Author Topic: Base training  (Read 250357 times)

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #300 on: 23 November, 2016, 12:58:57 pm »
Ah, coaches. Rowing club, several intervals in to some ridiculous workout:

"Come on Proven, get that pace back below 2:00, I know you can do better than that!"

rob

Re: Base training
« Reply #301 on: 23 November, 2016, 01:51:11 pm »
Ah, coaches. Rowing club, several intervals in to some ridiculous workout:

"Come on Proven, get that pace back below 2:00, I know you can do better than that!"

To be fair this bloke seems remarkably sensible and the workouts have been challenging, but not killers.    However I am only in week 4 and target races don't start until May/June.

Re: Base training
« Reply #302 on: 23 November, 2016, 03:34:31 pm »
I just think I am such a disappointment to my coach.  I try to do everything he says but I get muscle pain and just cannot turn off my "central governor".  Trying for a TSS of over 600 this week but only managed 85 in todays work out.

Chris S

Re: Base training
« Reply #303 on: 23 November, 2016, 04:30:55 pm »
600?  :o

Jeez - you guys seem to be going at it pretty hard, considering it's only November. I'm barely ticking over with hours of base work.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #304 on: 23 November, 2016, 05:13:35 pm »
My HRtss for a 200k was about 800. Probably overestimated.

TrainerRoad high volume is around 400/week. I rarely do 100%. Older riders may not be able to handle as much TSS as younger. I managed total including rowing of around 400 last week and am pretty tired.

How long was this workout that gave a TSS of 85? Is your FTP measured accurately. I did 1h yesterday which was TSS of 67. Not a trivial workout.

As for the muscle pain, if doing efforts near or above FTP you get that. The longer the effort the more it builds. Are you doing too much threshold work too soon?

Re: Base training
« Reply #305 on: 23 November, 2016, 06:02:26 pm »
TSS for the last 7 days is 520.  I hate looking at my CTL, as it's dropped so much since the summer I feel sad.

Did a sprint workout from Today's Plan (signed up for a year - much prefer it to Training Peaks - it actually gives you the workouts for whatever platform you want, not just tell you what TSS to aim for and what filters to use). Did 2*15m SST at 65rpm (hate low rpm work) then 4*10s 715w. That burnt the dust off the Neo!

Re: Base training
« Reply #306 on: 23 November, 2016, 06:24:14 pm »
715W is pretty good.  I can only hit that for a couple of seconds.


I will hit the 600TSS for the week but it will include about 240 for my Sunday ride.  I have 80km and 1550m of climb planned on all my favourite hills.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #307 on: 23 November, 2016, 07:01:47 pm »
I managed 782W for 10s on the Kernow 600k last year allegedly.  Maybe this is why I DNFed.

My highest recently recorded power is 1295W from last year for a couple of seconds. Steep hill start on fixed.

rob

Re: Base training
« Reply #308 on: 23 November, 2016, 08:37:16 pm »
Don't really know my TSS, but I'm doing 15hrs a week of varying intensities.

I saw Adam Topham* quoted as clicking around 700 TSS a week for 12hrs training.   




*multi BBAR winner

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Base training
« Reply #309 on: 23 November, 2016, 09:03:13 pm »
Not all TSS are created equal though, I was a LOT faster this year on half the CTL as last year, all because I did a lot of turbo sessions and very few audax.

In this morning's session I managed to record an impossible 115TSS, but I always manage to hit an IF>1 for this 60:60 session whereas it's all my longer interval sessions match FTP expectations more accurately (although I have improved 5/6W since the last test probably). https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/4511562-ak-billat-60-60 I did feel halfway through interval #3 that there was no way I would be able to finish the the first block of 6 but I use the Adam Topham principle and just think one minute at a time.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #310 on: 23 November, 2016, 10:42:11 pm »
I've found Billatts such as TR's Gendarme relatively easy.

As for quality, I agree you get far more bang per buck from trainer/turbo time than time on the road. Which means I had higher FTP and better fat burning from a much lower time commitment.

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Base training
« Reply #311 on: 24 November, 2016, 07:28:12 am »
I've found Billatts such as TR's Gendarme relatively easy.

Yes, I found the 30:30 version pretty pointless on a bike. Ideas of course developed for runners rather than cyclists though. The 60:60 session works really well for me as long as I push a higher power than the paper suggests. I do this session once a week and the classic 5x3' Billat's once a week too, my other regular session is a Seiler 4x8'.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #312 on: 24 November, 2016, 10:28:43 am »
I've found Billatts such as TR's Gendarme relatively easy.

Yes, I found the 30:30 version pretty pointless on a bike. Ideas of course developed for runners rather than cyclists though. The 60:60 session works really well for me as long as I push a higher power than the paper suggests. I do this session once a week and the classic 5x3' Billat's once a week too, my other regular session is a Seiler 4x8'.

50:50 in Ansel Adams seems to be quite punishing for me and more like where I should be. 3x12 of 50:50 at 135% FTP. I can usually barely manage it.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #313 on: 24 November, 2016, 08:57:09 pm »
Just did Solomons. Always surprised to finish on target.  :thumbsup: A few more seconds on the last interval would have defeated me.

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Base training
« Reply #314 on: 25 November, 2016, 06:16:49 am »
Just did Solomons. Always surprised to finish on target.  :thumbsup: A few more seconds on the last interval would have defeated me.

I like the look of that one! I usually only have time for one hour sessions midweek but aim to do a 90' one at the weekend so may try this on Sunday.

Re: Base training
« Reply #315 on: 27 November, 2016, 10:25:20 am »


That's an *anaerobic capacity workout" from today's plan, adjusted to extend endurance to make room for a pub lunch. The 5 x FTPX1.4 for 1m30s were challenging, like trying to follow someone stronger bridging a gap (specifically a chap called Mel Hartley from Condor, who despite having more than 10 years on me can remove my legs and batter me with them at will). However, my TSS came out 30% higher than estimated, whereas usually it's bang on. That's because I'm shit at anaerobic stuff, right? Maybe a bit of cardiac drift in the second endurance interval too I guess?

All this VO2 and anaerobic stuff is new to me. I think it was because in the today's plan survey they do before building a plan admitted I'm shit at keeping on the back of bunch accelerations.

Re: Base training
« Reply #316 on: 27 November, 2016, 11:11:27 am »
Very nice.

I did my endurance workout yesterday, so 64km and 1200m of climb with VO2 max efforts going over the tops.  Seriously????  The VO2max efforts only happened in the last 15km and were definitely sub par.

TSS for the ride was 290 and another 89 today gives me 683 for the week.  Not bad for a 58 year old.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #317 on: 27 November, 2016, 09:38:32 pm »
I went out with two local riders today. They met up with me in the square having already done 10 miles. Where's I only had two miles before we climbed up to Longbottom. Got my HR to 190 by the top. Never done that climb before - now I know why. The Sunday ride is meant to be 3h of much easier riding. In the end I had 250 TSS from 2h30 moving time. So after a coffee back home I did 1h30 on the KickR for 310 TSS of the day.

628 for the week between cycling and rowing. Could be higher for the next week as Saturday will most likely exceed that.

Re: Base training
« Reply #318 on: 27 November, 2016, 09:57:55 pm »
310 in a single day is seriously impressive. I think I would probably be dead to do 250 in 2.5 hours.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #319 on: 30 November, 2016, 02:25:03 pm »
310 in a single day is seriously impressive. I think I would probably be dead to do 250 in 2.5 hours.

Hmm. My TSS was from HR in this case. And I was on fixed which probably increases HR relative to power on the harder climbs.

It's interesting to compare the same workout last night (Carillon) with the same for January. Nearly identical power output and 7bpm lower mean HR and >10bpm lower max HR. I think that means I'm ahead of last year. I've been following the plan a lot more consistently and it's paying off.

Supposed to be doing a rowing fitness test this week. Unfortunately it's a test I've never done before so tricky to pace.

rob

Re: Base training
« Reply #320 on: 30 November, 2016, 02:37:14 pm »
I was surprised to lean that an adaptation week doesn't, in fact, mean riding gently to the cafĂ©.   Balls.

Re: Base training
« Reply #321 on: 30 November, 2016, 04:22:27 pm »
I know what you mean.  I thought a rest week was that - a "rest week". Apparently not.  Just slightly less than last week.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #322 on: 30 November, 2016, 04:28:25 pm »
Next week is supposed to be recovery week for me - 328 TSS over 7h.

Except I'm riding a 200k on Saturday which is going to be 8h+ riding time and some ridiculous TSS.

LMT

Re: Base training
« Reply #323 on: 30 November, 2016, 10:54:14 pm »
Very nice.

I did my endurance workout yesterday, so 64km and 1200m of climb with VO2 max efforts going over the tops.  Seriously????  The VO2max efforts only happened in the last 15km and were definitely sub par.

TSS for the ride was 290 and another 89 today gives me 683 for the week.  Not bad for a 58 year old.

If you want to test out your endurance try a de-coupling test.

Re: Base training
« Reply #324 on: 01 December, 2016, 08:55:41 am »
LMT, I might wait a while for that as I saw a worthwhile improvement in FTP last night but of course that means the next few weeks will be harder again!