Author Topic: No stop strategy  (Read 13821 times)

Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #25 on: 07 November, 2017, 11:31:05 pm »
Thanks for all the replies so far.

I was trialling this with 2 thoughts in mind:

1. To see if it was feasible for me to build up enough time to contemplate doing a 600
2. To minimise the time spent in the dark

I obtained proof of passage by buying something from the cafe controls. I assume they didn't really care if I downed the can of coke sitting for 30minutes or in 2 minutes while sorting out my routesheet. I'm also sure the very stressed looking ladies in the busy cafe at the garden centre control were happy I just bought a bar of fudge from the Garden centre shop instead. I don't think I disrespected anyone as I fully supported the controls?

I have previously thought that the only way I could do a 600 was with no sleep which really put me off but I now think sleep might be possible if I can stretch this strategy to 300k ish, then on day 2 I can take a more relaxed approach.

I expected my overall time to be quicker but was surprised that my moving time was also quicker. I think this was because every time faster riders passed it made me wake up and pick up my pace a bit. I'm happy riding on my own or in a group but if I'm on my own I do like to see other cyclists around from time to time

Audax Ecosse - always going too far

Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #26 on: 08 November, 2017, 07:22:06 am »
Especially during a flatter audax this startegy won't give you a faster time. You do indeed decrease your stopped time, but your riding time will increase. During flatter rides a good group helps you enormously in being fast on the road without wasting too much energy. Part of creating a good group is some social interaction while stopping at a control. For me, it can mean a difference of 2km/h in pure riding averange. Relating that to my usual riding average that means 45 minutes gain on the road. 45 minutes that's one very long stop.

mattc

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Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #27 on: 08 November, 2017, 08:53:45 am »
I also recognise the statement about being slower after a food stop. Riding as a group on Saturday I found it very hard to take a turn on the front just after a stop but after an hour was able to take longer turns. Blood flow diverted to digestion?

Drifting off topic somewhat but try eating backwards - as in cake first, followed by main course. Or scoff a few jelly babies in the last few minutes before you arrive at the control - or even while waiting in queue at the counter.  The thinking is to get glycogen in the muscles all ready for use immediately you get back on bike.
Maybe a placebo effect but my legs always feel less heavy after a stop if I remember to do this.
And thanks to hellymedic for the original suggestion.
Yes this does work ... but ... it's only good for the carb-addicted amongst us. If you've managed to escape this vicious circle and eat mainly low-carb or no-carb stuff, then eating your sugar first at a stop is a disaster. Great for morale though :)

(And I would recommend to anyone that they try to reduce carb-dependency in their (audaxing) life. That's not to say you NEED to of course.)

And another thing ... this "dead-legs" after a stop. I think we worry too much about it; it's usually 5 mins at a slightly sluggardly pace. It might lose you a TdeF stage, but in our events it really doesn't matter.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

frankly frankie

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Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #28 on: 08 November, 2017, 09:14:25 am »
Drifting off topic somewhat but try eating backwards - as in cake first, followed by main course.

Sheila used to do this, and recommended it to others.  Purely to save time, not for any high-falutin' scientific mumbo-jumbo reason.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #29 on: 08 November, 2017, 09:18:01 am »
Especially during a flatter audax this startegy won't give you a faster time. You do indeed decrease your stopped time, but your riding time will increase. During flatter rides a good group helps you enormously in being fast on the road without wasting too much energy. Part of creating a good group is some social interaction while stopping at a control. For me, it can mean a difference of 2km/h in pure riding averange. Relating that to my usual riding average that means 45 minutes gain on the road. 45 minutes that's one very long stop.

It wouldn't affect me as I rarely ever ride in a group. If it's more than just me then it's usually just with one other, and I'll try and spend most of the time riding next to them (where there's no aerodynamic benefit). But mostly I'm on an Audax to get away from everything (including most other people).

(There have been times where I have mercilessly wheelsucked but that's usually out of dire need than any grand group riding plan.)
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #30 on: 08 November, 2017, 09:35:48 am »
I have never found a well organised grupetto at the back of an audax. I'm sure it may have happened but not on the audaxes I have done. I too have mostly ridden along side one other or on my own. I can only think of a couple of occasions where I have ridden with more than this.

One of the things I really like about audax is the freedom to ride on your own or in a group as you please. If I'm having a dip in morale it's generally best for everyone if I ride on my own for a bit!
Audax Ecosse - always going too far

whosatthewheel

Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #31 on: 08 November, 2017, 09:52:30 am »


And another thing ... this "dead-legs" after a stop. I think we worry too much about it; it's usually 5 mins at a slightly sluggardly pace. It might lose you a TdeF stage, but in our events it really doesn't matter.

Completely agree...

Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #32 on: 08 November, 2017, 09:57:10 am »
,,,,, I'm on an Audax to get away from everything (including most other people).
Great minds think alike. :-D

Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #33 on: 08 November, 2017, 10:41:58 am »
I usually fall off the back of groups halfway between controls, so keeping my stops short is the only way to not ride the next segment alone.

(Also, I sincerely hope organisers aren't telling cafés that 100% of riders will buy something. By the time I arrive they're typically heaving, and queuing and waiting at every one would easily put me over time on some rides)

Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #34 on: 08 November, 2017, 10:59:25 am »
Realising that it's a somewhat personal preference issue, what food is considered good for "eating on the go"?

Poached egg on toast seems less than optimal, for example.

whosatthewheel

Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #35 on: 08 November, 2017, 11:07:59 am »
Realising that it's a somewhat personal preference issue, what food is considered good for "eating on the go"?

Poached egg on toast seems less than optimal, for example.

I would say poached eggs on toast is ideal food... of course you want to keep a steady 20 mph moving average, then you might need more carbs and less proteins.
I am happy with 16 mph and always look for the egg sandwich in the shop.

A decent mixture of carbs, proteins and fats seem to wear out at a slower rate, whereas pure simble carbs leave you at the edge of a cliff with very short notice


Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #36 on: 08 November, 2017, 11:19:49 am »
I would say poached eggs on toast is ideal food... [...] always look for the egg sandwich in the shop.

Egg sandwich != poached egg on toast !

I knew that I should have said beans on toast (which I don't actually like).

IJL

Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #37 on: 08 November, 2017, 11:43:39 am »
Quote
I knew that I should have said beans on toast (which I don't actually like).


OT but I find that cafes have increasingly gone upmarket Quiche and a bit or salad is always on the menu but beans on toast seems to a rarity.  Asking for the holy grail of Audax food, beans on toast with a fried egg on top tends to be greeted with an expression that suggests I'm a recently escaped and dangerous lunatic.

whosatthewheel

Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #38 on: 08 November, 2017, 11:54:45 am »
Quote
I knew that I should have said beans on toast (which I don't actually like).


OT but I find that cafes have increasingly gone upmarket Quiche and a bit or salad is always on the menu but beans on toast seems to a rarity.  Asking for the holy grail of Audax food, beans on toast with a fried egg on top tends to be greeted with an expression that suggests I'm a recently escaped and dangerous lunatic.

I am at some point going to write a piece for my blog about good cycling cafes in the Midlands. My very favourite is the "touch down cafe'" at the Wellesbourne airfield. Everything is reasonably priced and no classic is missed from the list... you can eat with a view of aircrafts landing and taking off and the only remaining Vulcan bomber on the runway... downside is that it is always packed

mattc

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Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #39 on: 08 November, 2017, 12:14:59 pm »
Realising that it's a somewhat personal preference issue, what food is considered good for "eating on the go"?

Poached egg on toast seems less than optimal, for example.
I'm guessing you mean food that you can eat while riding? :P

If so, there are 2 main types:
- food that comes in dozens of small pieces that are easily snaffled in ones or threes. Jelly babies are the canonical example. The drawback is that most of these are sugar/carb stuff. If that works for you - great. Nuts are good, but most are a bit small, and they're nearly always sold covered in salt.
- stuff you can break off a bit, or take a big bite and put the rest back. Pork pies are popular. I actually go for lumps of cheese these days [if it's pretty hard it won't go off in your bag]. *some* flapjacks work well. Malt loaf* is the reeeeal retro classic!
- some fruit fit into one-or-both categories. (bananas, dried apricot, apples)


I'm always interested in new suggestions  :thumbsup:

I refuse to discuss anything bought from a "Sports Nutrition" vendor.

*If you haven't tried it, Banana flavour is great - but not everyone likes it...
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #40 on: 08 November, 2017, 12:29:44 pm »
the holy grail of Audax food, beans on toast with a fried egg on top

Nah, the holy grail of Audax food is a Snickers bar and a Red Bull  ;)
Eddington Number = 132

Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #41 on: 08 November, 2017, 01:03:46 pm »
Realising that it's a somewhat personal preference issue, what food is considered good for "eating on the go"?

Poached egg on toast seems less than optimal, for example.
I'm guessing you mean food that you can eat while riding? :P

I go for mostly savoury stuff like Ginsters Sausage Rolls (although fat/salt content is often excessive) but mostly just sandwiches. The pasties or steak/curry slices are just too big and unwieldy to eat on the move unless you know you've got a long flat simple to navigate section coming up.

Stuff that is easy to hold in one hand whilst riding and small enough that you can eat it in two or three bites should you come to section of road where you need both hands on the bars (tricky junctions, a climb or a descent).

Pick the appropriate sandwich that doesn't have loose contents (BLT bad for this), has the right mix of carb/protein/fat/etc for you, and also won't make a mess of where you're stashing it. Chicken and stuffing works well for me but there are plenty of others.

Squash them down a bit after buying them, rip them into smaller chunks (for two or three bites) and bung them back into their packaging and stuff that in a jersey pocket or otherwise accessible bag. Try and spread eating everything out over the entire time between controls (this does take some getting used to, but at first just don't bolt the food down quickly in the first 5 minutes).

If it's raining it can be a lot trickier (soggy sandwiches aren't always fun) but then you can always fall back to quick stops under shelter along the way or just using the cafe controls (to eat their food, not your own food).
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #42 on: 08 November, 2017, 02:08:14 pm »
If I'm having a dip in morale it's generally best for everyone if I ride on my own for a bit!

Oh I don't know - I seem to remember it being quite fun riding with you when you were grumpy and damp.

rob

Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #43 on: 08 November, 2017, 02:11:24 pm »
Sports food when you're on the go.   It's what it's designed for.    Make sure you practice opening bars on the move or chop them in half beforehand like I do giving you ease of access and bit sized pieces.

Sandwiches/crisps/gimsters at garage controls whilst having a quick break.

Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #44 on: 08 November, 2017, 02:32:59 pm »
The best sausage roll I've tasted was from the cafe at Kemble Airfield.

Kim

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Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #45 on: 08 November, 2017, 02:56:22 pm »
the holy grail of Audax food, beans on toast with a fried egg on top

Nah, the holy grail of Audax food is a Snickers bar and a Red Bull  ;)

ITYM bottle of Frijj and a Ginsters pastie...

hillbilly

Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #46 on: 08 November, 2017, 03:05:44 pm »
For the cyclist on the go:



gives a new meaning to head down, chewing the handlebars.

whosatthewheel

Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #47 on: 08 November, 2017, 03:21:51 pm »
The best sausage roll I've tasted was from the cafe at Kemble Airfield.

The Bakery in Shipston upon Stour makes a version with black pudding as well as sausage inside... it's awesome but it stays with you for the rest of the day

Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #48 on: 08 November, 2017, 05:53:33 pm »
I have never found a well organised grupetto at the back of an audax. I'm sure it may have happened but not on the audaxes I have done. I too have mostly ridden along side one other or on my own. I can only think of a couple of occasions where I have ridden with more than this.

One of the things I really like about audax is the freedom to ride on your own or in a group as you please. If I'm having a dip in morale it's generally best for everyone if I ride on my own for a bit!

A grupetto quite often formed around me and a couple of friends, this year on several occasions during audaxes.

Martin

Re: No stop strategy
« Reply #49 on: 08 November, 2017, 08:01:25 pm »
I think I spent 31 hours off the bike (out of 86) on PBP although only about 15 of those were attempting to sleep; I bounced every non sleep control after 300k as I CNBA with the long queues for non veggie enticing food, sleep was more important than food (which you could pretty much pick up anywhere en route)

the pop up snap stops in peoples' front gardens were superb (those that were still there in the p11sing rain)