Boris Johnson "After Rome"

[spindrift]

my understanding is that the only people making money out of the congestion zone charging are the operators,

Garbage.

[Adam]

Another day at the office for Johnson, his key Olympics adviser resigns in an insider dealing scandal.

Ah, so when you posted that, you weren't actually stating that the adviser had resigned from his Olympics post, and it also turns out it was nothing to do with insider dealing or a scandal.

Anything else that you've got wrong?

[Manotea]

my understanding is that the only people making money out of the congestion zone charging are the operators,

Garbage.

Facts please.

[spindrift]

Google is your friend:

What is the revenue from the scheme used for?

Last year, drivers handed over £252.4m in congestion charge payments to TfL, a fractional fall on the previous 12 months and just under 10 per cent of its total income. Running the scheme cost £130.1m and, when other costs such as administration and depreciation were taken into account, TfL was left with a net income of £89.1 m from the charges.

The organisation is required by law to reinvest its "profit" into public transport in the hope it will help create a virtuous circle, tempting former drivers back on to buses. All in all, the money is a welcome fillip for the system.

Did you really think the charge didn't deliver?

[Wascally Weasel]

Interestingly, of the stakeholders consulted, Kensington & Chelsea council were not in favour of withdrawing the zone (they were in favour of changes to charging but not to remove the zone).

Of the party groupings, the Green & Labour GLA groups voted against removal, the Conservatives and Liberals voted for it.

[Manotea]

From Wiki "The initial operating revenues from the congestion charge did not reach the levels that were originally expected. Within six months of the start of the scheme, the reduction in traffic had been such that TfL were predicting a £65 million revenue shortfall."

The bottom line is the scheme is only solvent because a) the charge was raised from 5 to 8 pounds, b) the income from penalty fines for late payment, and c) traffic levels recoverying to pre-congestion charge levels.

This isn't a congestion charge, its a tax.

[spindrift]

Hurrah! Your Google works! So, you concede revenue is raised and the Western Extension would have raised more money for public transport? Ken was derided, the Standard carried scare stories of plunging property prices and gridlock that turned out to be garbage, other world cities are set to follow London's lead, and Johnson undoes all the good work based on a survey of less than half of one per cent of Londoners.

[spindrift]

Boris Johnson today faced calls to replace David Ross as his representative on the London Olympics organising committee after the multimillionaire businessman quit Carphone Warehouse following an admission that he had used a large slice of his personal holding in the company to guarantee personal loans.

Despite heavy coverage of the story, the Mayor has yet to issue a statement. This is rather embarrassing in itself, because the tawdry Tory supporter has donated £140,000 to the Party in recent years.

So, does Boris simply fear another failed appointment, or could he be waiting for a call from on high?

[Manotea]

Hurrah! Your Google works! So, you concede revenue is raised and the Western Extension would have raised more money for public transport? Ken was derided, the Standard carried scare stories of plunging property prices and gridlock that turned out to be garbage, other world cities are set to follow London's lead, and Johnson undoes all the good work based on a survey of less than half of one per cent of Londoners.

What I concede is that I should have said the 'main' people making money out of the scheme were the operators, rather than the only.

Its worth noting that the scheme was originally touted as being to raise 200m. Years later we're looking at operational costs taking >50% of revenues (for running an automated turnpike?) and a profit of only 80m after a 60% price hike. I guess you can make money on anything if you have monoply powers.

To be clear, there was a case for the central congestion zone, but the case for the western extension is much weaker. The larger the congestion zone, the more people live within it and so are empowered to use their cars to drive within London. Where's the incentive to use public transport there? The western extension actually undermines the effectiveness of the central zone. Also, the more people live within the congestion zone, the more have to pay the residents charge. Like I said, its simply a tax.

[Psychler]

Electorally, he's charmed the motons, including black cab thugs drivers

And so is that. Some might says its quite an offensive opinion.

[/quote]

.... and being a black cab driver but and neither a thug or a moron [as you refer to all black cab drivers in another thread, Clarion], I do find this opinion offensive

[Regulator]

Electorally, he's charmed the motons, including black cab thugs drivers

And so is that. Some might says its quite an offensive opinion.

.... and being a black cab driver but and neither a thug or a moron [as you refer to all black cab drivers in another thread, Clarion], I do find this opinion offensive



[/quote]


To be fair to Clarion, psychler, my experience of black cab drivers is very similar to his.  You may not be a thug or a moron - but unfortunately, it would appear to many of us that a sizeable propotion of your fellow cabbies are. 

I experience moronic and thuggish behaviour by black cabs on the roads every day - whether cycling, driving or walking.

[clarion]

I accept that I probably used a very broad brush with that comment, and some cab drivers are not guilty of the sort of behaviour I mention, but I can only think of three occasions when I have had a positive experience:  One cab driver anticipated well, and paused to let me out (which he should have done anyway, following HC); one cab driver talking to our ride leader on a Southwark Cyclists ride (he was a friend and also a cyclist), and a cab driver commenting favourably, and joking with us about the tandem as we were riding and keeping pace between junctions along the South Circular (he was an ex-cyclist).

On the other side of the balance, when I cycle to work, I experience the most frighteningly boorish and downright dangerous behaviour from black cabs.  Yes, I get the odd bus driver being a pillock, but, in the main, they drive pretty well, considering they're piloting a house through the traffic.  Van drivers?  Yes, they're a very mixed bunch, with some horrendously bad driving.  But Cab drivers are the ones who are pretty consistently bad, offensive when challenged, and (quite correctly) tell me there's no point in reporting them, as no action will be taken.

[clarion]

I would say that removing the Western Extension; cancelling the Venezuela deal; making black cab MoTs annual; interfering with an ongoing Police investigation, and losing advisors and deputies l, r & c counts as 'really badly screwed up'.

IIRC he has lost two. Therefore it can't be l,r & c. Please pick two of the above.

..d

OK, so at the time of writing it was two deputies and one Advisor.  Looks like another Advisor now, so that'll be four

When was he elected again?  That's a bit of an attrition rate...

[Jakob]

I accept that I probably used a very broad brush with that comment, and some cab drivers are not guilty of the sort of behaviour I mention, but I can only think of three occasions when I have had a positive experience:  One cab driver anticipated well, and paused to let me out (which he should have done anyway, following HC); one cab driver talking to our ride leader on a Southwark Cyclists ride (he was a friend and also a cyclist), and a cab driver commenting favourably, and joking with us about the tandem as we were riding and keeping pace between junctions along the South Circular (he was an ex-cyclist).

On the other side of the balance, when I cycle to work, I experience the most frighteningly boorish and downright dangerous behaviour from black cabs.  Yes, I get the odd bus driver being a pillock, but, in the main, they drive pretty well, considering they're piloting a house through the traffic.  Van drivers?  Yes, they're a very mixed bunch, with some horrendously bad driving.  But Cab drivers are the ones who are pretty consistently bad, offensive when challenged, and (quite correctly) tell me there's no point in reporting them, as no action will be taken.

In my 15 years in London, it was completely the opposite. There was the odd idiot, but in general, they were the most professional and proficient drivers on the road and compared to others, often the most courteous. I was far more likely get space for a lane change from a cab when signaling, than I would from other drivers.
 Bus drivers improved dramatically over the last few years, but prior to that were far the worst drivers in London.

[Pancho]

I want to know what Boris has done to Spinners to so offend him. This seems a very personal vendetta.

[cometworm]

Sorry to take this thread back on topic, but I've just watched the first episode (as part of my in-bed-with-cold-and-bbc-iplayer series) and it's exceptionally good. Some of the best factual stuff I've seen from the beeb in some time.

To watch this programme and still think that Boris is a bumbling idiot takes an amazing degree of confirmation bias. He's balanced, eloquent, funny, and very sympathetic whether interviewing batty old fascists or islamic historians.

[clarion]

Which makes his record all the more sinister.  He does that stuff/says those things deliberately

[woollypigs]

yes I agree with you, cometworm (GWS), I'm watching the second episode atm.

[Manotea]

Which makes his record all the more sinister.  He does that stuff/says those things deliberately

Or maybe, even more sinisterly, people choose to deliberately misrepresent/misinterpret him

Oh, I see, that's called politics....

[cometworm]

yes I agree with you, cometworm (GWS), I'm watching the second episode atm.

I have some proofreading to do, and then I'm starting the second episode as well.

[spindrift]

I want to know what Boris has done to Spinners to so offend him. This seems a very personal vendetta.

I've listed what he's done/said that appals me. It's not personal, I think he was jolly funny on Room 101, check it out on Youtube. I don't hate Johnson. I love London.

[clarion]

I don't hate Johnson.  I don't love London.  But I don't think even London deserves his level of folly.

[Regulator]

I want to know what Boris has done to Spinners to so offend him. This seems a very personal vendetta.

Perhaps it's homoerotic displacement?

[clarion]

I want to know what Boris has done to Spinners to so offend him. This seems a very personal vendetta.

Perhaps it's homoerotic displacement?

 

[Regulator]

I want to know what Boris has done to Spinners to so offend him. This seems a very personal vendetta.

Perhaps it's homoerotic displacement?

 

It would explain the obsessive nature of his dislike though...