolled the original Boing 707 when he displayed it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_khhzuFlE

Barrel rolls if done correctly do not impart G forces so there are no airframe strength issues.  Or have I got that wrong?

I've seen an interview with Tex Johnson where he said that Boeing execs wanted to haul him over the coals for it but he countered stating the load on the airframe never exceeded 1g.

So, yes . . .
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

TimC

  • Bike pilot
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1388 on: December 15, 2017, 07:35:58 am »
Impressive! But why does a passenger jet need to be able to do anything like that?

Without that power, you’d be pretty disappointed in its inability to get you and 180 other punters to 35000’ on your way to Ibiza. Without the ability to withstand significant manoeuvre loads, you’d also be rather unhappy at its propensity to fall apart in significant turbulence. Anyway, it’s fun.

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1389 on: December 15, 2017, 11:35:27 pm »
Welcome back TimC. Great to see you here.
Rust never sleeps

Torslanda

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1390 on: December 19, 2017, 12:38:42 am »
Impressive! But why does a passenger jet need to be able to do anything like that?

Without that power, you’d be pretty disappointed in its inability to get you and 180 other punters to 35000’ on your way to Ibiza. Without the ability to withstand significant manoeuvre loads, you’d also be rather unhappy at its propensity to fall apart in significant turbulence. Anyway, it’s fun.

I think he's been watching 'Binliner' videos . . .
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

TimC

  • Bike pilot
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1391 on: December 19, 2017, 02:11:11 am »
Impressive! But why does a passenger jet need to be able to do anything like that?

Without that power, you’d be pretty disappointed in its inability to get you and 180 other punters to 35000’ on your way to Ibiza. Without the ability to withstand significant manoeuvre loads, you’d also be rather unhappy at its propensity to fall apart in significant turbulence. Anyway, it’s fun.

I think he's been watching 'Binliner' videos . . .

Never knowingly!

Welcome back TimC. Great to see you here.

Thanks! I’m not sure that I was away, really, but I haven’t felt the need to contribute much for a while. Whether that changes or not depends, really.  ie I don’t know!

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1392 on: January 11, 2018, 09:04:10 am »
Not quite in the spirit of this thread but interesting enough to share!  A paper model with working undercarriage, flaps, reverse thrusters etc.  Pretty impressive stuff.

https://www.wired.com/video/the-ultimate-paper-airplane

Steph

  • Fast. Fast and bulbous. But fluffy.
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1393 on: January 11, 2018, 11:06:57 am »
Not quite in the spirit of this thread but interesting enough to share!  A paper model with working undercarriage, flaps, reverse thrusters etc.  Pretty impressive stuff.

https://www.wired.com/video/the-ultimate-paper-airplane
Wow!
Mae angen arnaf i byw, a fe fydda'i

Pingu

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1394 on: January 11, 2018, 08:20:55 pm »
 :o :thumbsup:

Jaded

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1395 on: January 11, 2018, 10:21:13 pm »
Yeah, but the seats don't recline....
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

spesh

  • Keep calm and - Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1396 on: January 11, 2018, 10:51:46 pm »
Not quite in the spirit of this thread but interesting enough to share!  A paper model with working undercarriage, flaps, reverse thrusters etc.  Pretty impressive stuff.

https://www.wired.com/video/the-ultimate-paper-airplane

 :o 8)

I vaguely recall reading about this a few years ago* - I'd forgotten about the working parts!


* After searching, it turns out to have been back in 2014: https://io9.gizmodo.com/this-meticulously-crafted-777-replica-is-made-of-manila-1504096998
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." ~ Will Rogers

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1397 on: March 01, 2018, 03:56:19 pm »
No photos, I am afraid, but I spied a couple of tiny planes at Halfpenny Green Airfield the other day, and retrospectively identified them as a pair of Taylor Titches.

I only saw the green one in the air.  Looked like lots of fun.

In recent visits, I've also seen an AH-64 Apache, an Agusta A109, many many Pipers, including Arrows, Warriors, Cherokee, Tomahawk.  And a number of autogyros - both Calidus and Cavalon.  Very cool.
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Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1398 on: March 05, 2018, 10:27:02 am »
Ever since seeing 'You Only Live Twice' as a sprog I've wanted an autogyro
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1399 on: March 05, 2018, 10:32:53 am »
There is a company based at Bobbington.  They have at least three, and offer tuition and experience flights.

Can't say I was taken with the film, but Ken Wallis was a hero.
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