Author Topic: Upgrading my old etrex legend greyscale  (Read 2529 times)

Upgrading my old etrex legend greyscale
« on: 04 February, 2015, 12:52:24 pm »
Whilst I really like my navigation method of route points on junctions, suitably named with the instruction (034-L, 035-R etc), it is an incredibly time consuming process to get the route set up.  I could really do with a faster method of getting a route onto my GPS.

As such, I am thinking of moving to a 'follow the line' method of navigation or 'auto-routing'.

I could do 'follow the line' on my existing legend, however the screen really isn't clear enough to be able to make out the track so I'm thinking about an upgrade to at least a legend with a colour screen.

The etrex 20 is also tempting for its ability to do auto-routing, the dakota 10 seems similar in terms of functions too and is a bit cheaper (which is appealing).

I'd welcome any advice as to what unit (doesn't have to be a garmin) would best suit my needs and limited budget.
Up the hills and round the bends

Kim

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Re: Upgrading my old etrex legend greyscale
« Reply #1 on: 04 February, 2015, 03:59:36 pm »
I'm firmly in the "touchscreens are evil" camp, so prefer the eTrex over the Dakota for that reason.  Otherwise, I don't think they're a lot in it, the software's basically the same.

But I'll query whether auto routing is actually faster:  Ostensibly it'll give you a route from A to B via C, D and E by simply defining those route points.  In practice, it'll probably give you a route that you don't want to cycle (it doesn't know about hills, or your preferences regarding main roads and sustrans paths), so you'll have to take time to persuade it to take the route you do want by adding extra route points (the best approach is in the *middle* of roads you want to travel along, rather than at junctions) until the algorithm's weighting is defeated.

Which would be fine if Mapsource/Basecamp used the same algorithm for finding a route that the unit does.  It doesn't.  So there may be inconsistencies that you'll have to check for, which is tedious.

You also have to fudge things when you do something that the map doesn't allow - typically a contraflow cycle lane, or the "ride to the end of a dead-end minor road, walk the bike across the scary dual carriageway, resume riding on another dead-end minor road" manoeuvre.  My approach is to stick a waypoint there to tell you that's what you're doing, and ignore the incessant beeping and re-routing until you're on the other side.


Which isn't to say that auto-routing doesn't have advantages.  Get this right and you get lovely clear turn instructions, and automagic re-routing if you get lost.  But I'm not sure it's any faster to create routes.

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: Upgrading my old etrex legend greyscale
« Reply #2 on: 04 February, 2015, 05:12:57 pm »
The Etrex 20/30 and Dakota 10/20 are pretty similar. Its mostly just a question of whether you want a touchscreen or not.
Though note the Dakota 10 can't take a memory card, so you are limited to internal memory (about 850MB). So this may be an issue if you want to load a variety of maps, or combine maps from different sources etc.

Re: Upgrading my old etrex legend greyscale
« Reply #3 on: 05 February, 2015, 08:25:42 am »
Thanks for the replies folks. Ive found a legend hcx for a good price and so have bought that.  If nothing else it will allow me to experiment with the various routing options and see which works best.  Regardless the clearer screen will be a big help.

Also means I can use my existing handlebar mount and back cover.

Now to get OSM onto a microSD!
Up the hills and round the bends

frankly frankie

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Re: Upgrading my old etrex legend greyscale
« Reply #4 on: 05 February, 2015, 02:19:40 pm »
The Etrex 20/30 and Dakota 10/20 are pretty similar. Its mostly just a question of whether you want a touchscreen or not.

... bearing in mind that the UI is designed around the touchscreen.  Clicky scrolly operations with the E23/30 joystick are pretty disfunctional.  How many clicks does it take to see all 24 menu options?  Compared with how many finger-swipes on the Dakota? (answer - 11, vs 3)  OTOH the Dakota is really too small for the touchscreen to come to life - at least with my fat fingers.

But I agree with Kim 'touchscreens are evil' - especially on a GPS while riding in traffic.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Kim

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Re: Upgrading my old etrex legend greyscale
« Reply #5 on: 05 February, 2015, 02:37:08 pm »
... bearing in mind that the UI is designed around the touchscreen.  Clicky scrolly operations with the E23/30 joystick are pretty disfunctional.  How many clicks does it take to see all 24 menu options?

Well yes, but you can change the order and put the useful ones at the top and bottom of the list.  It's no worse that previous eTrexes, other than the reset page being designed to make accidental wipes as easy as possible.


Quote
But I agree with Kim 'touchscreens are evil' - especially on a GPS while riding in traffic.

Also: gloves.

Re: Upgrading my old etrex legend greyscale
« Reply #6 on: 16 February, 2015, 05:23:16 pm »
My legend HCX turned up today, had a quick play with and seems very good, a definite upgrade on my old legend.  As a bonus it came with the Topo GB and Europe maps too.

I think I slightly prefer the OSM maps, but I understand they might not be so good with auto-routing. 

With auto-routing in mind would I be better to stick with the Garmin topo GB or use OSM?

Also, what software is best to use to plot auto-routes that most likely result in the same route being calculated on the device?
Up the hills and round the bends

Kim

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Re: Upgrading my old etrex legend greyscale
« Reply #7 on: 17 February, 2015, 12:29:12 am »
I don't think Topo GB maps have any routing data.

Re: Upgrading my old etrex legend greyscale
« Reply #8 on: 17 February, 2015, 07:51:58 am »
I don't think Topo GB maps have any routing data.

I actually tested the auto-routing yesterday on a very trivial example and it did work, map is 'North Sea 10, Topo Great Britain v2, Apr 2008'
Up the hills and round the bends

Re: Upgrading my old etrex legend greyscale
« Reply #9 on: 17 February, 2015, 09:06:07 am »
I don't think Topo GB maps have any routing data.

Oh yes they have.
I got SIX tiles at a time on a 24meg internal memory eTrex legend C.

Using some large size ( Mbytes ) tiles, like the West Midlands, there wasn't much memory remaining for Waypoints and recordings.
That was a lesson in file housekeeping.  ;)

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: Upgrading my old etrex legend greyscale
« Reply #10 on: 17 February, 2015, 01:11:43 pm »
Topo GB does route along roads, but won't route along any paths or tracks etc, even if they are shown on the map. I think the routing data is identical to City Navigator (of the same age). So maybe rather out of date now.
But Topo GB generally looks pretty horrible, loads of brown shading for forests etc.

I think OSM is usually more useful.

frankly frankie

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Re: Upgrading my old etrex legend greyscale
« Reply #11 on: 17 February, 2015, 01:13:24 pm »
Also, what software is best to use to plot auto-routes that most likely result in the same route being calculated on the device?

I don't think any software can be trusted to do that.  Not least because there are so many routing options in the GPS itself - car, bicycle, avoid highways or not, avoid unsurfaced or not, shortest, fastest, etc etc.  Even Garmin's own desktop software doesn't emulate these options precisely.

All you can do is not be too greedy - or to put it another way, don't expect too much - and use enough points that it really can't go wrong.  IMO that means at least one point every 5kms in normal UK open country laney terrain.   With a limit of 50 points that should be enough for a long day ride.
One every 3kms is probably safer - but then you're almost getting to the point where it would be better just to mark every turn and switch the autorouting off, because then you can use many more points.  Which is what I prefer to do.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Upgrading my old etrex legend greyscale
« Reply #12 on: 17 February, 2015, 01:21:56 pm »
Wouldn't it be great if there was software that you could upload a track to and it will spit out a file for auto-routing that will follow the track.  Really doesn't sound to me that it should be that hard, but clearly it must be.

Some experimentation required here I think!

I recall having seen a post somewhere about the best settings to use (set to delivery, rather than bike etc) for using etrexes on bikes.  Anyone know where I might find that post?
Up the hills and round the bends

Kim

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Re: Upgrading my old etrex legend greyscale
« Reply #13 on: 17 February, 2015, 01:27:51 pm »
Wouldn't it be great if there was software that you could upload a track to and it will spit out a file for auto-routing that will follow the track.  Really doesn't sound to me that it should be that hard, but clearly it must be.

I'd settle for Mapsource/Basecamp being able to apply the same routing algorithm as the unit, but yes.

It's not that it's hard, so much that it requires precise knowledge of how the algorithm works in a given firmware.  Only the Garmin developers (or a clever hacker with a lot of time on their hands) have access to that information, and I expect that the firmware devs and the PC application devs are completely different teams with minimal communication with each other.

Re: Upgrading my old etrex legend greyscale
« Reply #14 on: 17 February, 2015, 02:53:28 pm »
I threw my Edge 605 with Topo GB out because:-

A route ‘By bicycle ' between Solihull and Measham directed me onto the M42.

frankly frankie

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Re: Upgrading my old etrex legend greyscale
« Reply #15 on: 17 February, 2015, 06:33:30 pm »
I recall having seen a post somewhere about the best settings to use (set to delivery, rather than bike etc) for using etrexes on bikes.  Anyone know where I might find that post?

No but as a long-time Etrex Legend/Vista user I'd comment that 'delivery' works remarkably well for cycling through an unfamiliar big town, but it not really advisable in open country.  Because (as you might expect) it makes deviations from the 'main line' - in towns these are quite short, but out of town any such deviation could take you miles out of your way.

Incidentally the 'Delivery' option, along with several other routing options, has been omitted from newer models such as the Etrex 30.

I just use 'car' with 'avoid unsurfaced'.  'Avoid highways' is no good because it tries to avoid trunk roads - and everybody needs to ride on bits of trunk from time to time.  'Avoid tolls' will wipe out the whole of central London I imagine ...
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Upgrading my old etrex legend greyscale
« Reply #16 on: 20 February, 2015, 06:49:56 am »
IIRC, it was 'Delivery van'.

I set mine to 'Delivery van' and 'Avoid unsurfaced'.

Then it would take me on any trunk or motorway between Coventry and Shrewsbury, and that's a lot of motorway.

If I set it to 'Bicycle', it would avoid any trunk road between Coventry and Shrewsbury, and that's a lot of trunk road.

There was a peculiar on the M42. Between J3 and J10 ??? No setting would avoid it.

Eventually, it was junked and I got a unit that knew what a road was.

Feanor

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Re: Upgrading my old etrex legend greyscale
« Reply #17 on: 20 February, 2015, 07:43:44 pm »
M42...No setting would avoid it.

Not so.
Hand-crafting the route ahead of time, you could have taken the route of your choice.

If you don't want to hand-craft your routes, then you are relying on the Magic Box guessing your preferences.
If you told it 'Delivery Van', then why should it *not* take you on a motorway?

A GPS is not a toaster; it requires some intelligent input to get useful output.