Panniers - Carradice or Ortlieb?

[clarion]

Ah.  So more bags.  Are they Ortliebs?

[Wowbagger]

We have used Carradice for about 5 years.

This week, we took delivery of a pair of Ortlieb back-roller plus.

They are vastly superior to the Carradice in every way.

1. The Ortlieb method of adjusting the hooks to fit the rack requires no tools. It's simplicity itself. With the Carradice, you have to use a cross-headed screwdriver and the screw then holds itself in place by attempting to bore a hole in a metal plate. After a while, this not-very-good-quality screw starts to round off at the head end.

2. The Ortlieb are lighter.

3. The Ortlieb are waterproof. Carradice keep the water out for a while, but not for ever. Of course, bags designed for clothes recycling can eliminate water. NB We haven't yet used the Ortlieb in a prolonged downpour, but others have spoken of their uncompromising waterproofness. I have a recollection that, on our arrival at our B & B in Fort Augustus on our LEJOG 4 years ago, everything we possessed, having spent all day in the Carradice panniers in the pouring rain, was wet through. I don't think we had been especially careful with plastic bags.

4. The Ortlieb are as voluminous as the Carradice rear, but much bigger than the Carradice front. However we tried the Carradice rear on the front of the tandem last week. It worked - just - but the ground clearance was so low that I had to corner more slowly than I otherwise would, else we grounded the panniers. The Ortlieb have much better ground clearance, and extra luggage just makes them taller. I don't anticipate any problem with the centre of gravity being too high.

5. The Ortlieb delivery box bore a large message "Made in Germany" on it. Admittedly, there were no personalised messages from Hildebrand, Heidi or Gretel on them, but that doesn't mean that they weren't made with loving care.

6. Once, the night before a tour, I had to sew up our Carradice pannier because a seam had come undone.

7. The one great advantage that the Carradice panniers have over the Ortlieb is that quirky Britishness - being not quite top quality but wearing that as a badge of pride.

We also have a very large set of Altura panniers. Although massive and having given us no problem so far (although their very massiveness may have been a contributory factor in Mrs. Wow's Danish tumble) their method of affixing to racks is just not very good, and they won't fit at all on the tandem's industrial-strength Thorn-designed front rack.

Andrij, of this parish, tells that the Ortlieb Plus, which are about £30 more than the Ortlieb Classic, contain no PVC and therefore are environmentally more acceptable. The Classic also have an inferior fixing system which requires allen keys.

The cheapest place we could find for the Ortlieb Back-roller Plus was Spa Cycles, at £106 per pair delivered. I ordered on Monday evening and they arrived Wednesday morning.

[YahudaMoon]

Don't get the yello Ortilieb ones and don a yello hi viz !

[Polar Bear]

I bought my first Ortliebs almost by accident as they were hobson's choice at the time. I came off the bike in a ford. My pannier full of clothes and my phone and mp3 was fully submersed for over a minute. Contents completely dry. There is IMO only one option:

ORTLIEB.

[Deano]

Carradice.  Three years, no issues. Including springs and summers and autumns and winters in Northern Britain.

I looked at the stern, plastic, serious, Ortlieb items with their harsh German lines and impersonal colours.

Then I looked at the Carradice items, made in homely Lancashire with strokable cotton duck. Tough, reliable, beautiful.  And with a lifetime repair service.

I suppose it comes down to a philosophical decision, as there's not much between them in terms of quality and price.  I went for Carradice.

[Doosh]

7. The one great advantage that the Carradice panniers have over the Ortlieb is that quirky Britishness - being not quite top quality but wearing that as a badge of pride.

This. Although I wouldn't really call it an advantage.

I have the big altura dry lines and can't fault them so far, if I were well-off I'd take the Ortliebs in a second, although am I right in thinking they don't come any bigger than 40L?

[YahudaMoon]

@ PolarBear. What you doing in a ford and coming off your bike for  lol ?

Ive never been in a ford and I don't plan to be going in one anytime soon though I have heard stories about audaxers having no choice other than bailing out.

Maybe a wet suit could come in useful if the Ortlieb is the extremities your looking for



I wonder what there like for cycling in ?

[Wowbagger]

7. The one great advantage that the Carradice panniers have over the Ortlieb is that quirky Britishness - being not quite top quality but wearing that as a badge of pride.

This. Although I wouldn't really call it an advantage.

This was irony.

I have the big altura dry lines and can't fault them so far, if I were well-off I'd take the Ortliebs in a second, although am I right in thinking they don't come any bigger than 40L?

That's the advertised size, but I think they could be persuaded to take more if you wanted them to. We haven't tested this, but they look at least as big as the Carradice, whose rear panniers are advertised as 54 litres.

[Kim]

I have the big altura dry lines and can't fault them so far, if I were well-off I'd take the Ortliebs in a second, although am I right in thinking they don't come any bigger than 40L?

I've recently switched from Altura Orkneys (a slightly more rugged version of the Dryline) to Ortlieb back-rollers, primarily because the Altura hangs slightly lower and fouls the disc brake caliper on my recumbent.  As the luggage rack is suspended, this was wearing a small hole in the pannier with use.

The Ortliebs are significantly smaller, but I've also switched from a cheap rectangular synthetic sleeping bag to a proper down one, which has freed up about the same volume.  I'm also of the front-and-rear-panniers-for-camping school of thought, which is much more elegant bike-handling wise that trying to cram a full touring load onto the rear rack.

I've stitched up the damaged Altura, and they will hopefully work okay on barakta's Trice (which can't take front panniers, so will benefit from the larger volume), if she ever gets it.  They're good panniers, just not quite as Germanly engineered as the Ortliebs.

[fuaran]

What about Vaude panniers? Made in Germany and apparently properly waterproof.
I see their Aqua Back panniers are 48l, so a bit more than Ortlieb. Or there is a version with an external pocket. Though a bit more expensive and heavier than Ortlieb.

[mark]

What about Vaude panniers? Made in Germany and apparently properly waterproof.
I see their Aqua Back panniers are 48l, so a bit more than Ortlieb. Or there is a version with an external pocket. Though a bit more expensive and heavier than Ortlieb.

I toured for a while with Ortliebs (not the roll top) in back and Vaude Roadmasters with rain covers in front. My Scotland tour demonstrated that the Vaudes with raincovers were *almost* as waterproof as the Ortliebs, and almost as good in every other respect as the Ortliebs. Being almost as good as Ortliebs is quite good, but I've sold the Vaudes and the next tour will be undertaken with Ortliebs front, rear and on the handlebars.

[clarion]

Ortliebs - the slit opening makes tham hard to pack/unpack/rummage in (which, of course, you need to do more)

- Roll top takes much longer to open/close than two Fastex.  And reduces the available space quite a bit.  Carradice WYSIWYG.

[Wowbagger]

What about Vaude panniers? Made in Germany and apparently properly waterproof.
I see their Aqua Back panniers are 48l, so a bit more than Ortlieb. Or there is a version with an external pocket. Though a bit more expensive and heavier than Ortlieb.

Auntie Helen is a user of Vaude panniers and regards them as being "up-market" from Ortlieb.

[clarion]

I've had some Vaude kit in the past, and I thought it was well-made and a good design.  Never tested the water resistance.

[hatler]

When Paul Smith was at Bike Plus I think he took the decision to stop stocking Vaude on the grounds that they were pretty much like for like with Ortlieb wrt quality, likely buyer, price etc etc and that he was wanting to rationalise stockroom space. One had to go and Ortlieb was the better known name.

[Ariadne]

Ortlieb, Ortlieb, Ortlieb. Your stuff will NEVER get wet. I've even used a front pannier as a bucket to soak clothes in, and not a drop leaked out.

[Polar Bear]

Ortliebs - the slit opening makes tham hard to pack/unpack/rummage in (which, of course, you need to do more)

I really don't understand your issue.   

I know what I have packed in each pannier and have a visualisation in my head of how I've packed it.  I simply delve straight in, usually without looking and extract the item(s) desired.   I can only imagine that you are more like Mlle PB who doesn't pack in an orderly manner.   I've lost count of the number of times she goes to the wrong pannier to get a fleece or her jacket for instance whilst we're out on the road.   My road clothing including jacket is always in the left rear along with sun cream, Tilley hat my mattress and pillow which live at the bottom of the bag.

Oops. I digress...   

[clarion]

Aye, but I can reach behind me to my (admittedly Altura) pannier that I have packed for the weekend, and put my hand on either knife, lighter, etc etc because they are in a different pocket.  If they were in with the stove, gas, pans, plumbers mat, windshield, packets of soup etc, it'd be harder.  Some things are small, and can make their way underneath other stuff.  It's just a fact of motion.  And the smaller things are hte ones you are most likely to need quickly.

[Polar Bear]

Just put your cutlery in a plastic bag within the pannier.  We do.   

[Cudzoziemiec]

But are they made by Germans?  We know that Carradice are made by Ladies from Lancashire.

I didn't think Yorkshiremen distinguished between Germans and Lancastrians. 

Don't mention the war! The War of the Roses, that is!

[clarion]

There is a definite hierarchy of prejudice oop north.  And we will unite in our hatred of savvernaaaaaz.

[Ariadne]

I agree about the pockets, but I just have a little bag that sits on top, inside. And I have my bar bag for money etc. The barbag's just a Revolution one, mind you - I could get an Ortlieb one but I like the size and style of the Revolution.

[clarion]

So what happens if you need to ride underwater, like so many Ortlieb-fanciers suggest?

Your valuables will get damp

[Ariadne]

Thats' true! I put my phone in a pannier if it's heavy rain - and everything else in the bar bag in a plastic bag. It only gets mildly damp - sort of 'Carradice damp', if you will ...

[Polar Bear]

So what happens if you need to ride underwater, like so many Ortlieb-fanciers suggest?

Your valuables will get damp

Naturally when bog snorkelling one places ones valuables in one of one's wonderfully-waterproof Ortlieb panners and ensures that one closes it correctly    

An Ortlieb barbag is waterproof to falling water.   Rising water would be a different matter.   I happily stow my phone and the dslr in the Ortlieb barbag even when rain ensues.