Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Topic started by: Ben T on 24 November, 2017, 05:58:03 pm
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I saw an advert for this yesterday: http://www.gtech.co.uk/ebike.html
Looks great. It says "if you pedal, the bike will help you up to 15mph, but you can pedal harder if you like and go faster".
And it says its range is 'up to 30 miles'
So... let's say for the sake of argument that as a reasonably fit cyclist I have a journey of 30 miles which on my conventional, non-electric bicycle I can do in 2 to 2 and a half hours. Although I'm thus averaging slightly less than 15mph, that probably involves going more than 15mph instantaneously at some point.
In short - can an e-bike enable me to complete that journey quicker than that, for the same effort? Or can it only make it easier, for the same speed?
Do different models of e-bike differ in their ability to use their electric assistance to increase my speed, rather than to decrease my effort?
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Road-legal electric bikes basically ensure that your minimum speed is 25 kph, regardless of hills. Whether that increases your average speed depends on your normal riding speed and how hilly your route is. There are plenty of e-bikes that aren't road-legal and you'll definitely go faster on them.
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The 25kph limit is a requirement of the legislation that makes electric bikes road legal in the EU. Yes, you can get systems that don't have this limitation (typically marketed for "off-road" use, or sold in a jurisdiction-agnostic way by sellers in the far east), but in legal terms they're an unapproved motorcycle by default, so things could end badly if you're caught[1] using one on the road.
On the gripping hand, you have to be a pretty fit cyclist (or live in a pretty dull part of the world) to have a *minimum* rolling speed of 25kph. Assistance won't do anything for the bits where you're already going more than 15mph (well, the extra weight might speed you up downhill), but it will mean you spend less time below 15mph on the climbs and accelerations.
ETA: Crosspost with LittleWheelsandBig
[1] While it's easy enough not to ride one like a cock, consider what happens in the aftermath of a standard SMISDY if they realise what you were riding?
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As with all things in life, the answer is "It depends!"
About 17 years ago, I tried an electric bicycle for about 6 months - you can read of the experience and ultimate outcome here (https://www.meiring.org.uk/pdm/Audax/heinzman.html).
e-Bikes have improved since then - they are a bit lighter and Li batteries are smaller but I think the general priciples remain.
* Road legal eBikes do not give assistance over 15mph. The maximum legal power supplement is 200-250W. They will get you up to speed faster, though.
* If you have hills to struggle up, the ebike will get you up them faster and so reduce your overall time.
Bottom line:
If 30 miles of cycling on the flat takes more than about 2:15 on a conventional bicycle, an ebike will be faster. If those 30 miles take less than 2 hours, don't bother!
If you have lots of hills where your speed drops below 10mph then, even if you can maintain 15mph average, the amount of effort to do so with an eBike is quite a bit less.
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Depends on whether the battery will last for 30 miles. "Up to 30 miles" could be a lot less on a hilly route, or if you are not pedalling much.
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Feedback through the shop from a couple of customers that are gtech ebike owners has been disappointment at the quality of the product and battery life/range (and it's not a cheap machine - especially as it's sold direct without the overhead of dealer margins etc)
There are better ebike options with prices falling quite rapidly - I have new generation 7 speed machine in the shop that is £1,299 with a range of about 55 miles on the battery.
I would concur on the speed/time question that you are on the cusp of any significant benefit.
Rob
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accelerating to 25kph with assistance and then it cutting out is most frustrating. i wonder if it's the case with the modern road e-bikes which are supposed to give some assistance for less capable riders to ride in a stronger group (where the typical average is above 30kph)?
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Hmm, that's interesting. That sort of implies it will actually be faster on a hilly route, because it will still go 25kph UP the hill, but will then potentially go faster than that down it... but on a flat route it might still just go 25kph all the way.
Hypothetically obviously, but just supposing I'm not bothered about being legal. What are my options then?
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As far as I am aware, the law is quite specific - no motorised assistance is allowed above 25 kph/15.5 mph for road legal electrically assisted bicycles. If there is assistance above 25kph/15.5 mph, it is classed as a motorcycle and needs vehicle registration and a license to be allowed on the road. The rider then also needs to be dressed up in a hard shell motorcycle helmet.
You can travel faster than 25kph on a legal e-bike, of course, but only without motor assistance.
See: https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules
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A to B magazine is worthwhile.
http://www.atob.org.uk/electric-bikes/ includes a 28mph sport category.
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There are lots of electric bikes here in Paris, and I usually pass them whatever the circumstances: accelerating from stopped, on the flat, into the wind, or up inclines. By the way, most of them don’t do 25 km/h up any significant hill.
One reason is that the bicycles and their riders present a large surface area to the wind. I’m probably putting out not much more power than their riders, but I’m greatly more aerodynamic (and no doubt have tyres of much lower rolling resistance, too).
Much of the electric power is used on the extra weight, extra drag, and extra rolling resistance over a lightweight audax-style bicycle. Reminds me of modern hatchbacks with 100-horsepower engines that can barely get out of your way because they weigh a ton and a half.
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There are lots of electric bikes here in Paris, and I usually pass them whatever the circumstances: accelerating from stopped, on the flat, into the wind, or up inclines. By the way, most of them don’t do 25 km/h up any significant hill.
One reason is that the bicycles and their riders present a large surface area to the wind. I’m probably putting out not much more power than their riders, but I’m greatly more aerodynamic (and no doubt have tyres of much lower rolling resistance, too).
Much of the electric power is used on the extra weight, extra drag, and extra rolling resistance over a lightweight audax-style bicycle. Reminds me of modern hatchbacks with 100-horsepower engines that can barely get out of your way because they weigh a ton and a half.
Hmm, yeah you see I don't want that, I'd ideally like a normal drop bar road bike but with a battery that can ADD 25kph to my speed :)
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As with everything, there are cheap e-bike-shaped objects that don't work very well but are widely sold. Do your homework, spend a bit more and get a decent e-bike and actual performance will match that promised.
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From my experience (legal conversion of low-end touring bike) at full-value audax levels of effort, the assistance will get you 30% further in the same time. If you can push harder the advantage rapidly disappears.
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Also don't forget that batteries lose capacity over time.
Most "guarantees" will be for something like 85% capacity
This means that the range will also decline
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When I was fit and commuting regularly, my commute times for the 25miles were an average of 1.5 hours. obviously an e-bike would not have made that any quicker.
I'm unfit now and regularly get overtaken by e-bikes in york - there are loads around and they do seem to do 15mph up slight gradients.
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A former colleague of mine had something very similar to this:
https://www.e-bikesdirect.co.uk/brands/haibike/haibike-xduro-hardseven-4-0-2017-electric-mountain-bike-anthracite-white
He had also got a "dongle" that confused the sensors into allowing him to do 25mph. He could commute 15 miles each way at "turbo" setting while wearing his work clothes and would be right on the edge of his range if he didn't charge at work.
It was a seriously rapid machine, but not legal, and not exactly efficient on pedal power. You can get a road shaped electric bike from Giant, but they are massively pricey, and they have the same legal limits under battery power:
http://www.50cycles.com/electric-bikes/sports-e-bikes/road_e_2_pro.html
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A former colleague of mine had something very similar to this:
https://www.e-bikesdirect.co.uk/brands/haibike/haibike-xduro-hardseven-4-0-2017-electric-mountain-bike-anthracite-white
He had also got a "dongle" that confused the sensors into allowing him to do 25mph. He could commute 15 miles each way at "turbo" setting while wearing his work clothes and would be right on the edge of his range if he didn't charge at work.
It was a seriously rapid machine, but not legal,
I'm sure we all knew this would happen. Every other gizmo with limitations gets hacked eventually - including modern car engines - why not e-bikes?
I guess the question is: will the fuzz get involved? I foresee not; until a pedestrian gets seriously injured. Then there will be media and legal chaos!
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A former colleague of mine had something very similar to this:
https://www.e-bikesdirect.co.uk/brands/haibike/haibike-xduro-hardseven-4-0-2017-electric-mountain-bike-anthracite-white
He had also got a "dongle" that confused the sensors into allowing him to do 25mph. He could commute 15 miles each way at "turbo" setting while wearing his work clothes and would be right on the edge of his range if he didn't charge at work.
It was a seriously rapid machine, but not legal,
I'm sure we all knew this would happen. Every other gizmo with limitations gets hacked eventually - including modern car engines - why not e-bikes?
I guess the question is: will the fuzz get involved? I foresee not; until a pedestrian gets seriously injured. Then there will be media and legal chaos!
I think it just needs a collision that involves the police. If a driver pulls out in front of him at a roundabout or something, are the police going to check that the bike is legal and would insurance be checking and trying to get out of their obligation?
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are the police going to check that the bike is legal and would insurance be checking and trying to get out of their obligation?
An insurance company would indeed be very keen to learn whether the e-bike is legal or not in the event of a serious incident. It's not a matter of getting out of their obligation, but determining whether the conditions of the insurance cover apply if an illegal machine has been used. For a third-party insurer, knowledge that the e-bike was not legal would certainly be a big part of their defence.
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Sure, it's entirely reasonable for an insurance company to check the facts regarding an incident for which they may need to pay out. I was merely being facetious. :demon:
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As with everything, there are cheap e-bike-shaped objects that don't work very well but are widely sold. Do your homework, spend a bit more and get a decent e-bike and actual performance will match that promised.
Very much this.
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We have an ebike in the fleet bought for my wife. It is a high quality VOLT with 10 speed gears and a range of about 80km.
I love it in the sense that we now happily cruise at the same speeds when out for a ride and she beats me up the hill so I have a challenge. I no longer have to slow down and wait for her. She can certainly do 80km of fairly hilly, doing her level of input and still have something left in the battery.
I have tried it a couple of times and it is dangerously addictive. I would certainly consider it in another 15 years when I am in my 70s as a method of getting out and keeping going but would probably want the new pinarello Nytro! http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/bikes/electric/product/pinarello-nytro-electric-road-bike-review-51679/ (http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/bikes/electric/product/pinarello-nytro-electric-road-bike-review-51679/)
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Do consider that the consequences of being caught with a non legal e-Bike are considerably more than, say, using ‘non legal’ lights.
It’s likely driving without insurance, no license , no tax, might be no MoT. It’ll mean multiple points on a driving license and a proper fine, possibly a driving ban (those points can tot up fast)...
John
ETA: oh, and potentially a criminal record and I know I’d be very lucky to keep my job...
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I didn’t think that cycling offences affect your car driving licence in the UK (although they do here in Germany)
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I didn’t think that cycling offences affect your car driving licence in the UK (although they do here in Germany)
That’s the point. (Excuse the pun).
It’s not a cycling offence. It’s a motoring offence.
John
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I didn’t think that cycling offences affect your car driving licence in the UK (although they do here in Germany)
That’s the point. (Excuse the pun).
It’s not a cycling offence. It’s a motoring offence.
John
To clarify further, several offences. It's an electric motorbike ( or moped), so as a minimum you would be guilty of:
Driving untaxed.
Driving uninsured
Driving without an MOT.
Driving without the correct license
Driving without the correct safety equipment.
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I think they potentially can in the UK. Whether or not they do...
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accelerating to 25kph with assistance and then it cutting out is most frustrating. i wonder if it's the case with the modern road e-bikes which are supposed to give some assistance for less capable riders to ride in a stronger group (where the typical average is above 30kph)?
Weaker riders (like myself) can happily draft along with stronger riders on the flat at speeds we wouldn't be able to do by ourselves, but immediately get dropped on the hills because drafting doesn't work against gravity - and the strongest riders also like to drop their watt bombs at that point in the ride. So an electric road bike with a speed limiter would actually be a perfect fit for keeping up on group rides.
(you can see this happen on audaxes/sportives/etc where everyone rides together until the first steep hill)
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De-limiting an e-bike is just as antisocial as blowing through red lights, stop signs, IMO. The very first time there is an accident involving a de-limited e-bike, it will make the charlie alliston case seem nothing.
Look forward to clamp-downs on every e-bike, and every person riding a bike fast being accused of riding a de-limited ebike and being run off the road by a vigilante.
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I find it difficult to be concerned about blowing red lights, etc. when nobody is about.
Fast e-bikes are small beer compared to 2 tonne motor vehicles breaking speed limits, which about 80% of them do every single time they are driven.
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It’s not a cycling offence. It’s a motoring offence.
To clarify further, several offences. It's an electric motorbike ( or moped), so as a minimum you would be guilty of:
Driving untaxed.
Driving uninsured
Driving without an MOT.
Driving without the correct license
Driving without the correct safety equipment.
That's OK then. Just tell the judge you need it for work, and you'll get off with a £50 fine. And no ban.
#littlebitofpolitics
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I have the previous incarnation of one of these (http://www.oxygenbicycles.com/e-bikes/s-cross-mtb). It is really rather good, although I did have battery connection issues which I fixed myself. It has a rear hub motor and a 13AH battery that gives me about 35 miles range on my commute. I suspect the battery suffered from little use early in its life (I bought the bike a year old) and it would have more range. I get to work fresh as a daisy, which is the main reason I got it.
I have also converted an Orbit to a front hub set up. It's a very different machine. Lighter and more nimble, but not half the fun. The Oxygen is surprisingly easy to ride off-road. The power kicks in quickly and helps me up inclines I would otherwise struggle on. It is heavy - probably 23Kg with all the bits I have on it, but doesn't feel it. I had a battery built up for the Orbit and I think it would give me 70 miles range, with me putting a fair amount of effort in.
There are lots of <£1000 machines out there, but just don't! I got a Woosh cheap off eBay and it basically fell to pieces. The motor and battery were great, but the frame and fittings were £99 Argos bike quality. Horrible. I have fallen out with the owner of the company on pedelecs.co.uk after honest reviews of his product. They seem to have learned their lesson and their newer offerings seem better equipped and built.
Incidentally, I suspect 99%+ of traffic police will not have the slightest clue as to ebike regulations. That's not to say I condone riding illegally, but the chances of getting caught - unless some eejit* really screws up (& someone will sooner or later) - are very slim at the moment.
* There are lots of those on pedelecs boasting about machines that grossly exceed 15.5MPH. One manufacturer sells a 1000W, 'off-road' (yeah, right) bike that can be switched to 250W to ride legally, but how many buyers are going to select the slower option?
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One manufacturer sells a 1000W, 'off-road' (yeah, right) bike that can be switched to 250W to ride legally, but how many buyers are going to select the slower option?
Those trying to conserve range; the 25kph limit is about the sweet spot between going fast enough to make decent progress and gratuitous power consumption.
Of course, if you're planning to make a habit of it, you're going to buy a more modest motor and spend the difference on a bigger battery...
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Those trying to conserve range; the 25kph limit is about the sweet spot between going fast enough to make decent progress and gratuitous power consumption.
Sounds quite a bit like using your legs for power.
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Those trying to conserve range; the 25kph limit is about the sweet spot between going fast enough to make decent progress and gratuitous power consumption.
Sounds quite a bit like using your legs for power.
YLMV
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YLMV
;D
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for my commuter/runabout bike i'd like a setup which is invisible from outside (to prevent theft), adds about 100w whenever i pedal, doesn't cut out at 25kph and the battery has a range of 150-200km. this would mean i'd arrive fresh and clean all the time without wearing any cycling kit. charge the battery once a week, what's not to like! i'm certain the technology isn't that far away.
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There are lots of those on pedelecs boasting about machines that grossly exceed 15.5MPH. One manufacturer sells a 1000W, 'off-road' (yeah, right) bike that can be switched to 250W to ride legally, but how many buyers are going to select the slower option?
The Department for Transport say that the availability of a derestricted mode is enough to make it not a legal e-bike. I suspect that a court case would be required to sort it out though.
Incidentally, bearing your forum handle in mind, the immunity from breath tests is something else that would go with the speed restriction.
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for my commuter/runabout bike i'd like a setup which is invisible from outside (to prevent theft), adds about 100w whenever i pedal, doesn't cut out at 25kph and the battery has a range of 150-200km. this would mean i'd arrive fresh and clean all the time without wearing any cycling kit. charge the battery once a week, what's not to like! i'm certain the technology isn't that far away.
That's possible, but at present it would need a battery of about 6 litres in size, which is hardly inconspicuous. I find I get better range by using more power on hills and none when I could push a higher than normal gear. That way, I find that half that size gets me easily as far as I want to go at a stretch (100-160 km) and for a really long ride it's small enough to take inside and recharge at a cafe stop or the like.
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for my commuter/runabout bike i'd like a setup which is invisible from outside (to prevent theft), adds about 100w whenever i pedal, doesn't cut out at 25kph and the battery has a range of 150-200km. this would mean i'd arrive fresh and clean all the time without wearing any cycling kit. charge the battery once a week, what's not to like! i'm certain the technology isn't that far away.
here you are:
http://www.bmf.co.uk/news/show/6-of-the-best-electric-motorcycles-you-should-try-in-2016
We've been through power assisted pedal cycles once, starting with dinky little engines bolted on to ordinary pedal cycles, and, in the absence of restriction, the end result is the Fireblade and its ilk.
There's no need to do it all over again with a different type of engine, especially when electric motorcycles are becoming available.
The point of the e-bike regulations isn't to enable regular cyclists to go faster with less effort, but to make cycling accessible to those who wouldn't otherwise ride
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The point of the e-bike regulations isn't to enable regular cyclists to go faster with less effort, but to make cycling accessible to those who wouldn't otherwise ride
Very succinct. :thumbsup:
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for my commuter/runabout bike i'd like a setup which is invisible from outside (to prevent theft), adds about 100w whenever i pedal, doesn't cut out at 25kph and the battery has a range of 150-200km. this would mean i'd arrive fresh and clean all the time without wearing any cycling kit. charge the battery once a week, what's not to like! i'm certain the technology isn't that far away.
here you are:
http://www.bmf.co.uk/news/show/6-of-the-best-electric-motorcycles-you-should-try-in-2016
We've been through power assisted pedal cycles once, starting with dinky little engines bolted on to ordinary pedal cycles, and, in the absence of restriction, the end result is the Fireblade and its ilk.
There's no need to do it all over again with a different type of engine, especially when electric motorcycles are becoming available.
The point of the e-bike regulations isn't to enable regular cyclists to go faster with less effort, but to make cycling accessible to those who wouldn't otherwise ride
i'm fully aware about the electric motor bikes - it's not what i'm after though.
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There are lots of those on pedelecs boasting about machines that grossly exceed 15.5MPH. One manufacturer sells a 1000W, 'off-road' (yeah, right) bike that can be switched to 250W to ride legally, but how many buyers are going to select the slower option?
The Department for Transport say that the availability of a derestricted mode is enough to make it not a legal e-bike. I suspect that a court case would be required to sort it out though.
Almost all FWD & RWD bikes are readily derestrictable. It's a relatively simple task (when you know how to do it, natch) of accessing the maximum speed setting on the display and upping it to the desired speed. By default, the kit I fitted to the Orbit did not have the maximum speed set to 15.5MPH. I had to do that. It's also possible by entering the wrong wheel size on smaller-wheeled bikes. BB drives are more sophisticated and made by Bosch & Yamaha in the main. They are harder to derestrict, but, as someone above mentioned, there are expensive dongles that fool the control mechanism in one of several ways. Plod would have to know how to enter the workings on the controller to check these settings and, short of seizing the bike, would be difficult to do roadside.
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majority of e-bikes i've seen on london roads were derestricted, so if there was a will plod could seize them and fine the owners. the easy way to tell is if someone is sitting upright and going above 30kph.
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I should think the chance of having ebike regs enforced is even less than the chance of being prosecuted for filing out the baffles on your 50cc Fizzy back in 1985.
As for journey time, it's not just about top speed. In a commuting situation, the extra acceleration could allow you to not get baulked by slower riders and to get through the next set of lights before they turn. Out of town those become irrelevant, of course.
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As for journey time, it's not just about top speed. In a commuting situation, the extra acceleration could allow you to not get baulked by slower riders and to get through the next set of lights before they turn. Out of town those become irrelevant, of course.
It also reduces the time you have to wait for a suitable gap in traffic when negotiating a busy junction, particularly if it's uphill. Indeed, a lot of the e-bike users I've talked to (who at this point are generally using them for age/disability reasons) find the confidence from being able to accelerate sharply is as important as not being defeated by hills.
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Good point. And I expect the extra power and more so it's independence from crank position comes in handy negotiating silly sustrans gates.
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Good point. And I expect the extra power and more so it's independence from crank position comes in handy negotiating silly sustrans gates.
The harmonised EU pedelec regulations require a crank rotation sensor, although there are plenty of older bikes on the road that conform to the grandfathered British regulations that allowed pure hand throttle control, and of course plenty of non-compliant conversions. TBH, the advantages of extra power for slaloms are probably cancelled out by the disadvantages of a heavy bike when the Silly Sustrans Gate requires a dismount.
(Personally - much as I like pedal torque sensing as a means of control for a 'cycling' experience - I think the crank rotation requirement is a bad idea. The marginal safety advantage of the motor cutting out when you stop pedalling is less useful than the accessibility benefit of throttle-only operation, for example as a bail-out option for someone with an unpredictable leg problem. And it's one more fiddly sensor and wiring to complicate the cheap conversions that might get a commuter out of a car.)
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The harmonised EU pedelec regulations require a crank rotation sensor, although there are plenty of older bikes on the road that conform to the grandfathered British regulations that allowed pure hand throttle control,
https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules (https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules) contains
The bike must also be type approved if either
......
it can be propelled without pedalling (a ‘twist and go’ EAPC)
So if you are prepared to pay the fee (and hassle) for type approval at the appropriate centre (eg like kit cars) then you can still have full twist control. I wonder how many have done this?
(I think the normal rules allow a 4mph(6kph) walking/start assistance without pedalling (eg by button press as on the Nano kits but I don't have a link to the legislation but this https://www.juicybike.co.uk/uk-europe-ebike-law (https://www.juicybike.co.uk/uk-europe-ebike-law) mentions that rule and gives the standard as EN15194 ).
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There is another use for e-bikes, and it's one that doesn't involve ownership. Freeloading.
There's a lot of e-bikes round these parts, you can often here them coming up behind you as a slightly higher pitched whine, with an absence of squeaks and rattles. Wait for it to approach, and as it goes past, jump on the rear wheel. You now have someone to draft until they decide to go somewhere you're not going, which allows you to make significant progress through the inevitable Omni directional headwind.
I used to find e-bikes a right sod on the fietspad, until I realised just how useful they can be if you time it right.
J
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If you want a Chinese made Ebike you might want to put your order in soon.
http://www.bike-eu.com/laws-regulations/nieuws/2017/12/eu-adopts-new-anti-dumping-rules-implications-for-e-bike-case-10132222 (http://www.bike-eu.com/laws-regulations/nieuws/2017/12/eu-adopts-new-anti-dumping-rules-implications-for-e-bike-case-10132222)
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There is another use for e-bikes, and it's one that doesn't involve ownership. Freeloading.
There's a lot of e-bikes round these parts, you can often here them coming up behind you as a slightly higher pitched whine, with an absence of squeaks and rattles. Wait for it to approach, and as it goes past, jump on the rear wheel. You now have someone to draft until they decide to go somewhere you're not going, which allows you to make significant progress through the inevitable Omni directional headwind.
I've never had much luck with drafting barakta's electric-assist ICE trike, because the only machine I've got that's low enough to really benefit is the Red Baron, and that's sufficiently aerodynamic that at 25kph you needn't bother.
However, last weekend I found myself rushing for a train down Nottingham's Deliveroo Expressway[1], on my Brompton, accompanied by my friend on a sit-up-and-beg German ebike. I took the forward position out of habit, but soon realised that was the stupid way round. We changed positions, and with some gratuitous wheelsucking I was soon blatting along with a fraction of the effort that I'd normally need on a proper bike, let alone the Brommie.
So yeah, ebikes - especially those set up to make a nice big hole in the air - are indeed excellent for drafting, and should be encouraged. :thumbsup:
[1] As the new cycle superhighway along Castle Boulevard is colloquially known, for obvious reasons.
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I've never had much luck with drafting barakta's electric-assist ICE trike, because the only machine I've got that's low enough to really benefit is the Red Baron, and that's sufficiently aerodynamic that at 25kph you needn't bother.
However, last weekend I found myself rushing for a train down Nottingham's Deliveroo Expressway[1], on my Brompton, accompanied by my friend on a sit-up-and-beg German ebike. I took the forward position out of habit, but soon realised that was the stupid way round. We changed positions, and with some gratuitous wheelsucking I was soon blatting along with a fraction of the effort that I'd normally need on a proper bike, let alone the Brommie.
So yeah, ebikes - especially those set up to make a nice big hole in the air - are indeed excellent for drafting, and should be encouraged. :thumbsup:
Having foolishly signed up for a Big Race™ this week, I've started doing longer and faster training rides. Normally the colleagues I commute with grab onto me and I pull them along as my bike is faster than their omafiets, but today I rode part way home with a different colleague, he has a German made pedal assist ebike with all the aero dynamics of a brick. He also has a 20km commute. I rode with him for 15km before turning round to do another 20km into the wind home. Him having the ebike meant I could do the pace that was comfortable for me, without having to worry about those I'm with keeping up or hanging off my backpack. It's most refreshing.
Shame I've yet to find justification for myself owning an e-bike, I'm wondering what other uses I can put others e-bikes to beyond company and wind shields...
J
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I'm sure a friend with an ebike would be a useful friend to know in the event of hauling (small items of) furniture, for instance.
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I'm sure a friend with an ebike would be a useful friend to know in the event of hauling (small items of) furniture, for instance.
I've certainly made use of the trike for hauling heavy stuff in the trailer. Partially because of the low-speed stability and less squirrely braking, but the extra oomph from the motor is lovely in traffic.
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I didn’t think that cycling offences affect your car driving licence in the UK (although they do here in Germany)
But - it wouldn’t be a cycling offence. An e-bike “ over speed/ power legally becomes a motorbike. A chap around here has a lawn mower sort of motor strapped to a bike - he needs an MoT, licence, insurance and helmet, as well as number plates.
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I didn’t think that cycling offences affect your car driving licence in the UK (although they do here in Germany)
But - it wouldn’t be a cycling offence. An e-bike “ over speed/ power legally becomes a motorbike. A chap around here has a lawn mower sort of motor strapped to a bike - he needs an MoT, licence, insurance and helmet, as well as number plates.
Indeed.
I believe that you can get a driving ban for going equipped for car theft, which could conceivably be done on a pedal cycle, but that's about all.
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You can get a driving ban in the UK for any offence whatsoever. I learnt this when it was mentioned in these very pages by the Learned Julian.
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I didn’t think that cycling offences affect your car driving licence in the UK (although they do here in Germany)
But - it wouldn’t be a cycling offence. An e-bike “ over speed/ power legally becomes a motorbike. A chap around here has a lawn mower sort of motor strapped to a bike - he needs an MoT, licence, insurance and helmet, as well as number plates.
Also I'm pretty sure that UK judges *do* have the power to endorse your car licence for other "related" offences. I've read one-or-two anecdotes of it actually happening - it's incredibly rare. IIRC drunk cycling has come up?
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Slogging into a headwind on the way to work, I look up to see opa breezing past me barely pedalling. I'm about to swear loudly when I spot the battery on the rear rack. Bingo. I jump on his rear wheel and for the next 2km do a steady 24.5kph. Made the headwind completely go away. Was great. Annoyingly, still didn't break my Pr for that leg on strava...
Today I was in Maastricht for an Audax tomorrow, so thought I'd entertain myself with some hills. I'm grinding my way up the Cauberg in bottom gear when oma and opa both over take me. I'm about to swear really loudly at my own ineptitude when the road tilts up, thenen I spot the batteries on the rear racks. I just got owned on the Cauberg by oma and opa on e bikes.
What ever you say about their merits in sport cycling, for every day transport for 8-80 accessibility, you really can't beat them. Especially if there are any hills in the area. Makes me wonder if rather than giving over 65's a bus pass, what if we gave them a pedal assist E-bike instead?
J
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Spooky, we arrived in Maastricht yesterday for a tour (no audaxing for us!)
The problem with e-bikes for the elderly is that they are heavy and we have seen several cases where people have fallen off when they have stopped simply because of the weight. But apart from that I think they are great.
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I didn’t think that cycling offences affect your car driving licence in the UK (although they do here in Germany)
But - it wouldn’t be a cycling offence. An e-bike “ over speed/ power legally becomes a motorbike. A chap around here has a lawn mower sort of motor strapped to a bike - he needs an MoT, licence, insurance and helmet, as well as number plates.
Also I'm pretty sure that UK judges *do* have the power to endorse your car licence for other "related" offences. I've read one-or-two anecdotes of it actually happening - it's incredibly rare. IIRC drunk cycling has come up?
It is also the case in France. (I am told that you can be booked and points lost on your car licence for speeding on a bicycle even though the bike doesn't need a speedo). It is most certainly not a safe way of getting home after drinking too much - people can be and have been banned from driving for a non-car related offence.
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What ever you say about their merits in sport cycling, for every day transport for 8-80 accessibility, you really can't beat them. Especially if there are any hills in the area. Makes me wonder if rather than giving over 65's a bus pass, what if we gave them a pedal assist E-bike instead?
J
Not going to happen in UK obviously (until I'm King of the World) but maybe it could work in NL where oldsters might well have been cycling all their lives. As a bonus, in the UK it would result in better bus services too! (Bus cos don't get refunded for the passes, so run fewer services instead to reduce loss.)
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The problem with e-bikes for the elderly is that they are heavy and we have seen several cases where people have fallen off when they have stopped simply because of the weight. But apart from that I think they are great.
I saw a paper on that... *googles* https://researchmgt.monash.edu/ws/portalfiles/portal/33966117
In summary, things that cause safety issues for e-bike riders are mostly the same things that cause safety issues for un-assisted cyclists. (ie. negligent motorists, quality of infrastructure, losing control of the bike at low speed)
There's some suggestion that throttle-only operation creates a hazard, which makes intuitive sense (I was on a ride a while ago where someone explained the risk of leaning a bike with a full-length twist grip throttle against a wall while it's switched on in a DAHIKT style). The extra weight can be a problem for some riders, as can mechanical failure due to self-assembly. Speed in itself only seems to become an issue when combined with poor infrastructure.
But the elephant in the room seems to be that many e-cyclists are older people who haven't previously cycled as adults, so lack basic bike skills. That's good news in that electric assist cycles are giving new people independent mobility, but bad in that they're a demographic that's at higher risk of injury. On the gripping hand, the occasional fall as you start/stop you e-bike may be a much healthier[1] alternative to a sedentary lack of independence.
[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27299435
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I'd use an ebike for an easier, rather than faster ride. My opinion might change if I tried riding one ;D
Trek Bike Store in Milton Keynes are promoting ebikes over the Easter holiday (but not Sunday when they are closed) and you can try them out.
I'm riding the Double Dutch Audax on the Saturday but if anyone fancies coming up to Milton Keynes to have a look and maybe go for a cafe ride then I'd be up for that.