Difficulty in installing tyres? Chat

[mattc]

Moderator's note:
Please contribute to Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE when you have suitable comparisons.  General chat about tyre/rim combination goes here.

Generally I've found wire beaded tyres to be more of a pain to fit than kevlar beaded folding tyres.

I wish I remembered some of the combinations that have proved the most difficult to deal with.  There was a combination a few FNRttCs ago, that we had to fit multiple times, and took three of us, using a VAR lever and two tyre levers to get on.  Inevitably on at least one occasion we ended up putting a snake bite into the inner tube when putting it back on.  I got better at removing it (I think we had to do that five times before we gave up), but we never really sorted out how to get it on efficiently, we just barely managed.  I've very rarely had problems fitting tyres on, I think this was only the second occasion on a FNRttC when I've had significant problems, so I'm reasonably practised at removing and replacing tyres.  After an hour or so, we gave in, and left the guy with the bike waiting for a Taxi that he'd arranged to come and pick him up.

I forget exactly who I was with, but Adrian did join us after the first couple of repairs, and whilst that gave someone else to help turn the air blue, he didn't have any more success than the two of us TECing at that point had previously had.

It was a narrow Conti racing tyre, but I don't know what the rim was, or the exact Conti tyre.

Glad you posted that, Tim. Hopefully people won't feel so embarassed when they post about a freak problem combo in the future, not if someone with your experience can still struggle 

[TimO]

... After an hour or so, we gave in, and left the guy with the bike waiting for a Taxi that he'd arranged to come and pick him up. ...

Glad you posted that, Tim. Hopefully people won't feel so embarassed when they post about a freak problem combo in the future, not if someone with your experience can still struggle 

Indeed, some tyre / rim combinations just seem to be a nightmare.  The occasions when I've had problems have always seemed to be narrow tyres on narrow racing rims.  I can't recall ever having significant problems with a BSO, hybrid, or mountain bike, which is not to say that this isn't possible!  This could also just reflect the relative preponderance of road racing type bikes on these rides however.  In my own stable, the only tyres that have caused me problems recently, were narrow(ish) wire beaded conti tyres on Red, but I've had no problems with that since I binned those tyres (not very fairy proof) and replaced them with something that folds and is a lot more resilient.  I suspect that part of the problem could be that a narrow rim makes it harder to get the bead into the central (deeper) section of the rim, which you generally rely on to make it easier to get that last little bit on.

I wonder how many tyre repairs I've done now?  It's a rare FNRttC when I don't do at least one!  I also did them a lot more frequently when I first moved to London, but modern tyres are lot harder wearing and generally proof against the fairy (I'm going to pay for that statement, aren't I!)

On that particular FNRttC, we had to give up because we were simply getting exhausted from the effort of doing it (not to mention running out of inner tubes!), and Simon had already had to continue moving the front of the ride forward several times, to stop them standing around for too long and getting cold.  It took quite a while to get the ride fully back together again (barely achieved before the half way stop, as I recall).

[Gus]

Continental Grand prix 3000(folding) on Rigida DP18 is one of the worst combinations I've tried in years.
I broke a lever and my fingers still hurt.

[Gus]

DT Swiss X470 29" rims
Continental Cyclocross plus 700 x 32mm mounts without use of tools.
And the big surprise 
Schwalbe Marathon plus Tour 70 x 42mm mounts without use of any crying, swearing or tools.

[Bledlow]

Indeed, some tyre / rim combinations just seem to be a nightmare.  The occasions when I've had problems have always seemed to be narrow tyres on narrow racing rims.  I can't recall ever having significant problems with a BSO, hybrid, or mountain bike, which is not to say that this isn't possible!

Some old Michelin 559-35 road tyres were a nightmare on my MTB's original rims. Better but still damn tight on the Bontrager Matrix 550 rims on Mrs B's MTB, where the usual problem is tyres being too loose.

We still have those tyres, very lightly used. If there's anyone out there who has rims which it's a struggle to find tyres tight enough for, they're welcome to 'em. They have pretty good puncture resistance, as I remember, & rool OK. Only fault is the tightness.

[Blueth]

Don't take the Spa video too literally.  He says it doesn't matter where you start. Sorry chum, it does (can) with an awkward one.

The rule is start and finish at the valve, ie when removing start at the valve and when fitting finish at the valve. This is to enable the bead of the tyre to sit right down in the well of the rim, which it an't gonna do if that space is already occupied by a valve stem.

On a side issue, I never cease to be amazed at the number of very experienced cyclists who struggle generally with a puncture because they have no apparent appreciation of the principles of what they are trying to do when removing/fitting a tyre.

[saturn]

The rule is start and finish at the valve, ie when removing start at the valve and when fitting finish at the valve. This is to enable the bead of the tyre to sit right down in the well of the rim, which it an't gonna do if that space is already occupied by a valve stem.

  I've always found the exact opposite works best for me. When refitting and starting at the valve I push the valve into the wheel a bit until the tyre is seated and then pull it outwards again.

[TimO]

I'd go with the way Blueth does it, if you start and end at the valve, then it's providing no obstruction whatsoever to getting the bead as deep as possible into the well of the rim.  If you start away from the valve, it's going to provide a little obstruction, which may be just the difference between the tyre going on, and not.  It also doesn't really provide any advantage doing it that way either, whilst possibly making things harder.

You should generally push the valve in a bit, to make sure that the inner tube around the valve hasn't got caught below the bead, which at best could cause the tyre to distort a bit until pressure causes the inner tube to pop out, at worst it could cause the inner tube to burst.

[clarion]

The rule is start and finish at the valve, ie when removing start at the valve and when fitting finish at the valve. This is to enable the bead of the tyre to sit right down in the well of the rim, which it an't gonna do if that space is already occupied by a valve stem.

  I've always found the exact opposite works best for me. When refitting and starting at the valve I push the valve into the wheel a bit until the tyre is seated and then pull it outwards again.

Definitely remove from opposite the valve, and refit starting at the valve. 

[Blueth]

I suppose we all have our own experience to fall back on but, leaving theory aside, forty-odd years of fitting motorcycle tyres with short levers (where necessary) tells me what won't work and what makes it easier.

On which point, though I've never had that much of a problem with bicycle tyres, it might be worthwhile carrying a small container of suitable lubricant if you have a really bad tyre/rim combination to deal with on sorting a puncture.

[Biggsy]

Finishing at the valve helps to prevent the tube getting pinched because you can push the last bit of tube out of the way (via the valve).  On the other hand, it's easier to end up with the valve correctly aligned if you finish after it. 

I do the former for a tight tyre and the latter for a loose tyre.  I can manage either way any time anyway.

[Kim]

I've always fitted starting at the valve.  Will make a mental note to try the opposite next time I'm fitting a bastard tyre...

[saturn]

If you start away from the valve, it's going to provide a little obstruction, which may be just the difference between the tyre going on, and not.

Good point, I'll have to try this alternative refitting method with that bl**dy Rigida Chrina.   

[Lardy]

I think every tyre is probably difficult on Exal XR2 rims...

This might well be true. I was expecting the exal's be a bit tight when I plumped for these rims. Anyway, FWIW:

Mavic Open 4CD / Continental Grand Prix 4 Season 25mm* - easy. In fact last year LWaB managed to show me how the tyre and tube could be pulled off in a oner without any tyre levers (impressive - and I was grateful at 1 o'clock in the morning).

OTOH
Exal XR2 / Continental Grand Prix 4 Season 28mm* - very very tight. Not so tight that I never thought I'd get them on, but tight enough to remind me of doing motorbike tyres, and also that I shall always carry 3 levers in case I break one. I'm not looking forward to having sort out a puncture with cold wet hands in the middle of the night etc etc. I hope I have the presence of mind to take it slowly and use some kind of lubricant (chamois cream, sun cream etc) as that'll ease it lots.

*Assumption here is that, for comparison purposes, both widths of Continental's are similar in diameter.

[Bledlow]

Anyone fitted tyres to or removed them from Mavic Open Sports?

[Ningishzidda]

Wacky tip of the week.

A warm tyre is easier to get on a rim than a cold tyre.

So, while you are applying the repair patch, fold the tyre and put it down your shorts.

[aidan.f]

A  pair of  Durano Etape tyres 700x25C  and  a  new  Chrina wheel  have  gone  back to  SPA  cycles after  a  struggle to  put the  two  together. The wheel is  being rebuilt -apparently a bad batch of rims.

Makes me wonder who else has had some  of  that  batch  - or  was  I just  the first?

[vorsprung]

I fitted a 50mm Schwalbe Marathon Supreme onto a Velocity Blunt P35

It was probably the most difficult fit I've done recently,  But...and this is actual useful information, unlike ...[redacted to protect the guilty]... on this thread the reason for this is that the tyre was "tubeless ready"   To work as a tubeless tyre you need a nice tight fit.  So if you don't want that, don't get any of the tubeless ready tyres that are becoming more common

[Ningishzidda]

I fitted a 50mm Schwalbe Marathon Supreme onto a Velocity Blunt P35

It was probably the most difficult fit I've done recently,  But...and this is actual useful information, unlike ...[redacted to protect the guilty]... on this thread the reason for this is that the tyre was "tubeless ready"   To work as a tubeless tyre you need a nice tight fit.  So if you don't want that, don't get any of the tubeless ready tyres that are becoming more common

IIRC, where the tyre is in the clincher, the air pressure force is lateral and pushes the tyre bead into the clincher. IME, only when the tyre is not mounted correctly or the tyre's bead fails, will inflation pressure lift the bead out of the clincher.
A non clincher tyre can be forced off the rim by over inflation. I've seen that. They rely on VERY clean rims for a 'grip'. If there is oil or grease on the rim's internal face, the tyre slides.

Q. With a tubeless, is there a sealing compound used to produce a tight fit between tyre and rim?
Just curious, I have no intention on changing to tubeless.

[Bledlow]

A  pair of  Durano Etape tyres 700x25C  and  a  new  Chrina wheel  have  gone  back to  SPA  cycles after  a  struggle to  put the  two  together. The wheel is  being rebuilt -apparently a bad batch of rims.

Makes me wonder who else has had some  of  that  batch  - or  was  I just  the first?

I did some looking around the other day, & found there are a lot of reports over the last few years about inconsistent sizes of Rigida rims. There was some speculation that it might be connected with the Ryde takeover.

From being a specialist firm making all its rims in a factory in France, Rigida has gone to being a brand name of a bigger firm, along with Weinmann, Alesa, & Van Schothorst, with products made in factories in the Netherlands, Hungary, Malaysia & China.

[sojournermike]

Schwalbe One Tubeless on Pacenti SL23 is a right b*****. In part to be expected as tubeless, but betlyond funny. I split my thumb away from the nail causing blood to appear before resorting to levers. Then they didn't seal due to too narrow rim tape, I think.

Better not have a non sealant fixed puncture on the road...

[zacklaws]

Maxxis Re-Fuse 23mm fitted on Magic Kysyrium Equipe, very easy to fit with just your fingers........but to remove, the equivalent of fitting Marathon plus in reverse, an absolute nightmare, always expect plastic levers to snap.

[Mr Larrington]

Schwalbe Marathon Racers onto 406 Alex DA-15 rims were a bugger, and also what I was running during the Fairy-infested Rural South 300 in 2005.  Losing the head of my pump with about 80 km still to go did little for my peace of mind but fortunately She Who Must Not Be Named decided to leave me alone for the rest of the evening.

The worstest tyres in the history of all things ever were no-name Halfords 559 slicks on the Bontrager(?) rims on my old Trek 930.  I fitted them after copious swearing, washing-up liquid and gardening gloves, and Miss von Brandenburg used the bike for commuting for a while and was happy, because they rolled better than the crappy knobblies it wore before.

Then she had a p*nct*r*.

She could not get the tyre off even a little bit.  Nor could a burly and leather-gloved member of Her Majesty's Finest who took pity of the damsel in distress.  Said copper loaded bike and Miss von Brandenburg into his van and took them to the nearest bike shop.  Their mechanic could not budge the tyre either.  Miss von Brandenburg left the bike in their care and completed her commute by bus.

In the evening the Trek sported a set of shiny new slicks from a reputable manufacturer.  Apparently professional-grade cable cutters were involved.  "We looked at it as a challenge" said the spannerman, before asking "How the f*** did your husband get them on in the first place?"

Not long afterwards the bike was killed utterly to DETH after losing a fight with a black cab

[Pickled Onion]

Today I spent over an hour struggling - and failing - to fit two different tyres on a new Rigida Chrina (700c, 13mm width). Even the first bead was a struggle. The first tyre was a Continental Ultrasports (a tyre I don't particularly like, but I had a pair hanging round in the bike shed cupboard) - its twin had gone on an old Chrina ok, but on the new rim, it wouldn't go. Then I remembered I had a GP 4 Seasons folding. I thought it might be easier - but no difference. I suppose I should try a Michelin, on the grounds of nationality of millimetres, but I don't have one. So I took it back to the shop where I got the rim (and built the wheel) and they said they'd have a go, and they had experienced quality control problems with Rigida recently. So perhaps it's best to avoid this make for a while.

I've got so pissed off with the chrina rim I've got I've decided to retire it early - it's fairly concave but a rim gauge shows it's a long way off being worn out. I've broken tyre levers, and even resorted to using spoons on occasion. Getting a puncture when out is normally a case of a few minutes rest, with these it feels more like a disaster.

[Pickled Onion]

Oh, and I see archetypes don't feature in this thread... I hope I've not made an expensive mistake.