light 35x622 road tyres

[mzjo]

I am thinking of putting the Dino back on the road. The only place I can see of improving performance (for those who don't know it this is a 17kg lwb recumbent) is the rear wheel. To this end I have been looking at slightly larger rear tyres (about 32 section) that are still reasonably light, as close to 300g as possible. The only real candidates that I have found so far are GP5000 and Panaracer Gravelking (which fall in my budget of 35-40€) Other tyres seem to be too heavy and/or too expensive. The Gravelking would appear to be the only one under 300g.

I am not sure what the largest section is that will fit under the brake/guard on this machine. Previously I have used it with a 28, a 32 should go (might have to change/lose the guard) but I would have doubts about 35. I have an old 37 section Duroc off a hybrid here that I can use to check clearance before buying (32 Gravelkings are not currently in stock at my preferred supplier).

Are there any other suggestions for tyres in this size? Use is just leisure riding on the road but it would be nice to have something that rolls better and all the weight is on the back wheel. That way I might be inspired to use it a bit more often.

[quixoticgeek]

I'm running 32mm GP5000's on my bike, and I really love them.

I have run Schwalbe G-one all round, in 40mm when I was having gravelly type thoughts. I was rather impressed by them too, they feel much better than the GP Four seasons I run in the winter. I have the non tubeless version with tubes in.

J

[mcshroom]

I can't think of any folding bead road tyres in 35mm, and the wire ones will probably be too heavy for your spec. Going smaller I have a couple suggestions: -

I've got a set of 32mm Bontrager R3 Hard-Case Lites. Full slick, and a manufacturer claimed weight of 290g. I used them on my touring bike for audaxing and a C2C last year, and got a little annoyed with a spate of rear wheel punctures. However I then used them for a weeks tour from Carlisle to Thurso last November without a single problem.

They cut up a bit easily for my liking, and the raceguard isn't as strong as other tyre puncture protection I've used (on heavier tyres like Marathons). They do grip well and they felt so much livelier than the Marathons they replaced I was very surprised. All in all I like them, and as soon as I've finished playing with gravel tyres on my Genesis CX bike they will be going on there. Road.cc reviewed them here - https://road.cc/content/review/226395-bontrager-r3-hard-case-lite-700x32c-clincher-road-tyre

Otherwise, and a bit cheaper there's the Zaffiro Pro which also comes as a folding 32mm. I've got a pair of these in 25mm, and they seem bomb proof. Not the fastest rolling but not bad. Much better than the wired normal Zaffiro. they are 365g in 32 mm width apparently.

 

[Brucey]

IMHO you may as well buy about the fastest tyre you can find, because if you don't, you will probably be left wondering how much performance you left on the table.  So I'd agree with the idea of getting a GP5000 and seeing how it goes with that on.  If you don't like it I'm sure you will be able to flog it on for a small loss easily enough.

A cheaper option might be to get one of the Jack Brown tyres from PX; they seem pretty lively to me; good for the money anyway.

cheers

[mattc]

Does the (world's best tyre in the universe ever) GP5000 come in non-tubeless-ready form? I was under the impression that if you're running tubes, a tubeless tyre is a compromise*  - happy to be corrected!


*and in this case, a very expensive one - I'd rather stick to my 4KIIs!

[JonBuoy]

Yes - they are available in either tubeless or 'normal' flavour.

[Zed43]

I don't understand the obsession with tyre weight (in your case, in my perception). 17kg bike, 70kg rider (on average), 5kg or gear/food/water (on average), 100 gram is not going to make a difference on that. Btw I've yet to find a convincing argument why "rotational" weight would be different from "regular" weight once you're in motion.

Reducing rolling resistance may be worthwhile, though I don't know how much of an improvement to expect when replacing a 28mm GP4000 (which measured 32mm on my rims) with a 35mm Compass Jon Bon Pass (35mm true size). I think there's some, and some added comfort (but maybe your 'bent has suspension anyway?)

Regarding cost: I hear ya; a few years back I scoffed at the idea of spending more than 20 euros on a part that wears out. But in the case of tyres I've come 180 degrees and now pay for those expensive Compass Extra Light tyres. The JBP lasted 7000km on the rear with me (60kg rider though). Besides, in your case you only need one expensive tyre

[Brucey]

IMHO tyre weight is often a proxy for 'performance'.  Light tyres always make a bike feel nicer even if they are not faster per se. Granted I think that effect is liable to be relatively slight in this case (maybe I'm not properly attuned to it but tyre weight alone doesn't contribute enormously to my 'feel' of a recumbent ).  But there's not many heavy tyres that have genuinely low rolling resistance. Also reducing tyre weight affects the way the bike rides the bumps; a bit like how reducing the unsprung weight in a suspension system is almost invariably good for comfort.

So has anyone compared Compass Stampede Pass with Jack Brown 'Green' and  Bon Jon Pass directly?  The Jack Brown 'Green' tyre kind of sits between them in terms of size and claimed weight; maybe a touch heavier built? All made by Panaracer of course.

cheers

[quixoticgeek]

Does the (world's best tyre in the universe ever) GP5000 come in non-tubeless-ready form? I was under the impression that if you're running tubes, a tubeless tyre is a compromise*  - happy to be corrected!


*and in this case, a very expensive one - I'd rather stick to my 4KIIs!

They come in both Tubeless, and tubed flavours. They also come upto 622x32 sizes.

Having run both GP4k and GP5k (infact currently one on the front, one on the back respectively), I'm preferring the 5k. Not from a faster point of view, but they are just easier to get on and off, and they look nicer. They aren't the cheapest, but noone seems to sell them at RRP anyway.

J

[quixoticgeek]

I don't understand the obsession with tyre weight (in your case, in my perception). 17kg bike, 70kg rider (on average), 5kg or gear/food/water (on average), 100 gram is not going to make a difference on that. Btw I've yet to find a convincing argument why "rotational" weight would be different from "regular" weight once you're in motion.

Isn't it about how fast you can spin the wheel up to speed? It's the unsprung weight thing with suspension...

Reducing rolling resistance may be worthwhile, though I don't know how much of an improvement to expect when replacing a 28mm GP4000 (which measured 32mm on my rims) with a 35mm Compass Jon Bon Pass (35mm true size). I think there's some, and some added comfort (but maybe your 'bent has suspension anyway?)

At that point you're in the realm of diminishing returns. Swapping from my winter tyre (GP 4 seasons), to my summer tyre (GP5k), is a saving of about 14w in total (based on bike rolling resistance site). Given my power output, esp after a couple of days of riding isn't much over 100w, that 14w is a massive saving. What's more it basically equates to needing one less mars bar[1] per day of riding.

Regarding cost: I hear ya; a few years back I scoffed at the idea of spending more than 20 euros on a part that wears out. But in the case of tyres I've come 180 degrees and now pay for those expensive Compass Extra Light tyres. The JBP lasted 7000km on the rear with me (60kg rider though). Besides, in your case you only need one expensive tyre

I wrote of a GP4ksii on my way to Hell last year. I got a piece of Danish flint stuck in it, and when I tried to remove it, the tip broke off, which just kept puncturing me. I might have been able to boot it, or put ducttape it or something, but in the end I dumped it in Gotburg, and put a specialised Armadillo on there. On which I didn't get any flats, but bloomin' eck, it was like riding on a wooden wagon wheel. It got me to Hell, but I was pleased to replace it when I got home.

How do you find the Compass extra lights for flat protection? Given that much of the Dutch cycle network is paved with broken glass, I'm kinda paranoid (and also impressed with how well both GP4ksii and GP5k resist broken glass, even if flint just goes straight through).

J

[1]Mars bar being the ISO standard way of measuring food energy right?

[Kim]

[1]Mars bar being the ISO standard way of measuring food energy right?

Except in Scotland, where they have their own standard Mars bar.

[mzjo]

Does the (world's best tyre in the universe ever) GP5000 come in non-tubeless-ready form? I was under the impression that if you're running tubes, a tubeless tyre is a compromise*  - happy to be corrected!


*and in this case, a very expensive one - I'd rather stick to my 4KIIs!

They come in both Tubeless, and tubed flavours. They also come upto 622x32 sizes.

Having run both GP4k and GP5k (infact currently one on the front, one on the back respectively), I'm preferring the 5k. Not from a faster point of view, but they are just easier to get on and off, and they look nicer. They aren't the cheapest, but noone seems to sell them at RRP anyway.

J

As of last night the GP5000 were cheaper than the GP4000 on Cycletyres Direct, also lighter in 32 (a better discount makes a lot of difference). About 42€ IIRC.
I run Zaffiro Pro on one bike (in 23). They don't impress me as particularly performing tyres, I prefer the Hutchinsons that I have.

This bent does not have suspension. Given that I have to buy it a tyre (and find it a better rear wheel than what's on it at the moment, which is there only to keep it off the ground) I may as well do the job as well as I can, within my limits. I feel that lowering rotational weight should have an effect (and if I don't put a computer on it no-one will know any better; it's all in the mind!). The fatter section to soak up rough road surfaces and reduce rolling resistance is part of the logic. Making it more enjoyable to ride should mean that I make the effort to use it more, which will also improve performance. In terms of overall weight it won't be much (I weigh a bit more than 70kg) but putting a tractor tyre on a bike never made it go faster anyway. In 32 section tyre weights go from simple to double.
I like Panaracer tyres very much but perhaps it's the moment to try the GP5000.
The front tyre is a 28 section Hutchinson but since it's 500A the choice is a bit limited. I might need to see what other size rim will go in.

[mattc]

Does the (world's best tyre in the universe ever) GP5000 come in non-tubeless-ready form? I was under the impression that if you're running tubes, a tubeless tyre is a compromise*  - happy to be corrected!


*and in this case, a very expensive one - I'd rather stick to my 4KIIs!

They come in both Tubeless, and tubed flavours. They also come upto 622x32 sizes.

Having run both GP4k and GP5k (infact currently one on the front, one on the back respectively), I'm preferring the 5k. Not from a faster point of view, but they are just easier to get on and off, and they look nicer. They aren't the cheapest, but noone seems to sell them at RRP anyway.

J

Thanks. Further digging suggests Conti never made the 4000Sii in bigger than 28mm size, so its pretty irrelevant to this thread! My fault ...

Bugbear alert

(click to show/hide)

People, please don't argue that a product is cheap just because "noone pays RRP" ; newsflash - noone pays RRP for ANYTHING!!! e.g. in this case, firstpage of google shows the 4000 to be $11-15 cheaper than the 5000 from similar outlets.
It's a fact that Conti pitched it around $10-15 dearer than the old tyre, and the reviews confirm this.

Sorry, OT rant , as you were ...

[Zed43]

Isn't it about how fast you can spin the wheel up to speed? It's the unsprung weight thing with suspension...

Hence my "once you're in motion" qualifier, I can image rotational weight having an impact when accelerating.

How do you find the Compass extra lights for flat protection? Given that much of the Dutch cycle network is paved with broken glass, I'm kinda paranoid (and also impressed with how well both GP4ksii and GP5k resist broken glass, even if flint just goes straight through).

Four punctures in about 15k km with the 35mm EL I think; with two the tubeless setup did its job, the other two did need more attention.

On my new bike I have the 38mm EL (650b) installed and got to put a new tube in within the first 600 km... On hindsight both were probably caused by the same puncture, a small sharp thorn (like the tip of a rose thorn). I have since replaced the XX-light Schwalbe SV14a tubes with there regular, more sturdy SV12 ones (at the cost of 50 grams per wheel )

Last year I did the Brian Chapman, This Is Not A Tour (partly off road) and two weeks of touring in Wales and the South-West with the 48mm EL without any problems (an unavoidable deep pothole caused the destruction of the Arkel Light panniers, but no damage to the rear tyre nor snake bite of the tube).

For reference: in ~ 7k km no punctures on a pair of 28mm GP4000 tyres.

[mattc]

Isn't it about how fast you can spin the wheel up to speed? It's the unsprung weight thing with suspension...

Hence my "once you're in motion" qualifier, I can image rotational weight having an impact when accelerating.

Is all your motion at constant speed?

ALL weights are most important when accelerating;  so any weight* concerns apply even more to tyre weights (and rim weights, but much less so to hubs and pedals/cranks etc ...) When is weight most relevant? I'd say when you're out of the saddle, struggling to keep moving up a climb - is your speed perfectly constant in this scenario?

Bear in mind that in the real word speed is mostly fluctuating, at least a bit!


*this is probably more about mass, but let's avoid that issue for now ...

[StuAff]

Schwalbe Marathon Supreme. Fast. Tough. Available in tubeless-easy.

[interested]

Are there any other suggestions for tyres in this size?

The new Continental "Continental Grand Prix Urban" is a foldable ETRTO: 35-622 tyre at only 350 g. Seen it for less than 27 Euro at bike24.
It has the same BlackChili compound as the GP5000.
https://www.continental-tires.com/bicycle/tires/race-tires/grand-prix-urban

[mcshroom]

Continental Grand sport race apparently also come in 32mm - https://conti-tyres.co.uk/road-and-track/clinchers/grand-sport-race

[phantasmagoriana]

Are there any other suggestions for tyres in this size?

The new Continental "Continental Grand Prix Urban" is a foldable ETRTO: 35-622 tyre at only 350 g. Seen it for less than 27 Euro at bike24.
It has the same BlackChili compound as the GP5000.
https://www.continental-tires.com/bicycle/tires/race-tires/grand-prix-urban

Ooh - I've not come across that one before; looks promising.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Schwalbe Marathon Supreme. Fast. Tough. Available in tubeless-easy.

those or voyager hyper would do the job

Not quite a low rolling resistance as a 'proper' road tyre, but really not far off it. 17W
GP5000 in 32mm - 11W

[quixoticgeek]

Bugbear alert

(click to show/hide)

People, please don't argue that a product is cheap just because "noone pays RRP" ; newsflash - noone pays RRP for ANYTHING!!! e.g. in this case, firstpage of google shows the 4000 to be $11-15 cheaper than the 5000 from similar outlets.
It's a fact that Conti pitched it around $10-15 dearer than the old tyre, and the reviews confirm this.

Sorry, OT rant , as you were ...

You make a very good point, my reasoning for the comment was when they came out everyone was commenting on how expensive they were, then they actually went on sale, and the price was considerably lower. Thus negating the "But they are so expensive" comment of all the reviews made before they could be bought by mortals.

But yes, I agree with you. Sorry for being unclear.

J

PS My main annoyance is that they don't make a reflective side wall version of the 5k, but did of the 4k They also don't make a reflective side wall version of the four seasons either

[mzjo]

Bugbear alert

(click to show/hide)

People, please don't argue that a product is cheap just because "noone pays RRP" ; newsflash - noone pays RRP for ANYTHING!!! e.g. in this case, firstpage of google shows the 4000 to be $11-15 cheaper than the 5000 from similar outlets.
It's a fact that Conti pitched it around $10-15 dearer than the old tyre, and the reviews confirm this.

Sorry, OT rant , as you were ...

You make a very good point, my reasoning for the comment was when they came out everyone was commenting on how expensive they were, then they actually went on sale, and the price was considerably lower. Thus negating the "But they are so expensive" comment of all the reviews made before they could be bought by mortals.

But yes, I agree with you. Sorry for being unclear.

J

PS My main annoyance is that they don't make a reflective side wall version of the 5k, but did of the 4k They also don't make a reflective side wall version of the four seasons either

My view on that is that what interests me is the price that I pay for them, the rrp is of interest only for asking why a tyre has been discounted so much.  The discount rate can show up things like a tyre that is so crap no-one wants to buy it, colour combinations that no discerning rider would be seen alive alongside them (which is how I come to have one blue-treaded Zaffiro Pro, which only cost 13€ in winter sales) or preparations for a revamped model. If the tyre looks to be correct for my needs and the price fits in the budget I have set myself then expensive or not is not a consideration. (But I haven't bought tyres this expensive for any other bike, for those I am happy with a lower budget figure).

re reflective sidewalls; this is not a consideration for me, perhaps Continental had research that showed it wasn't a consideration for the majority of their target users. I am however surprised that they don't offer it  on the 4 seasons, given their proclaimed target usage for that tyre.

I had seen the GP Urban and GS Race. I may be passing up on a good deal but if I want a 350-400g tyre there is more choice than that. My objective was lighter as far as possible. There are also Gatorskins in this category! Incidentally I made an error because when I thought I saw 4000 it was in fact 4 Seasons only the Seasons bit was hidden under a promotional band! Teach me to pay more attention in future. Tubeless GP5000's are in a different pay scale to the tubed version.

I may be biased but I am not attracted to anything with Marathon as a part of the name. Can't think why!!

Edit: I looked up the Marathon Plus on my preferred site. Weight 810g in 35C. Not even listed as "route".  (Looking for a tractor with pedals now). Prejudiced - never