Author Topic: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?  (Read 7652 times)

Biggsy

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Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #25 on: 06 January, 2011, 01:27:49 pm »
I would slow right down for that point anyway even if there were no setts.  It wouldn't bother me personally - though I still agree that an improvement is needed for those whom it does bother.
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gordon taylor

Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #26 on: 06 January, 2011, 07:51:39 pm »
The photo looks like a standard road junction, of which there are thousands in the UK. Notwithstanding that I'm sorry that someone got hurt, I'd be pretty miffed if my own council shelled out some of my money to a high-speed cyclist who'd fallen off at that junction.

Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #27 on: 06 January, 2011, 08:01:50 pm »
The photo looks like a standard road junction, of which there are thousands in the UK. Notwithstanding that I'm sorry that someone got hurt, I'd be pretty miffed if my own council shelled out some of my money to a high-speed cyclist who'd fallen off at that junction.

I have to say I agree, although like Gordy I'm always sorry to hear that anyone has fallen.

If this was Belgium/France/Holland there would be long stretches of much more extreme pave, and 90 degree turns across tram lines etc as well.


Oaky

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Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #28 on: 06 January, 2011, 08:44:34 pm »
When I saw the approximate location, I was sure it was going to be this junction.  I saw a fellow postgrad come off his bike rather spectacularly on that one back in the early 90s.
You are in a maze of twisty flat droves, all alike.

85.4 miles from Marsh Gibbon

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Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #29 on: 06 January, 2011, 08:57:50 pm »
Get the legals in there.  Raise a stink with the local press, especially if he's got anything gruesome.  Take a low macro photo of the giant bricks of DETH.  

Put up a faux roadsign saying "deliberate hazard, cyclists and motorcycles beware".  Stand by it for the photo-op for the local press.

Tell the council you will go in with a pickaxe if they don't act.

+1

and invite them to cycle into that junction from the road on a road bike in front of the press. Let rip if they refuse.

At the very least, it should bring the hazzard to people's attention and possibly save a few more incidents, even if the problem isn't fixed. They may save money at the expense of votes...

Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #30 on: 06 January, 2011, 09:07:10 pm »
I have to say if this was in my area I would go there with a jack hammer and do some 'damage' since they are stating they can only fund repairs to damaged things. I reckon if you wore high vis and cordoned the area off with some pinched road signs no one would stop you.

Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #31 on: 06 January, 2011, 09:29:14 pm »
The photo looks like a standard road junction
That's exactly the point Gordy - it "looks" like a standard junction. Unfortunately it isn't - standard junctions don't tend to dump cyclists off their bikes. I'm not complaining about the one that Oaky has linked to - I ride over that every day on my commute to work. The difference between the two junctions is that the scoria blocks are approximately level with the road surface in Oaky's example - not raised above it. There are junctions all over the place in with similar sett lines - but it's appears to be standard practice to bevel the leading edge in to the road surface - not leave a hard upstanding. You don't need to go to Europe to find them - I can show you a dozen examples within a mile of where I live (the closest is at the end of my drive...). The point is that this one is different - it's been badly laid but it isn't apparent until you hit it.

Quote
I'd be pretty miffed if my own council shelled out some of my money to a high-speed cyclist who'd fallen off at that junction.
and I'd be pretty miffed to - this is exactly what I'm trying to avoid, but is what will happen if something isn't done. You don't have to be a high speed cyclist to come off, by the way, but the fact that its on a hill means that it's more likely that a cyclist will hit it at a speed which is well within the legal limit.

P.S. I've been informed that there may have been another cyclist off there today. However, it's only anecdotal so I can't really use it.

David Martin

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Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #32 on: 06 January, 2011, 10:34:40 pm »
Wait for the weather to improve then bevel the edge with a bag of concrete or tarmac.

There must be a spec somewhere for upstands at junctions.

..d
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Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #33 on: 06 January, 2011, 11:40:10 pm »
Slowcoach, what is the road drainage like on the main road? are there any gullies or does it rely on the water running down the hill? Looking at the photos and the letter you received they are using the sets to stop the water running down the side road.

If there are gullies and highways drains there then all they need is to lower the sets and install a new gully immediately up hill of the junction and keep it clear.

Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #34 on: 07 January, 2011, 09:34:49 am »
The photo looks like a standard road junction, of which there are thousands in the UK. Notwithstanding that I'm sorry that someone got hurt, I'd be pretty miffed if my own council shelled out some of my money to a high-speed cyclist who'd fallen off at that junction.

I have to say I agree, although like Gordy I'm always sorry to hear that anyone has fallen.

If this was Belgium/France/Holland there would be long stretches of much more extreme pave, and 90 degree turns across tram lines etc as well.

It's the contrast between everyday road and a feature that will bring you down which is important, not some absolute measure of badness. On my way into the office every day I ride on pave that would make the most ferocious northern classic seem like a newly-surfaced velodrome - the upstand between many blocks is well over an inch, and there are many potholes / missing blocks and eruptions to avoid.

However, just because it's fine to have a sharp bend on an unclassified country road with single-file traffic doesn't imply that we'd love to see a 90 degree, merge-to-one-lane bend on a motorway (without some kind of advance warning). Similarly, this sett is unacceptable *in the context within which it has been placed*.

If my council deliberately maintained a feature which was both unnecessary and they were getting reports of accidents, I should think they'd be ripe to learn a litigious lesson and I wouldn't cry if they did get spanked by the courts, if that was the only way to make the thing safe.

Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #35 on: 07 January, 2011, 10:05:13 am »
I don't think that junction is standard or acceptable, Gordy.  Since the OP knows of two crashes there that resulted in injury, that seems to support his viewpoint, as does the photo.

I'd be quite tempted to bevel the edge as suggested, but the legal option is probably the better route.  That council is negligent, IMO.
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Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #36 on: 07 January, 2011, 11:54:49 am »
I may be spending the evening typing up the school reports he is now trying to dictate instead of write.

And the cost of paying your invoice for this work at the going rate is directly attributable to the poorly installed setts. There's his claim. (IANAL and GWS)


mattc

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Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #37 on: 07 January, 2011, 01:48:34 pm »
Warning - possibly stupid question ahead:

What _is_ the legal position wrt making your own improvements/repairs?

I suppose there's 2 angles - if you make the highway more dangerous then you might be in line for negligence claims against yourself!
But I'm thinking more about what laws you might be breaking ...

?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #38 on: 07 January, 2011, 02:42:18 pm »
If you wrecked the sets so that they had to carry out repairs then that would presumably be criminal damage. Myself, I would claim temporary insanity after a bump on the head coming off on the sets made me do it ;)

If what you did was to improve them and not damage them then I suppose you could be prosecuted for not having some necessary licence or other to work on the roads.

Regulator

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Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #39 on: 07 January, 2011, 04:17:01 pm »
Warning - possibly stupid question ahead:

What _is_ the legal position wrt making your own improvements/repairs?

I suppose there's 2 angles - if you make the highway more dangerous then you might be in line for negligence claims against yourself!
But I'm thinking more about what laws you might be breaking ...

?

It is an offence to interfere with the fabric of the highway.
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

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mattc

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Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #40 on: 07 January, 2011, 04:20:52 pm »
Warning - possibly stupid question ahead:

What _is_ the legal position wrt making your own improvements/repairs?

I suppose there's 2 angles - if you make the highway more dangerous then you might be in line for negligence claims against yourself!
But I'm thinking more about what laws you might be breaking ...

?

It is an offence to interfere with the fabric of the highway.
What about adding to the fabric of the highway?!?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Salvatore

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Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #41 on: 07 January, 2011, 04:21:12 pm »
Warning - possibly stupid question ahead:

What _is_ the legal position wrt making your own improvements/repairs?

I suppose there's 2 angles - if you make the highway more dangerous then you might be in line for negligence claims against yourself!
But I'm thinking more about what laws you might be breaking ...

?

It is an offence to interfere with the fabric of the highway.

Best not to do it with an axe either. Save it for your bottom bracket.
A CYCLIST marked a loose paving slab with an axe as a warning to pedestrians, a court heard.
Quote
et avec John, excellent lecteur de road-book, on s'en est sortis sans erreur

Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #42 on: 10 January, 2011, 08:36:06 pm »
Update - I've just received an email from the Highways Authority via my local CTC Rep.

Quote
I am pleased to inform you that I have been able to provide funds from the Local Area Programme to allow these blocks to be removed.
 
The works will be completed before the end of the financial year

It's times like this when I'm thankful I've paid my CTC subs. This issue has been running since February 2007. I'm sure their input has been a major contributory factor. Their backing stops the issue being treated as if it's come from a solo nutter with a gripe.


Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #43 on: 10 January, 2011, 08:51:06 pm »
 :thumbsup:

clarion

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Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #44 on: 10 January, 2011, 09:01:25 pm »
Result.
Getting there...

gordon taylor

Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #45 on: 10 January, 2011, 09:37:45 pm »
Amazing.  :thumbsup:

Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #46 on: 10 January, 2011, 10:24:20 pm »
Someone has seen sense.  :thumbsup:

Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #47 on: 10 January, 2011, 10:43:45 pm »
I must go and look at them before they go - only  8 miles from Durham - woth my ctc subs too!

Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #48 on: 10 January, 2011, 10:58:52 pm »
Awesome?
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Regulator

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Re: How do I make anyone take notice - re: road hazard affecting cyclists?
« Reply #49 on: 11 January, 2011, 08:10:04 am »
Just as a matter of interest, was the 'local CTC rep' your local CTC councillor or the local Right to Ride person?
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

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