Author Topic: Fatality in the Tour de Suisse  (Read 2480 times)

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Fatality in the Tour de Suisse
« on: 16 June, 2023, 01:46:10 pm »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/65926606

Lest we forget that it's a fairly dangerous sport, especially in the mountains.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Fatality in the Tour de Suisse
« Reply #1 on: 16 June, 2023, 01:51:04 pm »
Sad.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Re: Fatality in the Tour de Suisse
« Reply #2 on: 16 June, 2023, 05:12:58 pm »
Very sad for all involved.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Fatality in the Tour de Suisse
« Reply #3 on: 16 June, 2023, 08:06:13 pm »
Can we give a person a name, please.

RIP Gino Mader
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Fatality in the Tour de Suisse
« Reply #4 on: 19 June, 2023, 11:15:36 am »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/65926606

Lest we forget that it's a fairly dangerous sport, especially in the mountains.

Significant descents used to be ridden less competitively than now. 

Quote
Remco Evenepoel
@EvenepoelRemco
·
Jun 15
While a summit finish would have been perfectly possible, it wasn’t a good decision to let us finish down this dangerous descent. As riders, we should also think about the risks we take going down a mountain

My thoughts & strength is with
@ginomaeder
 and
@MagnusSheffield
!

(2/2)
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111
1,498
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Clive Williams
@CliveTheBike
·
Jun 15
Without descents there are no mountain stages. We hope the best for everyone, but are you saying all stages should be flat, dry, no road furniture, no corners? Try the velodrome!
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1
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Poor Clive maybe wishes he'd engaged brain before he tweeted.

Having ridden down a lot of Alpine and Pyrenean descents, I'd agree that it is at best stupid to have a finish on a descent described as dangerous. 
 

Move Faster and Bake Things

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Fatality in the Tour de Suisse
« Reply #5 on: 19 June, 2023, 11:40:32 am »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/65926606

Lest we forget that it's a fairly dangerous sport, especially in the mountains.

Significant descents used to be ridden less competitively than now. 

Not so. Riders have been going over the sides of mountain descents for many decades, since WW1. These riders really want to win and will risk themselves to do so. There have been miraculous occasions where the riders have clambered back up to the road and continued racing and other crashes where they have been permanently injured or killed. When I have some time, I might link to stories of some of those legendary crashes.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Fatality in the Tour de Suisse
« Reply #6 on: 19 June, 2023, 11:54:36 am »
The famous one is Hinault in the Dauphiné:

https://youtu.be/AYDo11b0rFo

"Yeah, I may have overcooked it on that bend".

Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Fatality in the Tour de Suisse
« Reply #7 on: 19 June, 2023, 12:23:24 pm »
Wim Van Est went over the edge in the yellow jersey.

This is a long but worthwhile account.
https://www.eurosport.co.uk/cycling/tour-de-france/2020/grit-and-charm-when-wim-van-est-plunged-off-the-aubisque-and-koblet-was-king-the-re-cycle_sto7785343/story.shtml

This account is much shorter but refers to 'inner tubes', rather than 'tubular tyres'. The tubulars stretched so much from the rescue, they didn't fit their wheels any more and the whole team had to abandon.
https://pelotontales.com/17-july-1951-wim-van-ests-crash-on-the-aubisque/

Video, for those who don't see mental pictures.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWGSuXAjBVk
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

felstedrider

Re: Fatality in the Tour de Suisse
« Reply #8 on: 19 June, 2023, 12:46:46 pm »
I’m also thinking Merckx and Ocana both crashing when Ocana had the yellow jersey.  Ocana had to abandon and Merckx refused to wear the yellow jersey the next day.

Also Fabio Casartelli.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
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    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Fatality in the Tour de Suisse
« Reply #9 on: 19 June, 2023, 12:48:24 pm »
Remember how well the Schlecks' suggestion of neutralised descents was received…
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LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Fatality in the Tour de Suisse
« Reply #10 on: 19 June, 2023, 01:15:53 pm »
Roger Riviere put himself into a wheelchair from a crash over the edge of a mountain road during the 1960 TdF, where he was a favourite to win.

https://www.probikekit.co.uk/blog/archive/tour-de-france-la-retrospective-1960-the-tragedy-of-roger-riviere/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DmDTeECsnc
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Fatality in the Tour de Suisse
« Reply #11 on: 19 June, 2023, 01:49:41 pm »
I do know the spot where Fabio died. It’s a difficult descent in any case, and he may well have saved my life the first time I went down it. Mindful of the tragedy I was taking it extra slow under the trees and as I rounded a bend had to stop very abruptly to avoid a digger crossing the road. No warning signs or anything. I’ve never stopped to look at the memorial.

Young rider classification in the Tour de France is also called ‘Souvenir Fabio Casartelli’.

Move Faster and Bake Things

Re: Fatality in the Tour de Suisse
« Reply #12 on: 19 June, 2023, 03:12:06 pm »

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Fatality in the Tour de Suisse
« Reply #13 on: 19 June, 2023, 03:48:54 pm »
Wim Van Est went over the edge in the yellow jersey.

This is a long but worthwhile account.
https://www.eurosport.co.uk/cycling/tour-de-france/2020/grit-and-charm-when-wim-van-est-plunged-off-the-aubisque-and-koblet-was-king-the-re-cycle_sto7785343/story.shtml

That's a lovely piece of writing, thanks for sharing

I think you would enjoy listening to the Re-Cycle Podcast as this was the manuscript for an episode. Virtually every episode is a delight.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Fatality in the Tour de Suisse
« Reply #14 on: 19 June, 2023, 03:59:53 pm »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/65926606

Lest we forget that it's a fairly dangerous sport, especially in the mountains.

Significant descents used to be ridden less competitively than now. 

Not so. Riders have been going over the sides of mountain descents for many decades, since WW1. These riders really want to win and will risk themselves to do so. There have been miraculous occasions where the riders have clambered back up to the road and continued racing and other crashes where they have been permanently injured or killed. When I have some time, I might link to stories of some of those legendary crashes.

I think it is a case of skill and experience instead of recklessness. After all, you don't win if you have fallen over a ravine!  That is why the Young Rider Classification in the Tour de France is also called ‘Souvenir Fabio Casartelli’.  Remember what happened to Fabio..

Near the foot of Ventoux there is a memorial to an unknown motorcyclist who apparently died trying to round a bend at an impossible speed - emporté par sa passion.  When you see it from the right direction it looks a bit too like a dick. 

 



Move Faster and Bake Things

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Fatality in the Tour de Suisse
« Reply #15 on: 19 June, 2023, 04:14:17 pm »
If you get round a corner on the perfect line and flirting with the limit of traction while your breakaway companion hits the brakes going into the corner or takes the wrong line, you have made a gap and you can then stay away for the win. It is a pretty simple calculation but the heat of battle can impair a rider's judgement. The best riders descend better than the average pro and I enjoy watching somebody close or open a gap at amazing speed round mountain hairpins. Neutralising or sanitising descents penalises those skilled riders.

I also enjoy descending quickly and still descend quickly when I feel comfortable but I have misjudged descents in the past and have ended up wearing a car that was driving uphill and causing myself permanent damage. You don't need to explain to me that people can get hurt descending at high speed.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Fatality in the Tour de Suisse
« Reply #16 on: 19 June, 2023, 04:25:17 pm »
On one of the Friday night rides to London, 50mph into Hughenden Valley wasn't really safe at 3am, when sleepy and with only a bike headlight to see by.  On a left-hand bend, I very nearly did a Hinault by going over the opposite kerb.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Re: Fatality in the Tour de Suisse
« Reply #17 on: 25 June, 2023, 07:29:33 pm »
Good article here
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/jun/25/fear-casts-a-shadow-over-peloton-for-tour-de-france-after-maders-death?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Quote
Mäder’s death, violent, sudden and totally unexpected, has left a deep collective wound, especially for those who were racing alongside him that day. “We are all Gino,” the French professional Romain Bardet said on Instagram. “We always go faster and faster and push the limit. We flirt bend after bend with our limits. The day, however, is pitch black when fate decides to take one of us with it, a fellow human being, an acrobat in a Lycra suit.”

Adam Hansen, a former professional rider and the newly elected president of the rider’s union, the CPA, believes that professional racing has become “significantly more dangerous” in recent years. “The bikes have become much faster, and the overall competition level has reached new heights,” he says. “When all these factors combine, it creates a significantly higher level of danger.”

Hansen also believes that excessive speed was a factor in Mäder’s death. “It [the descent] was not technical, but the speed was dangerous,” he adds. “Maybe we need better education for the riders, or to somehow create a situation where they are unable to reach such high speeds. The riders need to be aware that cycling is a dangerous sport, and they must be well-informed about the risks.”

One of those who says that he is already very well aware of the dangers is the French climber Thibaut Pinot, a Tour stage winner in both the Alps and the Pyrenees. “It’s often said that you have to switch your brain off on the bike,” Pinot says. “I struggle with that idea. We’re doing a dangerous sport. I’m a rider who takes fewer risks than the others because I’m really aware of the danger.”
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αdαmsκι

  • Instagram @ucfaaay Strava @ucfaaay
  • Look haggard. It sells.
Re: Fatality in the Tour de Suisse
« Reply #18 on: 29 August, 2023, 09:43:31 pm »
The last two days I've been in Andorra and watching La Vuelta. It's very moving seeing all the Bahrain vehicles with stickers on saying (something like) #RidingForGino

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