Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility

[sojournermike]

Joe Friel would class you as a classic athlete who has swapped intensity for steady state and will therefore see a 3w per year fall in power.  The only way to reverse that and maintain the speed seems to be intensive strength work and power work.

There are increasing numbers of men in the USA who are using testosterone patches as they head into the 60s and 70s to help maintain that muscle power.  Whether it will catch on here is difficult to tell.

I'm sure it will catch on if they become easily obtainable. Perhaps if suppliers would send them to every household with a resident over 50 male by mistake then there would be a surge in take up...

[chrisbainbridge]

As someone who does not race but wants to be as fit as possible they are quite tempting.

[giropaul]

More than one veteran cyclists in the USA have also been issued with doping bans following tests that show exogenous ( not produced naturally in the person’s body) testosterone.

[sojournermike]

As someone who does not race but wants to be as fit as possible they are quite tempting.

You can possibly find them Chris, but I understand there are some real questions about safety in the medium to longer term. Principally about impact on progression of heart disease.

[mattc]

As someone who does not race but wants to be as fit as possible they are quite tempting.

"fit"
or "doped"?

It's a fine line. Your choice!

[sojournermike]

As someone who does not race but wants to be as fit as possible they are quite tempting.

"fit"
or "doped"?

It's a fine line. Your choice!

Or honest

[sojournermike]

As someone who does not race but wants to be as fit as possible they are quite tempting.

"fit"
or "doped"?

It's a fine line. Your choice!

Or honest

And on that theme - is 4W/kg too much to ask for over 50?

[Greenbank]

4W/kg for how long? FTP?

[LEE]

As someone who does not race but wants to be as fit as possible they are quite tempting.

"fit"
or "doped"?

It's a fine line. Your choice!

Or honest

And on that theme - is 4W/kg too much to ask for over 50?

No, it's my goal and I'm 55. 

I was around 2.8W/Kg 11 months ago (based on 1 hour FTP Watts) now I'm 3.5W/Kg.
My current FTP is 278W and I may be able to squeeze out >290W if I dedicate myself to it for a year (It's sooo painful).
My weight has dropped from 94.8Kg to 80.3Kg since January and that's by far the biggest contributing factor to the whole equation, and where the biggest gains are available now my FTP gains are starting to plateau.

Basically I need to get to 290W FTP and down to 72.3Kg (11st 6lb or thereabouts).  That's not impossible it's just a year of bloody hard work (structured training with Power)  and dedication (Intermittent fasting for weight loss).   11st 7lb is actually a healthy weight for me rather than a crazy target.

I'm not sure I'll ever get there but 3.5W/Kg feels bloody great out on the road, effortless at times, so 3.6...3.7 will feel even better.

The first step on the road to 4W/Kg is establishing your current W/Kg and then setting out your 2 goals, realistic power increase target and realistic weight loss target.

Try to ignore the mind-bending fact that Tour de France winners are generally >6W/kg !!!!!!!

[Chris S]

I forget how tall you are LEE, but my recollection is you're about the same height as me, which leads me to think you're aiming for a body fat percentage <10%?
I'll be watching your progress with interest. I'm not convinced I could get my BF even to 10 let alone below it!

I've been considering what a realistic target would be for me, and I'd kinda settled on 3W/Kg because I doubt I can get my weight below 75Kg, and 225W seems a reasonable figure given that I'm 195 currently, and feel pretty unfit.

I doubt I want/can put up with such long-term levels of training discomfort, TBH.

[zigzag]

my dad is 64 and with the structured training managed to raise his power from 2.9 to 3.7w/kg in about year and a half (he's started cycling at 60). his target is also 4w/kg by next summer which i believe he can achieve.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

About 4 W/kg is doable (at least it was the last time I tried) but it is a very painful process to get there. Frankly I haven't been arsed to do that hard work for years.

[dim]

As someone who does not race but wants to be as fit as possible they are quite tempting.

"fit"
or "doped"?

It's a fine line. Your choice!

Or honest

And on that theme - is 4W/kg too much to ask for over 50?

No, it's my goal and I'm 55. 

I was around 2.8W/Kg 11 months ago (based on 1 hour FTP Watts) now I'm 3.5W/Kg.
My current FTP is 278W and I may be able to squeeze out >290W if I dedicate myself to it for a year (It's sooo painful).
My weight has dropped from 94.8Kg to 80.3Kg since January and that's by far the biggest contributing factor to the whole equation, and where the biggest gains are available now my FTP gains are starting to plateau.

Basically I need to get to 290W FTP and down to 72.3Kg (11st 6lb or thereabouts).  That's not impossible it's just a year of bloody hard work (structured training with Power)  and dedication (Intermittent fasting for weight loss).   11st 7lb is actually a healthy weight for me rather than a crazy target.

I'm not sure I'll ever get there but 3.5W/Kg feels bloody great out on the road, effortless at times, so 3.6...3.7 will feel even better.

The first step on the road to 4W/Kg is establishing your current W/Kg and then setting out your 2 goals, realistic power increase target and realistic weight loss target.

Try to ignore the mind-bending fact that Tour de France winners are generally >6W/kg !!!!!!!

3.5W/kg .... that's very good ....

I'm 57 and was 104kg when I started cycling 2 yrs ago and I'm now 75Kg (I have lost 29kg = 4.56 Stone)...

I have cycled 12,887.9 km so far this year with an elevation gain of 71,291 m

Strava calculates my watts/kg at 1.72 w/kg .... I don't regard myself as slow as I check my segment times with others who have cycled them on the same day ....

so you must be very fast?

[sojournermike]

That's all encouraging. Thanks!

 I'm 'only' 52 (almost) and currently at least 2.9 at 81kg. 75kg I'd pretty achievable. I used to run quickly at 71kg and I'm 1.85 or 1.86m tall. May as well give it a go, if work and commuting leaves time to train.

[LEE]

3.5W/kg .... that's very good ....

I'm 57 and was 104kg when I started cycling 2 yrs ago and I'm now 75Kg (I have lost 29kg = 4.56 Stone)...

I have cycled 12,887.9 km so far this year with an elevation gain of 71,291 m

Strava calculates my watts/kg at 1.72 w/kg .... I don't regard myself as slow as I check my segment times with others who have cycled them on the same day ....

so you must be very fast?

Not really.  I wouldn't trust Strava estimates for FTP because that means your FTP is 129 Watts which is ridiculously low.
Strava is quite accurate at estimating power over a segment but FTP is just not the same.

There's really no accurate way of estimating FTP without  getting on a stationary bike with a power meter...then going max effort for a decent amount of time. 
You simply can't go max effort on the road for 20 minutes. You may think you have done....but you haven't.  At the end of an FTP test you'll realise that you've been kidding yourself about maximum effort for years.

[LEE]

I just bumped my FTP from 278 to 286* since October.

Did a 20min threshold test this morning and managed to hang on to 301 Watts average for the whole 20 minutes (I'd set 300W as a target).

*60min FTP is calculated as 95% of your 20 minute threshold.  It's rare that anyone does a full 60min FTP because it's so hard mentally as well as physically.

Today's test was by far the toughest thing I've ever done physically, I managed to judge it perfectly so I was just about able to fall off the bike at the end without hurting myself.

I'm 7.5% up on power since February, 2.8% up on power since October.  My weight is down 10.6% over the year so it's been a real success I think. 

Just referring back to the OP, I'm 55 and I wasn't a slouch to start with so I hope this helps convince other "wrinklies" that there are significant gains to be had*

*Assuming you aren't already well-trained, powerful and skinny of course.  My background is Audax rather than speed/power so I had plenty of room to increase my power (and reduce my belly).

[DuncanM]

That's a good gain in a short space of time, given where you were starting.
And 7.5% up on power since Feb is really impressive. 

[LEE]

That's a good gain in a short space of time, given where you were starting.
And 7.5% up on power since Feb is really impressive. 

It's up 28% since Feb 2016 (when I did my very first assessment).

A lot of that gain is learning what to expect though, setting a realistic target power, and good pacing (it's very easy to start too hard as it doesn't feel all that tough for the first 4-5 minutes*).

*The final 4-5 minutes are truly brutal though.  A 20 minute FTP test isn't the worst 20 minutes of your life....it's the worst 9 minutes of your life..and then the worst 8...7....6..etc

[JohnR]

Agree entirely with Lee's comment above about ftp test being worst last few minutes, did one on gym bike last couple of week ago now, assumed I was about 200 watts so set off keeping up 200 watts but never really got over this as the 20 minutes wore on it got harder to maintain (quads hurting). I finished with possibly some more to give but was happy to accept 190 watts ftp for my first one.

Set up my zones for workloading and did last 2 weeks based on this and felt this was realistic. However, since this week I read a blog from a French guy who mentioned to activate your glutes (I consider myself to be weak in this area) by rocking your pelvis forwards instead of vertical by a few degrees when on the bike. Well I tried this on Sunday on the gym bike and wow, what a light bulb moment! I was running 200 watts for 30 minutes at 100 rpm with hr at around 160-165 bpm and felt great (quads not hurting, hardly noticing effort, but glutes feeling as though they are working a little bit).

This has got me thinking that all this time I was on the gym bike, I was not riding the same as on my bike as I got a power meter fitted a couple of weeks ago and after my 190 watts ftp found I was going up hills and putting out 216 watts and maintaining this for long periods of time (unlike on the gym bike). It seems as though the gym bike was only getting my quads stronger but I was using my glutes when on the bike.

Bottom line is due to this revelation I am going to do another test in the new position on the gym bike as last night's overs and unders proved very easy keeping watts down to 216.
I'm 63 in December and started riding again 5 years ago and am trying to up my ftp, so far now going better than ever.

[LEE]

The lack of fine adjustment and the huge Q-factor (distance between pedals) on our Gym bikes means I can't get anywhere near my normal power.  It feels like I'm trying to pedal a car.

Wattbikes, while not perfect, do allow me to get a position closer to my usual bike.

There's clearly no beating the latest Smart Trainers, such as the Wahoo Kikr, that utilise your own bike and are as accurate as a Wattbike.  The problem I have with that is the low motivation to use a home trainer.  There are people waiting for me at 06:30 on Wednesdays.  It's a bloody horrid ride there in the dark and cold but the group environment must buy me another 20% effort.

[simonp]

Good work Lee. My FTP is somewhere in the 220 ish range so I have some catching up to do!

Might do a test tomorrow as I’ve had a few days off due to travel so should be fresh.

[LEE]

Good work Lee. My FTP is somewhere in the 220 ish range so I have some catching up to do!

Might do a test tomorrow as I’ve had a few days off due to travel so should be fresh.

I'll swap some of my power for some of your lightness

[dim]

I done my first Sportive a few weeks ago .... It was only a 50Km, but I gave it my best the whole way .... I was 6% in Zone 3, 84% Zone 4 and 9% in zone 5

https://www.strava.com/activities/1281665044/overview

Strava calculates my ride at 1,93 W/Kg so thats pretty shite compared to what I have read on this thread 

[simonp]

Good work Lee. My FTP is somewhere in the 220 ish range so I have some catching up to do!

Might do a test tomorrow as I’ve had a few days off due to travel so should be fresh.

I'll swap some of my power for some of your lightness

You’ve not seen me in a while have you!

Currently I’m 83kg. I blame taking up rowing.

[jiberjaber]

I done my first Sportive a few weeks ago .... It was only a 50Km, but I gave it my best the whole way .... I was 6% in Zone 3, 84% Zone 4 and 9% in zone 5

https://www.strava.com/activities/1281665044/overview

Strava calculates my ride at 1,93 W/Kg so thats pretty shite compared to what I have read on this thread 

I'd check your settings for HR zones and weight in Strava.