Author Topic: Hearing aid 'loops'  (Read 1639 times)

Hearing aid 'loops'
« on: 26 September, 2018, 07:15:51 pm »
Our village hall has a portable hearing aid 'loop'. Obviously, there's no loop, it's a box which picks up ambient noise and transmits it on whatever magic frequency hearing aid 'T' settings use.
Only it doesn't. It appears to be broken and, due to a change in committee, we have no documentation for it.

Does the panel have any suggestions as to a replacement?
Do the portable ones work reliably when not broken?
How expensive and difficult would a proper loop system be?

Thanks in advance

Steve
"No matter how slow you go, you're still lapping everybody on the couch."

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Hearing aid 'loops'
« Reply #1 on: 26 September, 2018, 07:22:10 pm »
Paging Kim & barakta...

Kim

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Re: Hearing aid 'loops'
« Reply #2 on: 26 September, 2018, 07:50:42 pm »
Our village hall has a portable hearing aid 'loop'. Obviously, there's no loop, it's a box which picks up ambient noise and transmits it on whatever magic frequency hearing aid 'T' settings use.

It's literally a *magnetic* field at baseband audio frequency (such as might be emitted by a loudspeaker coil) - the 'T' setting being originally intended to pick up the sound from a telephone[1] handset magnetically, thereby avoiding feedback from holding the handset too close to the hearing aid's microphone.

Some clever person (in a more innocent time, before the proliferation of stage lighting and modern electronics[2] with their stray magnetic fields) came up with the idea of stringing a wire around the room fed by a current amplifier in order to abuse that 'T' function to give hearing aid users direct access to a microphone up-close-and-personal with the person speaking, thereby improving the signal to noise ratio of what they're hearing.

The ubiquitous desk-mounted portable 'loop' system puts an appropriately-oriented induction coil, amplifier and microphone all in a neat single box with a sealed lead-acid battery (so you can carry it to the relevant desk/office and not faff with mains leads), and can be helpful for improving intelligibility at reception counter and bank-manager's-office type situations.

The gotcha with it being magnetism, apart from the receiver being susceptible to all sorts of interference, is that it doesn't propagate following the inverse square law like a radio signal.  The field will be highly directional (orthogonal to the plane of the coil), and will fall away with the *cube* of distance outside the loop.  If you've ever tried to make a wireless cycle computer work reliably, you know how finicky this stuff can be.


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Only it doesn't. It appears to be broken and, due to a change in committee, we have no documentation for it.

Almost certainly because it's been left unplugged (either by a chronic thing-unplugger, or by a committee who've never read the non-existent manual), with the inevitable effect on the gel cell battery.

I've had one of these apart.  It wasn't designed with serviceability in mind.


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Does the panel have any suggestions as to a replacement?

Connevans are the place to go for this sort of thing.  They're the Alpkit of the deaf gadget world:
 https://www.connevans.co.uk/catalogue/128/Loop-Amplifier-Systems


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Do the portable ones work reliably when not broken?

Yes, as long as you keep them plugged in so the battery doesn't deep-discharge.

As mentioned above, these units are for 1:1 conversations across a desk.  They're not for listening to a lecture or performance in a hall.


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How expensive and difficult would a proper loop system be?

Browsing Connevans' site should give you an idea.  Note that loop systems live or die by the quality of the audio signal you feed into them.  They're going to be no use if the speaker doesn't use the microphone, if the microphone is dangling down the back of a desk, if the system is switched off, or incorrectly adjusted.  A boundary effect microphone on a wall or ceiling means the system can be set up and ignored, but the benefit to a hearing aid user is likely to be less as it's further away from the speaker.

Karma is generally improved by integration with a PA system of some sort for hearing users.  That tends to mean that someone pays a bit of attention to whether the microphone is working and being used.

Note that hearing aid users are used the default state for loops systems being not working.  If there's a system installed in a room, they might switch to 'T', see if they can hear anything, and if it's not an improvement, give up.  If it's a sign saying "Portable loop available" they won't ask for it, because the usual response is "Is that the deaf thing at the back of the cupboard?  I don't know anything about that..." (This also applies to the receivers for infrared or radio based hearing systems[3].)

Also note that the 'T' function is an endangered species on some types of modern hearing aid.


[1] As in a thing with a dial[4] and a bell.  The speakers in most modern phone handsets emit little in the way of a magnetic field, unless deliberately designed to do so for the benefit of hearing aid users.
[2] Which have actually been improving since the heyday of CRT displays and linear power supplies.
[3] Typically encountered in settings where induction isn't appropriate, eg. because there's another cinema screen or lecture theatre on the other side of that wall, or because there's copious amounts of stage lighting inducing a 100Hz 'bzzzzz' in the area.
[4] Teenagers: Ask your parents.

Re: Hearing aid 'loops'
« Reply #3 on: 26 September, 2018, 07:56:49 pm »
Thank you, Kim.
It is vaguely typical of the previous committee that they have bought something which even if it did work, wouldn't actually do the job required!
I will have a good look at the page you've linked to. We have a few weeks before our next committee meeting which might give me the time to come up with some suggestions for them.

S
"No matter how slow you go, you're still lapping everybody on the couch."

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: Hearing aid 'loops'
« Reply #4 on: 26 September, 2018, 07:57:42 pm »
My thought is that many modern hearing aids no longer have loops.

A general sound field system to ensure the audio is spread properly across a larger room (quality of audio in source as above) may be a better investment. Or making sure there's basic speakers and good audio practices.

The other thought is you may be able to find manuals online for the gadget you have, it's probably worth doing a little troubleshooting cos it might still work if used properly.

Re: Hearing aid 'loops'
« Reply #5 on: 27 September, 2018, 07:55:32 am »
Note that hearing aid users are used the default state for loops systems being not working.  If there's a system installed in a room, they might switch to 'T', see if they can hear anything, and if it's not an improvement, give up.  If it's a sign saying "Portable loop available" they won't ask for it, because the usual response is "Is that the deaf thing at the back of the cupboard?  I don't know anything about that..." (This also applies to the receivers for infrared or radio based hearing systems)

^^^ This x 1,000 ^^^

I’ve given up even trying the T option in theatres. Because the settings on my hearing aids are controlled using my phone I need to decide which setting I’m going to use before the house lights go down, and at least 9 times out of 10 T proves completely useless so I just end up turning the volume control up to eleventy-stupid which does mean I can generally hear what going on on stage but also means every audience member cough and sweet wrapper rustle is deafening.

Is there anywhere on the net that ‘reviews’ different theatres’ hearing assistance facilities?
Eddington Number = 132

Re: Hearing aid 'loops'
« Reply #6 on: 27 September, 2018, 12:45:26 pm »
When my mum first got her hearing aid I was responsible for the church sound desk. We also had in the congregation and my house group a gent who worked on hiring and operating sound and lighting systems at temporary venues. Therefore I was able to borrow his meter for measuring the strength of the T field around the building. As the loop was installed at skirting board height around the edge of the building it worked best if you sat in the pews outside the side aisle rather than the pews near the center aisle. It also worked better if you were a little old lady with a hunched back rather than a tall gent with a straight back. The lack of visual sight lines from the side aisles to the pulpit were a problem that tended to drive people towards the central pews.

It turned out the best place to be was in the choir as the loop in the choir stalls was a better height, and the chancel being narrower resulted in the loop being closer to you.  :facepalm:

Kim

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Re: Hearing aid 'loops'
« Reply #7 on: 27 September, 2018, 01:18:29 pm »
at least 9 times out of 10 T proves completely useless so I just end up turning the volume control up to eleventy-stupid which does mean I can generally hear what going on on stage but also means every audience member cough and sweet wrapper rustle is deafening.

This is the point that most people don't understand about hearing assistance gadgets:  loop/IR systems or radio microphones worn by a teacher, mics placed on a table in a meeting, direct connection to a TV, or whatever.  They're not about making the desired sound *louder* - hearing aids do that perfectly well by themselves.  It's about improving the signal to noise ratio between the desired sound and other ambient noises.

People with normal hearing have stereo hearing, wide frequency response, outer ears doing subtle phase-shifty things, and brains that can process these subtle cues in order to concentrate on a sound from a given direction, to the rejection of ambient noise in the same band.  The so-called cocktail party effect.

A hearing aid, being a naive electronic device, effectively knobbles all that.  Ever recorded a meeting where you could hear everything perfectly clearly, but the recording turns out to be a cacophony of objects clunking, chairs scraping, projector fan noise, typing and so on?  That's what hearing aid users have to put up with.  Modern digital aids use some clever signal processing in an attempt to boost what the algorithm reckons might be speech vs sounds that are probably not speech, but that only gets you so far (it does very little when the noise is other people's conversations).

To get better results you have to do what the sound guys for film and television do: Carefully choose the best kind of microphone for the situation, and get it as close to the person speaking as possible, with a healthy dose of knob-twiddling for optimal results.  Sadly hearing aid users rarely have the budget to have Dave from Challenge Anneka following them around with a rat-onna-stick, so they have to make do with FM systems, induction loops and so on.

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: Hearing aid 'loops'
« Reply #8 on: 30 September, 2018, 02:30:46 pm »
Problem is headphones and hearing aids aren't very compatible. And you can't get the quality/amplification of a hearing aid from consumer level devices. One advantage I have with working loops etc is that I turn the external mic of the hearing aid off and ONLY hear what's coming through hearing assistance which if it works is brilliant.

A deaf person posted to one of the FB groups yesterday saying they'd gone to the theatre, booked hearing assistance, arrived to find no staff to give it to them, then just before lights down were given a headset device which was useless to her. We're encouraging her to complain cos only providing headset devices isn't appropriate for a large organisation.

Re: Hearing aid 'loops'
« Reply #9 on: 30 September, 2018, 06:34:20 pm »
Mrs R was given infrared headphones on our last visit to a cinema, James Bond it was, some years ago.  They worked only if you found a place where they received a signal and then didn't move the head at all.  Also they didn't have a soft muff just hard plastic which was wearable for about the length of time to took for for her to move her head.  Unfortunately it was an weekday evening performance and the foyer was deserted when we left so there was no opportunity to complain to anyone there and then.

At the last theatre visit she was given and iPid/Pad/Pod thing which received audio over wifi and connected via the headphone port on her streamer.  Worked very well.

Her aids do not have a loop facility but her streamer does, but to date has not been used.  The streamer mainly stays at home for TV and phone interfacing.