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Author Topic: TdeF 2017  (Read 95909 times)

Samuel D

Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #100 on: 04 July, 2017, 06:28:11 pm »
Quote from: woollypigs on 04 July, 2017, 06:10:11 pm
Todays winner, nearly takes out someone else when he zigzags around.

Nacer Bouhanni.
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woollypigs

  • Mr Peli
    • woollypigs
Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #101 on: 04 July, 2017, 06:31:19 pm »
Cav broken shoulder .... :(
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Current mood: AARRRGGGGHHHHH !!! #bollockstobrexit

woollypigs

  • Mr Peli
    • woollypigs
Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #102 on: 04 July, 2017, 06:45:40 pm »
https://u.nya.is/jdkpym.mp4

Video of first crash that Sagan was near. To me it looks like someone drifted over into him but he stayed up as he is stronger and better at handling his bike.
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Current mood: AARRRGGGGHHHHH !!! #bollockstobrexit

mrcharly-YHT

Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #103 on: 04 July, 2017, 06:50:17 pm »
The slowmo and the overhead shot actually make it look really clear and damning. I take back what I said before. In the overhead shot Sagan's elbow looks to make contact with Cav's jaw and it is a really deliberate shove, if not a blow.
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<i>Marmite slave</i>

Veloman

Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #104 on: 04 July, 2017, 06:55:11 pm »
Check tweet from Roger Hammond (5.29pm) from this article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2017/07/04/tour-de-france-2017-stage-four-live-race-updates-mark-cavendish/

Clearly shows that Sagan had no need whatsoever to be where he was as there was oceans of space top his left.  Almost looks like he was deliberately barging Cav.  Lots of former pros with not very complimentary words for Sagan and Greipel says Sagan is no longer his friend and he was in a very good position to witness what happened as he looked across realising he was out of contention for the win.

Can't see much sympathy for Sagan within the peleton, although no doubt they will not give true feeling on TV.

Also, if rumours are true that Cav is out, and even his team were speaking in those terms during interviews, then pretty damming for 'Wonder Boy' who has clearly got too big for his boots.  And taking out a rider like that who was possibly able to become the winner of most stages in the TdF is something fellow pros will not support.  Accidents are one thing, Sagan's actions are another.

I wonder how folk in UK would react if he visited there shores on a bike?
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Veloman

Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #105 on: 04 July, 2017, 06:58:35 pm »
Quote from: mrcharly-YHT on 04 July, 2017, 06:50:17 pm
The slowmo and the overhead shot actually make it look really clear and damning. I take back what I said before. In the overhead shot Sagan's elbow looks to make contact with Cav's jaw and it is a really deliberate shove, if not a blow.

Deliberate violent action that could be considered as GBH considering the speed they were travelling and the knowledge that such action would undoubtedly result in bodily harm.

Totally different to the circumstances of the Renshaw head butt.

No doubt Sagan is having quite a lot of reflecting right now.
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TigaSefi

TdeF 2017
« Reply #106 on: 04 July, 2017, 07:05:21 pm »
I've seen the evident and he definitely need to be DQ'd. Outrageous behaviour.
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Hot Flatus

Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #107 on: 04 July, 2017, 07:13:18 pm »
He wasn't trying to fling him into the barriers, he was trying to impede him. End result was flinging him into the barriers. Correct decision, nevertheless.
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LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #108 on: 04 July, 2017, 07:14:40 pm »
Cavendish was an idiot to expect Sagan to just move over and give him enough room to get past along the barriers.
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Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

mzjo

Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #109 on: 04 July, 2017, 07:17:59 pm »
I have just seen a flash on "Les Rois de la Pédale" that Sagan has been chucked out of the Tour ("exclu", which means the same thing). The commentators don't seem to have taken note yet (and now Mme Stone wants to watch snooker so that's all I will know).

20H19 It's on Euronews now as well so must be authentic.
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Veloman

Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #110 on: 04 July, 2017, 07:23:00 pm »
Quote from: woollypigs on 04 July, 2017, 06:45:40 pm
https://u.nya.is/jdkpym.mp4

Video of first crash that Sagan was near. To me it looks like someone drifted over into him but he stayed up as he is stronger and better at handling his bike.

Incident at around 11s and Sagan appears to be going through 2 riders. Six of one and half a dozen of others? Or going for a gap that wasn't there?

Stage winner was almost taken out in that incident.
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Veloman

Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #111 on: 04 July, 2017, 07:25:38 pm »
Quote from: LittleWheelsandBig on 04 July, 2017, 07:14:40 pm
Cavendish was an idiot to expect Sagan to just move over and give him enough room to get past along the barriers.

perhaps he was not expecting to be barged into the barrier and elbowed by a rider that was not actually on the sprint line as clearly shown by the Roger Hammond tweet in this article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2017/07/04/tour-de-france-2017-stage-four-live-race-updates-mark-cavendish/

I think the evidence is fairly conclusive and the correct decision was made.
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Veloman

Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #112 on: 04 July, 2017, 07:29:21 pm »
Quote from: Flatus on 04 July, 2017, 07:13:18 pm
He wasn't trying to fling him into the barriers, he was trying to impede him. End result was flinging him into the barriers. Correct decision, nevertheless.

Correct decision indeed and he deliberately impeded him so close to the barrier that it constituted seriously endangering another rider.  All rather silly, unnecessary and totally unprofessional.
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LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #113 on: 04 July, 2017, 07:34:48 pm »
Perhaps they should put a lot of parallel lines down the finish straight and DQ everybody who crosses a line? Going from behind for a gap that doesn't exist is always going to put you into the barriers.
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Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Veloman

Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #114 on: 04 July, 2017, 07:43:51 pm »
Quote from: LittleWheelsandBig on 04 July, 2017, 07:34:48 pm
Perhaps they should put a lot of parallel lines down the finish straight and DQ everybody who crosses a line? Going from behind for a gap that doesn't exist is always going to put you into the barriers.

Might I suggest you contact those who made the decision to DQ Sagan as I think they disagree with your initial logic as Cav was simply following AD's wheel when Sagan barged and elbowed him so he could have the wheel of AD.  As much as I respect your knowledge and enjoy the company on a ride, I'm afraid we will have to beg to differ on this one and it would appear those making the decision to DQ also beg to differ.
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LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #115 on: 04 July, 2017, 07:45:59 pm »
Such is life. After all, the commissaires have never been known to make the wrong decision.

In Sagan's position, I'd have done the same thing. Coming up the barriers is never risk-free.
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Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

andyoxon

Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #116 on: 04 July, 2017, 07:49:18 pm »
On 5Live they're saying it's a harsh decision, Sagan was probably trying to 'balance' himself against the 'feel' of the rider to his side (Cav).  Also did the elbow even make contact...
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Cycle and recycle.   SS Wilson

TigaSefi

Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #117 on: 04 July, 2017, 07:49:39 pm »
Cav did nothing wrong. Just seen it again. Following Demare line was entirely correct.
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Samuel D

Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #118 on: 04 July, 2017, 07:56:57 pm »
I think a few things happened here, starting with Cavendish running into Sagan and lunging at him to make room where there was never going to be much room. Sagan could have obligingly moved over to let him past, but why should he? It’s a race. Then Sagan’s elbow gets hooked over Cavendish’s bars. By this point, Cavendish is falling into the barriers, dragging Sagan’s elbow out (making it look like Sagan is elbowing him).

Meanwhile, Démare swerves in front of Bouhanni, impeding the latter. Not much comment about that, I notice.
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TigaSefi

Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #119 on: 04 July, 2017, 07:59:08 pm »
Quote from: Samuel D on 04 July, 2017, 07:56:57 pm
Meanwhile, Démare swerves in front of Bouhanni, impeding the latter. Not much comment about that, I notice.
.

You're Chris Boardman and I claim my £5. Cavendish looks distraught :(
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Samuel D

Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #120 on: 04 July, 2017, 07:59:58 pm »
What did Boardman say? I only get French commentary over here.
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Samuel D

Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #121 on: 04 July, 2017, 08:01:21 pm »
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Asterix, the former Gaul.

Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #122 on: 04 July, 2017, 08:02:31 pm »


That's big elbow!  Right decision IMO.
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Move Faster and Bake Things

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #123 on: 04 July, 2017, 08:05:25 pm »
Cav's clearly on Demare's wheel, Sagan's move would be legitimate if he had left Cav a space to go. He didn't, his move was the dangerous one. Demare was very lucky to get away with that switch through the pack as well.
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"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Chris S

Re: TdeF 2017
« Reply #124 on: 04 July, 2017, 08:10:06 pm »
Well, that's a shame. It's less of a spectacle than it was, without those two in it.
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