Using a smartphone to follow gpx tracks on a ride..?

[andyoxon]

I've found I can display gpx tracks by creating a "tracks" folder in OSMAnd main folder on the phone SD card, then by clicking on 'menu' and 'define view', any tracks that one drops in said folder (when phone is connected to PC) can be selected.  One of the tracks I uploaded was over 2000 trackpoints. 

Pro and cons of using a phone instead on a garmin?   I suppose one of the main issues is that most phones aren't weather proof, would need to be in a water proof bag.  Battery life too I guess - though the phone screen could be on auto-off.

[toestrap]

I've started to have a look at this as a cheap alternative to upgrading my venerable first gen etrex vista (mono, no SD card, and minute memory) which eats batteries (eco unfriendly if using disposables - rechargeables are a pain on longer trips).
I have a Sony Xperia U with OSMand

Pros:
Massively improved display and detail compared to old etrex
Tracks easily dragged and dropped

Cons
Battery life - yet to test to destuction but guess it will be around 5 hours (a big pro of etrex is the AA batteries)
I have bought a Topeak iphone cover which keeps it waterproof, but the cover is reflective and the unit wobbles more than the etrex
I had hoped to run the phone attached to a 7300mAh tecknet battery pack, but the left handed usb connector plug I have is too big to plug in and fit in the Topeak bag with the phone (anyone any ideas where to get a slim line one?)
The control by the touch screen is nowhere near as intuitive and requires delicate fingers (ie not glove covered cold hands)
Complex to operate compared to Vista

So it's a compromise. Until I can splash out on a super duper new etrex 30 I'll continue to use my old steam driven etrex as the primary source. I will use phone/OSMand on the bike as secondary reference or for short hacks where it doesn’t matter too much.

[andyoxon]

I've started to have a look at this as a cheap alternative to upgrading my venerable first gen etrex vista (mono, no SD card, and minute memory) which eats batteries (eco unfriendly if using disposables - rechargeables are a pain on longer trips).
I have a Sony Xperia U with OSMand

Pros:
Massively improved display and detail compared to old etrex
Tracks easily dragged and dropped

Cons
Battery life - yet to test to destuction but guess it will be around 5 hours (a big pro of etrex is the AA batteries)
I have bought a Topeak iphone cover which keeps it waterproof, but the cover is reflective and the unit wobbles more than the etrex
I had hoped to run the phone attached to a 7300mAh tecknet battery pack, but the left handed usb connector plug I have is too big to plug in and fit in the Topeak bag with the phone (anyone any ideas where to get a slim line one?)
The control by the touch screen is nowhere near as intuitive and requires delicate fingers (ie not glove covered cold hands)
Complex to operate compared to Vista

So it's a compromise. Until I can splash out on a super duper new etrex 30 I'll continue to use my old steam driven etrex as the primary source. I will use phone/OSMand on the bike as secondary reference or for short hacks where it doesn’t matter too much.

Agreed, probably best as a back-up.  I'm pretty sure I could get more life per charge out of my phone (Huawei Y300), than my Garmin though.  As you say the smartphone display detail is much better (than my Garmin), but could be tricky with cold hands.

[Ningishzidda]

The Samsung G4, a waterproof case, an 'add on' accessories bar, a handlebar mount and a USB back up battery all weigh up to more than a TomTom Rider with a USB back up battery.

I have looked at a Samsung Galaxy 4 scheme, and rejected it.

[andyoxon]

I suppose a hub dynamo USB charge would do the trick (if it wasn't raining - assuming cable port connection isn't watertight).

My phone has been on trial (since 9am) recording 'my tracks' (GPS on/WIFI off), OSMand on, one phone call and a bit of messing about:  100% to 0% (in 14.5hrs).  However I've been inside most of the day, so the phone's probably been working overtime looking for GPS satellites.  Still it's already lasted longer than my Etrex V Hcx normally does.

[Kim]

Check the battery stats.  You might be surprised by how little power the GPS actually uses compared to simply being awake with the screen on.  The cellular connection will eat additional power once you're out in the sticks, so that's something to watch out for.

Sounds like something's up with your eTrex.  I'd expect 20 or so hours from a Vista HCx with good NiMH cells (on the map screen, logging to SD card at 1s intervals, backlight on at junctions).

[andyoxon]

Check the battery stats.  You might be surprised by how little power the GPS actually uses compared to simply being awake with the screen on.  The cellular connection will eat additional power once you're out in the sticks, so that's something to watch out for.

Sounds like something's up with your eTrex.  I'd expect 20 or so hours from a Vista HCx with good NiMH cells (on the map screen, logging to SD card at 1s intervals, backlight on at junctions).

Stats: ~14.5hrs charge (with MYTracks recording/WiFi off).
Google services: 81%  (what's this?) 
Mobile standby: 9%
Phone  idle: 9%

My s/h Garmin worked fine for a few days & then suffered a USB fault; the the seller was very reluctant to take it back.  Anyway it's this fault (seen by someone else) : http://forums.gpsreview.net/viewtopic.php?t=26218 "...a resistor part of the usb power supply circle is defect, which causes the device to be shut off, when connected to a USB power source (or a normal USB-Port either).  My workaround now was to isolate the V+-Connection between the case and the board of the GPS and reconnect it through a variable resistor. "   I reckon this is beyond my soldering capabilities!

It will still connect with USB cable for data transfer, but only if I turn the GPS off for this cable connection; the battery life is limited to about 6-7hrs max.  So it's OK if I swap the batteries for fresh during a ride, and 'splice' the data together.  Garmin will refurb for £70, but it's not worth it (may as well wait and get something newer at some point).

[Kim]

Google services: 81%  (what's this?)

Could be lots of things, but I'm guessing it's the location services thingy.  Try turning off wifi and network based location, but leaving GPS enabled.  Cellular location is almost useless for mapping type stuff once you get away from built-up areas, anyway.

[andyoxon]

Google services: 81%  (what's this?)

Could be lots of things, but I'm guessing it's the location services thingy.  Try turning off wifi and network based location, but leaving GPS enabled.  Cellular location is almost useless for mapping type stuff once you get away from built-up areas, anyway.

Yes, thanks Kim, googling suggests it may be Settings>"Google's location service" using wifi and mobile services - separate from GPS.  Will test again tomorrow out of interest.

[Ningishzidda]

To recce the battery life of a piece of electronics, its best to arrange the test to totally simulate the 'real-life' usage required.

This means that to test the battery life of a smartphone navigating and recording a bicycle ride, the test must be a bicycle ride with the device working until it fails.

If this is impractical, a big slab of USB battery must be connected which, in the estimation of the user, will definitely keep the device alive for the duration.

In my case, a USB battery pack is used, where I can refresh with AA cells before calamity strikes. When the battery icon goes to one bar.

[andyoxon]

Interestingly Google's "MyTracks" won't start recording if you turn "Google's location service" off (in settings), even  if one has "GPS satellites" ticked on.  Supposedly G'sLS 'let's apps use data from sources such as wifi & mobile networks', and GPS is separate, but it appears 'MyTracks' will not operate on 'GPS alone'.  So with MyTracks it may not be possible to avoid the 'google services' drain on the battery.

edit.  went to google "maps" (and with G'sLS off) and it said 'press this*' to enable finding your location.  I did so, and then even MyTracks seemed to find my location even with GsLS still turned off.  So not sure what this* did.

edit:  Even with "Google's location service" turned off, still get 80% 'google services' power drain - so it must simply be GPS recording using Google's MYTracks app.

N, yes a proper test is needed.  Unfortunately I can't operate my Garmin USB and GPS at the same time.

[freeflow]

Try looking at ipbike for cycling.  It allows the use of offline maps (same as Osmand) but is more focussed on cycling.  I've been using it with a Sony Xperia Arc S and more recently with a Sony Xperia Z Ultra.  Both phones are Ant+ enabled.  I have an extended battery for the  Arc S which allows about 7.5 hours cycling with the screen on full brightness whilst tracking position, speed, HR and cadence.  The Xperia Z lasts approximately 4.5 hours on the internal battery.  For the Arc S I was using a Topeak 5 inch smartphone case which as observed above is a bit relective and also a snug fit for the Arc S with extended battery.  The Z Ultra doesn't need a bag as it is a waterproof phone.  The bike mount i have looks like it would release the phone at the first slight bump but in practise maintains a really tenacious grip.  The Ultra can be charged without having to use the USB port using a magnetically attached cable.  I haven't tried charging whilst cycling yet so don't know how well the magnet holds on during normal cycling conditions.

I don't need my phone to run for days in the middle of nowhere so I'm pretty much sorted.

I haven't used my Bryton 50 for months now.

[tiermat]

Try looking at ipbike for cycling.  It allows the use of offline maps (same as Osmand) but is more focussed on cycling.  I've been using it with a Sony Xperia Arc S and more recently with a Sony Xperia Z Ultra.  Both phones are Ant+ enabled.  I have an extended battery for the  Arc S which allows about 7.5 hours cycling with the screen on full brightness whilst tracking position, speed, HR and cadence.  The Xperia Z lasts approximately 4.5 hours on the internal battery.  For the Arc S I was using a Topeak 5 inch smartphone case which as observed above is a bit relective and also a snug fit for the Arc S with extended battery.  The Z Ultra doesn't need a bag as it is a waterproof phone.  The bike mount i have looks like it would release the phone at the first slight bump but in practise maintains a really tenacious grip.  The Ultra can be charged without having to use the USB port using a magnetically attached cable.  I haven't tried charging whilst cycling yet so don't know how well the magnet holds on during normal cycling conditions.

I don't need my phone to run for days in the middle of nowhere so I'm pretty much sorted.

I haven't used my Bryton 50 for months now.

Yebbut ipbike is only a free trial, then you have to pay (IIRC 1million track points or some such like)

[Ningishzidda]

“N, yes a proper test is needed.  Unfortunately I can't operate my Garmin USB and GPS at the same time.”

This comment has puzzled me. I used my Edge 605 in the car with it powered off the cigar lighter via the mini USB port.
Are more recent Edge models and new eTrex incapable of such operation?

[freeflow]

Yebbut ipbike is only a free trial, then you have to pay (IIRC 1million track points or some such like)

The full version is a wallet breaking £5.   Well worth a punt.

[tiermat]

Yebbut ipbike is only a free trial, then you have to pay (IIRC 1million track points or some such like)

The full version is a wallet breaking £5.   Well worth a punt.

IIRC you posted a similar recommendation earlier this year (absolutely nothing wrong with that, in fact all for the good).  You missed that point out then, too.  To be fair in such cases it is best to point these things out (saying something is free is good, not saying that the free version is limited, not so good).

Do you happen to have any connections to the developer?

[freeflow]

IIRC you posted a similar recommendation earlier this year (absolutely nothing wrong with that, in fact all for the good).  You missed that point out then, too.  To be fair in such cases it is best to point these things out (saying something is free is good, not saying that the free version is limited, not so good).

That's a bit sad.  If you look up the software it's perfectly clear that its a trial version and that you have to pay to unlock.  1 million wheel revolutions (approx 2000 km) is a reasonably generous trial period.

Do you happen to have any connections to the developer?

No I don't.  I have owned Garmin Edge (305 and 705) and Byrton 50.  I have been continually disappointed in these products and frustrated by the limitations imposed by the manufacturers (particularly so with Bryton).  Ipbike may not be suitable for all, but IMHO it represents an excellent utility if you already have a suitable smartphone.  I act as an advocate for ipbike no more or less than I would for any other good and useful utility.

[frankly frankie]

“N, yes a proper test is needed.  Unfortunately I can't operate my Garmin USB and GPS at the same time.”
This comment has puzzled me. I used my Edge 605 in the car with it powered off the cigar lighter via the mini USB port.
Are more recent Edge models and new eTrex incapable of such operation?

It could be a setup thing.  Some options, once they're disabled in the setup menus, are never seen again.

[andyoxon]

On the basis that I always carry my phone, I've ordered a Finn phone mount to try... http://road.cc/content/review/99482-bikecityguide-finn   Also created a 'cycling' phone profile: dimmed display - never off*, & WIFI off; for increased battery life.  Phone has a 2020mah battery & should be fine for 200km, but may be worth buying a spare Huawei battery off ebay (£5), as a back-up.  If raining, phone would have to go in pocket, though I'll probably try my waterproof pouch with the Finn mount.

* auto off, but no screen lock may be better.

[Ningishzidda]

The freebie plastic bags Orgs give out with Brevet cards can be adapted into 'see through rain mac's' for smartphones on handlebar mounts.

[andyoxon]

I bought some plastic zipper resealable bags to try for light showers.  I've now used OsmAnd for following downloaded gpx tracks, and it works well on the move; the biggest plus being the screen visibility.  For long +7hr rides rides, I've bought a 2m long USB A to micro USB B (right angle head) for battery boost if needed, and I could run the cable from silicone-gizmo mounted phone to saddle bag with my 6000mah (110g) power pack.  Was thinking - waterproof pouch and jacket pocket for heavy rain.  Work in progress...

edit.  MyTracks seems to be the most reliable (from a not-crashing POV) gps track logger in my hands.  OsmAnd can 'randomly' quit sometimes, which is a pain if using it as the sole gpx recorder, but it's easy enough to re-find place on gps track for following

[andyoxon]

 Looks like some neat gpx navigation now (which I've not tried before).   Use map layers to display downloaded gpx track & POI (favourites), 'use displayed track for navigation'...etc.

OsmAnd 1.7 Released
OsmAnd 1.7 is coming. The biggest breakthrough of this release is a new route planning mode, after any Directions action, which is designed to quickly change start and destination point, tweak parameters and see immediate route recalculation.

 

[frankenthorn]

The cellular connection will eat additional power once you're out in the sticks, so that's something to watch out for.

Some form of offline maps will get around some of that, and turning off mobile data will get around some more ...  Though in the sticks you could well end up drawing more power just to sustain the normal phone signal.

[alexb]

This discussion is why I'm seriously considering the new Decathlon phone. I'll have a look at one in the next few days and see ifI can persuade myself!I

[andyoxon]

The cellular connection will eat additional power once you're out in the sticks, so that's something to watch out for.

Some form of offline maps will get around some of that, and turning off mobile data will get around some more ...  Though in the sticks you could well end up drawing more power just to sustain the normal phone signal.

Aeroplane mode.  GPS without the unwanted trimmings...     (and back-up phone...)