"Everyday" tubulars?

[EdinburghFixed]

Wisely or unwisely, I picked up a deep carbon aero wheel the other day (it was a very tasty price, I think I could probably sell it on without losing out).

No, I'm not fast enough to warrant it so it will certainly be 99% about the looks but I've always wanted a rediculous aero wheel and had some xmas money to spend, sue me 

Unfortunately, I know nothing at all about tubular tyres, other than they are a royal faff because you have to glue them on and then perform heart surgery to fix any flats.

I went for the wheel 'naked' so that I could choose a tyre and learn how to fasten it on. I'd welcome any opinion on:

- glue or tape, given that it's a carbon rim.
- what sort of tyre is sensible* for something that will probably end up on PBP qualifiers (if not the most important ones)

* perhaps I should say, "least unsensible"?

Many thanks!

[tatanab]

I use Tufo tubs on a bike that is seldom used.  I wanted least inconvenience.  I recall sticking tubs on with cement, and the associated mess, and so used tape this time.

I used Tufo Extreme tape because I wanted the strongest given my previous aversion to tape.

poshbikes.com

I've linked Fatbirds simply because they came up easiest on a Google search.  There are cheaper Tufo tubs than those shown here, and Fatbirds list the Extreme tape as well as Tufo sealant.  The plan is you inject the sealant into a new tub and just ride.  I do not think Tufos are intended to be repairable, unlike other tubs.  There is also a nice video clip on the Tufo website to show how to easily fit the tape, I just cannot see it for the moment. TUFO - TUBULAR TYRES

So - advantages of Tufo seem to be least faffing about.  Tape them on and throw them away if they puncture.

[Maverick]

+1 for Tufo Extreme tape. Minimal faff maximum security

[rafletcher]

I never got the hang of the sealant, always gumming up my valves, but I had the "tubular clinchers" which probably are not meant to be repaired. I'm sure their other "true" tubs are just like others to repair.

[robbo6]

No they're not. Rip the base tape off a Tufo and there are no stitches to undo, and I  believe, although I have never cut one open, the tube is stuck to the canvas. If the hole is too big for the sealant the tyre has had it. Which has never happened to me in seven years.

[robbo6]

...There is also a nice video clip on the Tufo website to show how to easily fit the tape, I just cannot see it for the moment. TUFO - TUBULAR TYRES...

Video clips under "INSTRUCTION" then "Installation..." or "Application...".

[Lucky]

- what sort of tyre is sensible* for something that will probably end up on PBP qualifiers (if not the most important ones)

I'd suggest the Vittoria Rubino Pro Tubular. I've not used it myself, but if it's anything like the clincher version, you won't be worrying about fixing punctures. Although be aware that Vittoria tubs use latex tubes inside, so you'll need to pump them up before each ride.

Tufo tubs tend to puncture easily, due to their construction (there is no tube inside them; instead the casing is impregnated with butyl rubber); hence Tufo advertising their sealant as a preventative measure. Vittoria Corsa and Conti Competition are lovely to ride and reasonably puncture resistant, but both wear very fast.

I always carry a can of Vittoria Pit Stop tyre sealant when riding on tubs, and have needed it once, to repair a punctured Tufo 215. Quick and easy, and the tyre has been good since.

[Lucky]

Aargh! Is it really necessary for the furum software to censor the P word?! 

[LittleWheelsandBig]

AFAIR, it is the only word that is. Consider it a quirk of the forum and move on.

[Lucky]

I had wondered why everyone on the forum was always so consistent with the asterisks in that word...

All is now clear! 

[clarion]

You can get round it, or you could censor it in your own way, as I do, or you could mention Unscheduled Deflation Incidents (UDIs), or live with it.

[Tewdric]

Unless there's been a dramatic change in tub tape in the 8 years since I last used tubs, use glue.

Park tools have a decent guide here:

Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Tubular Tire Gluing (sew up).

I can't think of a less suitable wheel for audax that a deep section carbon rim fitted with a tub, except perhaps a full disc so you get blown off as well as battered and driven insane when you p*nct*r*.  This is probably a good reason to give it a go!

[EdinburghFixed]

That's the spirit 

But then, I'm already committing a grevious sin by riding a recumbulator... what's one more to add to the list!

In the worst case I can always keep it for chasing roadies round central Edinburgh and use the current boring 32h box-rim for longer rides

Thanks for the links - very useful. Glue looks like it could be phenomenally messy (although the Park chap makes it look effortless).

[Ian H]

Glue shouldn't be messy. It's used much like an impact adhesive: coat tub and rim and allow to dry, then another thin layer on the rim and allow nearly to dry (this layer makes positioning a bit easier).

[giropaul]

My experience, from when I trained on tubs (don't train or use tubs now!) was that the better the tub the better it fared. I used to use part-worn ex-team issue tubs such as Vittoria CXs, even the setas, and they would be much less trouble than "training" tubs.
A mate went through a whole winter on Clement setas, wwithout a single visitation.

[EdinburghFixed]

I'm not fast enough for this to make me any faster - moving average of under 20mph even on the commute - but it will look excellent on the CityCyclingEdinburgh cafe scene!

And it makes a truly fantastic rumble (which is not caused by me running it flat, I just didn't have a valve extender yet when I took the pic!)

[Jakob]

My rear tubular had finally given up (latex sealer could no longer deal with the gashes), so I had to replace it today. I love the feeling of tubulars, I hate the effort required to change them. Luckily they last a couple of years (Conti Gatorskins 22mm).
Just getting the bloody things off requires several swear words and if the tyre wasn't ruined before hand, it was when I was done yanking it off.
I then found that I could no longer open my tin of tub-glue. . I was certain that I also had a small tube of Vittoria cement somewhere and as I no longer ride track, one coat would have do to...but I could not find it. Rummaging around in box'o'stuff a bit more, I then found a packet of Tufo Tub Tape that I never used. Quick test showed that the glue was still good (It's at least 5 years old!) and while getting the tub-tape off the rims is a real nightmare, it beats walking to work.

I've had the new tub inflated for a week in a vain hope to stretch it a bit, but first 3 tries were still a failure. Continental now advises against manually stretching the tub using feet/hands/knees, but there was no way I was going to get it on otherwise...and it slipped on rather effortless!.

Why tubs on a commuter?. Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time!. (Actually, I found some really cool old-ish NOS mavic rims that I just had to use) and it fits within the fixed ethos: almost zero maintenance required. I have to top up the tires every two weeks or so., oil the chain every 3 months and erhh...that's about it.

[Veloman]

.......
- what sort of tyre is sensible* for something that will probably end up on PBP qualifiers (if not the most important ones)
.......

I suppose the obvious answer to that question is a tyre that can be repaired in the middle of the night in the rain!  So a tyre with an inner tube that can be repaired (or replaced) easily and secured on the wheel safely.

If you have that unplanned deflation or deflations of those important PBP qualifiers (which include 600 ride) how many spare tubs were you planning on carrying?

I recall using tubs on a daily basis and having to ride with more caution after the unplanned deflation until I could get home and 'do a proper job' on the tub I had used to replace the damaged tub.

I wish you luck as I think you will need it!

[Jakob]

Apparently triatheletes leave a patch opposite the valvestem unglued, so that they can quickly remove the tub and mount the new one. While this is not recommended for doing crits, it's apparently more than safe enough for them.
Further, most regular punctures can be fixed with a tub-sealant. You add maybe 5-6 grams of weight for pretty damn good puncture protection.

Also for long distance, I would imagine that the extra comfort would be worth it?.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Any less-securely glued areas on tubs significantly increases rolling resistance.

[Jakob]

Any less-securely glued areas on tubs significantly increases rolling resistance.

That doesn't make sense to me. Why?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Because you get squirming between the tub base tape and the rim - hence black staining of the base tape. There is a reason why track tubs used to be shellacked on. The rolling resistance was lower than softer road glues. Most glues nowadays dry hard and firm, so are pretty low rolling resistance.

[Jakob]

Hmm. If a 2 inch strip of non-glued rim would cause any significant increase in rolling resistance, I doubt that they would do it.

FWIW, I was always told that they used shellac on track tubs because it was more secure and that (old) road-glue could cause the tubs to roll off.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Do low speed roll down tests and report your results.

I did, with Vittoria Corsa CX tyres on rear wheels, 1 fully glued, the other with a gap. After that test, I only used track glue on my road wheels. I wasn't strong enough to waste any energy in excess drag.

[Jakob]

Fair enough.