Extended Calendar Events; A Marriage made in Heaven?

[Martin]

I think the time limit aspect will be ok,  what concerns me most is whether it's legitimate to have home as both a half-way sleep stop and the final destination on the return leg.

Also, is it allowed for a single ECE to include 2 calendar events, i.e. change my plan a bit so that my Sunday 200k is a 100k calendar event with 50k each way ride to and from, so I have a single 5-leg ECE (work->start1, event1, start1->start2, event2, start2->home) with home as an overnight stopping point on both the work->start1 and start1->start2 legs ?

NO! an ECE can only be used for one calendar event otherwise the system will get in a tizz when it tries to calculate the added points; for example if you rode 100cal+100ECE+200cal I would have to call it a 100+300 to make to a total 400 but the system would then add another 2 points for the 200cal making 6 in total. If possible make the two events into 2 separate ECE's each around a calendar event (although this will not be a continuous event worth 7 points) or incorporate the 2nd calendar event into the ECE by NOT entering it but riding the route and agreeing this with / paying the organiser for his / her trouble.

all the other questions about sleeping at home etc all perfectly OK as long as it's within the 52.2 hr time limit (for 700 only, it's 14.3 minimum) if you split it up

[Charlie Polecat]

I think the time limit aspect will be ok,  what concerns me most is whether it's legitimate to have home as both a half-way sleep stop and the final destination on the return leg.

Why not?  Some events have used a shamrock system involving 3 loops from a set base.  For example, A-B with control at A and B, A-C etc, A-D etc.  Just imagine a 600 with a static control at A for 0, 200, 400, 600 control, and 100 at B, 300 at C and 500 at D.  As long as you do not travel the same road in the same direction more than once then all is OK.  Exception made for entering control such as on the BCM where you ride up to Kings YH twice and back twice.

Also Chris Crossland's 600 events on 16 June 2018 involve a control at the start which you revisit for food and sleep, and then use as a final control.  Effectively same place for control at 0, 300 (ish) and 600.

I have a 300K perm which comes back to the base at the end of the 200K and runs away in a different direction for the final 100k. All of the 600's around here use the base at the end of the 400K and then goes out for the final 200 over a different route. All this is in compliance with the Frenchies. 

[earthloop]

Some events have used a shamrock system involving 3 loops from a set base.

That's good to know, so in principle could I start a 1000km ECE (200 event + 800 extra) after work on Thursday with 100km on the way home, another 100km on the way to work on Friday, leave the clock running while I'm at my desk, 100km more on the way home, 400 on Saturday (including the event) and 300 on Sunday ?

1000km at 13.3 km/h gives me 75 hours, i.e until Sunday evening. AIUI I'd need to avoid riding the same road twice in the same direction, which makes the routing an interesting challenge 

[frankly frankie]

You seem to be a wind-up merchant.
What is the point of your outlandish proposals?

[Martin]

You seem to be a wind-up merchant.
What is the point of your outlandish proposals?

that's yacf for you; when I get a real request from a real person I'll consider it (alongside the admin burden it imposes on others in the AUK team)

FWIW I've had a (very) few genuine entries along this tack most of which were DNS...

[jsabine]

You seem to be a wind-up merchant.
What is the point of your outlandish proposals?

that's yacf for you; when I get a real request from a real person I'll consider it (alongside the admin burden it imposes on others in the AUK team)

FWIW I've had a (very) few genuine entries along this tack most of which were DNS...

Me sir! Me!

It was a while ago, but I got Martin to agree to something like 110ECE 100hillyCAL 70ECE (sleep at home) 100ECE 200CAL 30ECE (train) to make up a 600 (sadly he wouldn't allow the last leg to be 10ECE (train) 20ECE (home)).

This all hinged on completing both of the calendar events but not validating one of them: it was still sort of OK when I'd started the 100 late and finished it out of time as I had suitable PoP, but failing to get up in time to ride to the Sunday 200 was a pretty major flaw in my execution.

[earthloop]

You seem to be a wind-up merchant.
What is the point of your outlandish proposals?

My wife (probably) flies out to Estonia for a long weekend trip with a couple of friends midday on a Thursday in December, returning Sunday. That gives me a window during which I still have to go to work (on Friday) but otherwise have nothing better to do than ride my bike between Thursday afternoon and Sunday Evening. Why not make some form of audax out of that riding, I thought.

[frankly frankie]

I think the system can actually be persuaded to accept an ECE-Cal-ECE-Cal-ECE combination, but it's more by way of exploiting an existing loophole, rather than anything that was designed-in.  As such it does require a bit of intervention by one of the few people with access to edit the records (basically, to ensure that all 5 elements are assigned the same riding date).

[Ivan]

so in principle could I start a 1000km ECE (200 event + 800 extra) after work on Thursday with 100km on the way home, another 100km on the way to work on Friday, leave the clock running while I'm at my desk, 100km more on the way home...

Just picking up on this bit, note that you couldn't ride the same route home twice, that would count as laps. You could get round this by having different intermediate controls between work and home to make a diamond though.

[Martin]

I don't enforce the "not allowed to ride the same road twice in the same direction" rule for ECE's, mainly because I can't see peeps' tracks to that level of detail anymore since the (probably 6 times ago) google maps upgrade

I never got the repeated loops thang I think it all came about from a former committee member who took umbrage to a single ride

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Standard international practice is 'do not ride the same road in the same direction on the same day during the one event' There are the usual practical exceptions, with the caveat of "don't take the piss"

[Martin]

Standard international practice is 'do not ride the same road in the same direction on the same day during the one event' There are the usual practical exceptions, with the caveat of "don't take the piss"

^this

there are situations where it's not possible to get to the start of a calendar event without using some of the route

[Wycombewheeler]

To ECE a ride, does the addational ride to start and finish need to be 100km, or if the ride is over 200, coukd the ece be slightly under 100 as long as the total reaches 300?

[Martin]

To ECE a ride, does the addational ride to start and finish need to be 100km, or if the ride is over 200, coukd the ece be slightly under 100 as long as the total reaches 300?

yes it can be, but you must enter the ECE as mandatory route by uploading a file at the time of entry (ideally the whole extended event)

I cannot mandate the calendar route but as long as you submit a file of the ECE and the calendar at over eg 300 it will be validated

[psyclist]

you must enter the ECE as mandatory route by uploading a file at the time of entry (ideally the whole extended event)

I cannot mandate the calendar route but as long as you submit a file of the ECE and the calendar at over eg 300 it will be validated

When I have entered a mandatory route ECE I have only submitted the ECE route beforehand, and then on completion I submit the whole ride including the calendar event. However at the weekend I heard others submit the whole ride beforehand, and from what you've written above that seems to be the preferred approach.

Am I reading this correctly, and if using a mandatory route for the ECE, the preferred file submission before the event would include both the ECE and the calendar route? Presumably deviations on the calendar ride would not impact on validation.

[Martin]

Am I reading this correctly, and if using a mandatory route for the ECE, the preferred file submission before the event would include both the ECE and the calendar route? Presumably deviations on the calendar ride would not impact on validation.

correct; in order to allow a shorter ECE I need to see that the intended total route is over n300km; but the calendar route is not mandatory.

[psyclist]

Am I reading this correctly, and if using a mandatory route for the ECE, the preferred file submission before the event would include both the ECE and the calendar route? Presumably deviations on the calendar ride would not impact on validation.

correct; in order to allow a shorter ECE I need to see that the intended total route is over n300km; but the calendar route is not mandatory.

Two follow on questions then.

Firstly, on AUKWEB the advise given is "Alas only the nominal distance of the Calendar event counts, so if your 200km Calendar event is actually 215km ‘on the road’, alas only the 200km will count towards your ECE total." So doesn't the ECE part need to be added to the nominal distance of the Calendar event?

Secondly, assuming that is a correct statement regarding the nominal distance, is the preferred approach to submit a file with both ECE and calendar routes combined before the ride, or is that only in the circumstances described here where the over-distance calendar event is being counted as over-distance?

[Martin]

Nominal distance used to apply to all calendar events but with the advent of mandatory route perms by gps it's no longer necessary to apply this.

you don't have to submit the track of the calendar event beforehand but you do have to commit to riding the full not nominal calendar distance and then a mandatory ECE and submit a total track such that they both add up,

if by any chance the calendar distance is either under that advertised or cut short on the day due to unforeseen circumstances I will accept a longer than entered ECE; this has happened to me twice due to severe weather on the day

[hillbilly]

That doesn't pass the smell test to me.  If I ride an AUK calendar event where the route is advisory, with actual distance 215 but nominal distance 200, then ride and 85km perm, I'd get 2+0 points (I'll save you he maths it's 2 points). But by ECE you seem to be saying I'd get 3 points for exactly the same route?

[Martin]

That doesn't pass the smell test to me.  If I ride an AUK calendar event where the route is advisory, with actual distance 215 but nominal distance 200, then ride and 85km perm, I'd get 2+0 points (I'll save you he maths it's 2 points). But by ECE you seem to be saying I'd get 3 points for exactly the same route?

 

not if you only rode 285km, which is why you need to record the calendar event in the track

[Charlie Polecat]

We don't do ECE's over here, but I will say the whole premise sounds totally ridiculous and doesn't seem to be at all in the spirit of randonneuring where going out on a singe ride as an endurance event is the entire purpose of the sport.

[Martin]

well try asking the 100s of riders who stretch their limits and support organised events every single week by riding ECE's  if they think it's ridiculous

I've just processed a 200+400 from this weekend. Does that not count should the rider have just gone and ridden a 600km perm instead? (there being no more 600km calendar events this year)

[tonyh]

the whole premise sounds totally ridiculous and doesn't seem to be at all in the spirit of randonneuring where going out on a singe ride as an endurance event is the entire purpose of the sport.

An ECE:

Is a single ride
Is an endurance event (a longer one than the calendar event which is part of it)
Avoids using other transport between home and the event HQ

Surely not particularly ridiculous?

[Charlie Polecat]

Silly: I'm talking about adding up miles over a number of days and calling it a single ride.

[tonyh]