Hydraulic shifting

[jsabine]

Aye, Talbot Frameworks got an innovation award at Bespoked 2014 for it.

[mzjo]

Getting back to the hydraulic shifting (and speaking as someone who only has to look at bike electronics to turn them into a gibbering wreck) I like the idea. But I like desmodromic systems and, having used one in good condition, I liked the two cable Cyclo gear (sweet changing and very positive). If the hydraulic system is using a pull-off spring it is wasting the big potential advantage of fluid operation which is that it can push in both directions. Much too heavy for racing I know, but what a system for a touring or commuter bike! Nothing to fiddle with or wear out, seals could go the lifetime of the bike with the little work they have to do, set up once and go for eternity. What's not to like?

[mrcharly-YHT]

If the hydraulic system is using a pull-off spring it is wasting the big potential advantage of fluid operation which is that it can push in both directions. Much too heavy for racing I know, but what a system for a touring or commuter bike!

Using two pistons, one for upshift, one for down?
That really makes sense, and matches one of the benefits of the electric shifting.

[spesh]

If the hydraulic system is using a pull-off spring it is wasting the big potential advantage of fluid operation which is that it can push in both directions. Much too heavy for racing I know, but what a system for a touring or commuter bike!

Using two pistons, one for upshift, one for down?
That really makes sense, and matches one of the benefits of the electric shifting.

You don't need two pistons, just two lines to one piston, which is how it's done on heavy plant such as excavators, and it was how the Acros system (which I linked to up-thread) worked. I'll repost the link to the road version:

http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/09/03/eb13-prototype-road-bike-acros-a-ge-rda-hydraulic-shifters-derailleurs-w-formula-rr1-brakes/

[Cudzoziemiec]

Apparently the MTN-Qhubeka team is now testing this on a Cervelo.
http://road.cc/content/news/163666-mtn-qhubeka-pro-spotted-testing-cervelo-r3-disc-rotor-uno-hydraulic-groupset

The bit at the end about adjustments to keep chainstays short with disc brakes is actually more interesting, cos it doesn't say anthing about the hydraulic shifting.

[mrcharly-YHT]

If the hydraulic system is using a pull-off spring it is wasting the big potential advantage of fluid operation which is that it can push in both directions. Much too heavy for racing I know, but what a system for a touring or commuter bike!

Using two pistons, one for upshift, one for down?
That really makes sense, and matches one of the benefits of the electric shifting.

You don't need two pistons, just two lines to one piston, which is how it's done on heavy plant such as excavators, and it was how the Acros system (which I linked to up-thread) worked. I'll repost the link to the road version:

http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/09/03/eb13-prototype-road-bike-acros-a-ge-rda-hydraulic-shifters-derailleurs-w-formula-rr1-brakes/

I think I see how that works. So the fluid pushes against one face of the piston if going one direction, and the other face if going the other direction?

[Feanor]

Yes, that's right.
It's called a 'dual-piloted' cylinder, where pilot pressure can be applied to either side of the piston.
The opposite side will be opened to the reservoir, so it's not hydraulically locked.

This is standard hydraulics.

Some cylinders are 'single-piloted, and rely on manual, spring or gravity return.
eg  a fork lift can only push up.   It can't push down, it relies on gravity to lower.
They only have one hose going to them.

Some cylinders are dual-piloted, like digger arms that can push or pull.
They need 2 hoses; one each end.

[Morat]

I love a bit of shiny but honestly...
I've got 105 11spd on my cross bike and it shifts like a dream. I've also got a twelve (?) Year old Trek mtb with cheap 8spd Shimano which also shifts like a dream on the original cables. OK its had some adjustment over the years but I really don't see myself running out to replace it all with hydraulic gears.
It's more likely that I'll succumb to some devilish marketing and decide my next bike MUST HAVE hydraulic shifters or everyone will laugh at me for being the sort of old guy who prefers rod brakes.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Rotor's hydraulic shifting will be used by a women's pro team in 2018. So it does exist!
http://road.cc/content/tech-news/232536-rotors-uno-hydraulic-groupset-will-make-first-pro-peloton-appearance-2018

[Jurek]

http://tinyurl.com/yd4lab93
 


ETA - And that's with out the crankset.....

[mike]

http://tinyurl.com/yd4lab93
 


ETA - And that's with out the crankset.....

c'mon Jurek, where's your sense of fun?  It's only ^{75 pounds a month on finance!}

crikey.  People are going to buy that too. 

[Cudzoziemiec]

Wow. Might not see many outside the pro peleton. Though for comparison, a Di2 groupset is even more:
https://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-dura-ace-r9170-disc-di2-groupset-builder-103343.html?utm_campaign=googlebase-GB&utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shopping&utm_term=Road+Bike+Groupsets&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrsnkgZvN1wIVhbDtCh2aQAB0EAQYAyABEgJKMPD_BwE
But you can save about £800 by not going for discs (and it includes the crankset).

[Tim Hall]

http://tinyurl.com/yd4lab93
 


ETA - And that's with out the crankset.....

c'mon Jurek, where's your sense of fun?  It's only ^{75 pounds a month on finance!}

But the page Jurek linked to says I can save 100%.

MSP £ 2,400.00 , Save 100%

So that's free then.


Edit: tidied up the quoting

[zigzag]

i've tested one, works similar to sram shifters, there's a fair bit of effort to push the levers (but then i'm used to shimano which are very soft/easy). shifting is nice and precise and low maintenance (if you're not a tinkerer). not all bike frames are compatible with uninterrupted gear and brake cables though - something to consider before the upgrade.

[DuncanM]

Wow. Might not see many outside the pro peleton. Though for comparison, a Di2 groupset is even more:
https://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-dura-ace-r9170-disc-di2-groupset-builder-103343.html?utm_campaign=googlebase-GB&utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shopping&utm_term=Road+Bike+Groupsets&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrsnkgZvN1wIVhbDtCh2aQAB0EAQYAyABEgJKMPD_BwE
But you can save about £800 by not going for discs (and it includes the crankset).

And Campag Record is more for rim brakes:
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/campagnolo-record-eps-v3-groupset/?lang=en&curr=GBP&dest=1&sku=100283304&kpid=100283304&utm_source=google&utm_term&utm_campaign=UK_PLA_Components&utm_medium=base&utm_content=mckv%7csRTLxwgky_dc%7cmcrid%7c67090789142%7cmkw%7c%7cmmt%7c%7cmrd%7c100283304uk%7cmslid%7c%7c&mkwid=sRTLxwgky_dc&pcrid=67090789142&prd=100283304uk&pgrid=17507338142&ptaid=pla-121254322622
I couldn't find a Super Record EPS group.

[mzjo]

http://tinyurl.com/yd4lab93
 


ETA - And that's with out the crankset.....

c'mon Jurek, where's your sense of fun?  It's only ^{75 pounds a month on finance!}

crikey.  People are going to buy that too.

It's only 74€ a month. Is that the Brexit factor being added in? Still more than my bike budget for the next 10 years!

[Tigerbiten]

I've just found out you can now get hydraulic shifters for a Rohloff ..... 
But at a silly price ..... 
https://www.cyclingabout.com/2017-bpod-pshr-trigger-brings-hydraulic-shifting-to-rohloff-hub/