Author Topic: ipayroadtax  (Read 5126 times)

Martin

ipayroadtax
« on: 15 August, 2018, 08:31:48 pm »
I was waiting at the lights behind another rider with one of those nice Foska jerseys; I resisted the temptation to say "I pay it twice but still get sworn at when I'm on my bike"

(which I was)

Gattopardo

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Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #1 on: 16 August, 2018, 04:26:37 pm »
No you don't and doubt any current driver has.

Kim

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Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #2 on: 16 August, 2018, 04:46:06 pm »
No you don't and doubt any current driver has.

Which, IIRC, is written on the jersey in question.

Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #3 on: 17 August, 2018, 03:20:32 pm »
There's no point with logical argument.

The main thrust of the "you don't pay road tax" bile is that (most) car drivers have to pay something extra for their car(s) that cyclists don't have to for their bike(s).

Arguing about the specifics (hypothecation[1], emissions based, many cyclists pay VED on their cars, etc) misses that point.

The Government should just abolish it for non-HGVs and increase fuel duty to break even but that's probably replete with unfair situations.

1. Is this still in the plans for hypothecation to be reintroduced at the end of this decade?
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Kim

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Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #4 on: 17 August, 2018, 03:27:39 pm »
The main thrust of the "you don't pay road tax" bile is that (most) car drivers have to pay something extra for their car(s) that cyclists don't have to for their bike(s).

It's not even that nuanced.  They simply don't want you to be there, and they're grasping at the first reasonable-sounding straw that comes to mind.  It's not like they'd suddenly become less entitled if cyclists paid hundreds in VED (and insurance, and had registration, and wore helmets, and whatever).

The road tax argument is an academic curiosity that's as good a basis for a novelty jersey design as anything, but by the time someone's invoked it against you, you've already lost.

Gattopardo

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Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #5 on: 17 August, 2018, 03:46:47 pm »
No you don't and doubt any current driver has.

Which, IIRC, is written on the jersey in question.

Now why didn't you say, I want two...

Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #6 on: 17 August, 2018, 03:51:39 pm »
I can only imagine that I'd just be involved in more "youfuckersdontpayroadtax" arguments if I was wearing one of those jerseys than not.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Gattopardo

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Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #7 on: 17 August, 2018, 03:57:16 pm »
I get that shouted at me and use the cycle lane.

Sometimes after a punishment pass 'cos I should have used the cycle lane.

Kim

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Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #8 on: 17 August, 2018, 04:01:24 pm »
I get that shouted at me and use the cycle lane.

Sometimes after a punishment pass 'cos I should have used the cycle lane.

Let me guess, also happens when there isn't a cycle lane?

Gattopardo

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Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #9 on: 17 August, 2018, 04:26:04 pm »
I get that shouted at me and use the cycle lane.

Sometimes after a punishment pass 'cos I should have used the cycle lane.

Let me guess, also happens when there isn't a cycle lane?

Other day near green lanes station haringey I was in a bus lane and got overtaken then pulled in on by a black cab.  Stopped a few yards later at a red light.  It is OK tho as he saw me. 

I am the problem I believe.

Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #10 on: 17 August, 2018, 05:51:12 pm »
The main thrust of the "you don't pay road tax" bile is that (most) car drivers have to pay something extra for their car(s) that cyclists don't have to for their bike(s).

It's not even that nuanced.  They simply don't want you to be there, and they're grasping at the first reasonable-sounding straw that comes to mind.
This ^

They would be just as cross if you were in a car and delaying them by stopping at red lights or sticking to the speed limit.
Quote from: Kim
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mattc

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Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #11 on: 17 August, 2018, 07:44:43 pm »
I pay tax that is spent on roads.
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---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #12 on: 18 August, 2018, 07:50:47 am »


Unfortunately still true... some do



Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #13 on: 18 August, 2018, 07:59:10 am »
Few years ago we had a "petrol head' at work who was an avid believer in motorists rights.

One day he expounded that my taking the primary was wrong as  "cyclists have no rights as they don't pay road tax" and I should have got out of his way

I pointed to that his car was "Band C VED"

I had one car in band H, and another in Band A.... I therefore payed over twice as much ''road tax" as he did. BY his logic I therefore had more rights than he did.... next time I drove in, would he therefore be getting out of my way?

Apparently it doesn't matter how much you pay as paying more doesn't give you more right!

(Didn't have the heat to tell him that the Group H was in fact exempt due to my wife's disability)


tiermat

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Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #14 on: 18 August, 2018, 08:51:35 am »
It's an argument that you can't win, as mentioned above.

Especially when you have dickheads, like Cunobelin, who claims you have more rights because you pay the tax, then contradicts themselves a minute later by saying that you don't.

Of course mattc is right, we all pay taxes that are spent on the roads, just some people seem to struggle with the concept.
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Basil

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Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #15 on: 18 August, 2018, 09:37:16 am »

Especially when you have dickheads, like Cunobelin, who claims you have more rights because you pay the tax, then contradicts themselves a minute later by saying that you don't.

I had to read that bit twice.  You probably could have phrased it a little better.   ;)
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Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #16 on: 18 August, 2018, 09:48:31 am »
Since there's no such thing as "road tax", I think the phrase "ipayroadtax" and the website using that name is just perpetuating the idea that drivers pay "road tax".

Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #17 on: 18 August, 2018, 11:13:05 am »
There's no point with logical argument.

The main thrust of the "you don't pay road tax" bile is that (most) car drivers have to pay something extra for their car(s) that cyclists don't have to for their bike(s).

Arguing about the specifics (hypothecation[1], emissions based, many cyclists pay VED on their cars, etc) misses that point.

The Government should just abolish it for non-HGVs and increase fuel duty to break even but that's probably replete with unfair situations.

1. Is this still in the plans for hypothecation to be reintroduced at the end of this decade?

Thing is that there are several million vehicles on the road which due to disability, use (ambulance etc) or low emissions don't pay the "road tax" (VED) either.




As to 'logical argument , the other way I explain why it is so silly is this:

There are people who sit in the pub drinking soft drinks and coffee.

How dare they uses stat when beer drinkers like me pay additional taxes to drink alcohol in the pub, and they don't!!!!

Those having soft drinks ( or tea/coffee) should be made to give way in queues and only have seats when us beer drinkers don't need them

Absolutely nonsensical, but exactly the same logical theory

Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #18 on: 18 August, 2018, 11:14:02 am »

Especially when you have dickheads, like Cunobelin, who claims you have more rights because you pay the tax, then contradicts themselves a minute later by saying that you don't.

I had to read that bit twice.  You probably could have phrased it a little better.   ;)

Did make me smile (the second time):

May I suggest:

Especially when, like Cunobelin, you have dickheads........

Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #19 on: 18 August, 2018, 02:19:33 pm »
As a cyclist, I'm mainly disappointed that more isn't spent on maintaining the condition of  the edge of roads. There's also the effect of utilities. Drains, gas pipes and electricity cables have to go somewhere, and it frequently seems that they go just where I want to ride.

As a motorist, my behaviour is constrained by the inadequate capacity of trunk roads and motorways.

We recently drove on a section of the M6, which was being 'upgraded' to a 'Smart Motorway'. That consists of putting some signs up, I did wonder why the work was scheduled for completion in March 2022. The work in Cheshire to the North has been working to a similar timescale, and has led to daily chaos.

Revenue from VED and fuel duty is about four times the expenditure on roads.

Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #20 on: 18 August, 2018, 02:41:38 pm »
We recently drove on a section of the M6, which was being 'upgraded' to a 'Smart Motorway'. That consists of putting some signs up, I did wonder why the work was scheduled for completion in March 2022. The work in Cheshire to the North has been working to a similar timescale, and has led to daily chaos.
Not quite. There's also the little matter of upgrading the hard-shoulder to full running capability, adding the refuges for when the hard shoulder is in use as a running lane, sensors, cameras, speed-cameras and the signs. Still seems to take rather longer than it should but does seem to help once actually working.
"No matter how slow you go, you're still lapping everybody on the couch."

Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #21 on: 18 August, 2018, 03:30:53 pm »
Obviously the frustration caused by 20 miles of works on the M6, unfolding over 4 years is not connected with cycling. It does impact on where I might go to ride Audaxes, with anywhere South of the Thelwall written off, but it doesn't affect 'pure' cyclists.

Such vexations do affect the mood of motorists though.

Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #22 on: 18 August, 2018, 09:04:57 pm »
We recently drove on a section of the M6, which was being 'upgraded' to a 'Smart Motorway'. That consists of putting some signs up, I did wonder why the work was scheduled for completion in March 2022. The work in Cheshire to the North has been working to a similar timescale, and has led to daily chaos.
Not quite. There's also the little matter of upgrading the hard-shoulder to full running capability, adding the refuges for when the hard shoulder is in use as a running lane, sensors, cameras, speed-cameras and the signs. Still seems to take rather longer than it should but does seem to help once actually working.


Ah ... Refuges for vehicles

We have a local suggestion for parts of the M27


My favourite quote so far is that cars don't break down immediately, or have problems that require them to stop immediately......... they will always be able to travel half a mile or so to a refuge without any issues.



Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #23 on: 20 August, 2018, 06:06:29 pm »
Few years ago we had a "petrol head' at work who was an avid believer in motorists rights.

One day he expounded that my taking the primary was wrong as  "cyclists have no rights as they don't pay road tax" and I should have got out of his way

I pointed to that his car was "Band C VED"

I had one car in band H, and another in Band A.... I therefore payed over twice as much ''road tax" as he did. BY his logic I therefore had more rights than he did.... next time I drove in, would he therefore be getting out of my way?

Apparently it doesn't matter how much you pay as paying more doesn't give you more right!

(Didn't have the heat to tell him that the Group H was in fact exempt due to my wife's disability)

Not a petrol head but a dick head.

EDIT - The get out of the way comment says it all.

Gattopardo

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  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: ipayroadtax
« Reply #24 on: 20 August, 2018, 06:13:18 pm »
It's an argument that you can't win, as mentioned above.

This one I really struggle with this, as they are wrong, and need to know why they are wrong.  It is my self harm I think.

Especially when you have dickheads, like Cunobelin, who claims you have more rights because you pay the tax, then contradicts themselves a minute later by saying that you don't.

Shall we start the discussions of who has to pass a test to prove a minimum standard to be on the road?  Or the if I cycle it is one less car infront, so the dickhead should be saying thank you.

Of course mattc is right, we all pay taxes that are spent on the roads, just some people seem to struggle with the concept.

I disagree with your struggle comment, I think it is more cannot or will not comprehend.