Author Topic: Gas vs wood fuel technical question  (Read 15905 times)

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #75 on: 07 January, 2016, 06:24:58 pm »
Yeah my brother paid £1400 for the chimney lining, preparing the fireplace and a black steel insert (stove was bought 2nd second hand) so I thought my quote seemed huge in comparison, not even as expensive a stove as a Sqrl. Had 2 quotes of that magnitude as well!
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Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #76 on: 07 January, 2016, 06:33:14 pm »
We didn't have a flue fitted as the installer assured us that we didn't need it and it complied with regulations.

Good luck finding a reasonable quote, Mrs P!

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #77 on: 07 January, 2016, 06:35:58 pm »
Haha, judging by all the leaks in this place there's no way i'd trust it unlined  :-\
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Aunt Maud

  • Le Flâneur.
Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #78 on: 07 January, 2016, 06:36:37 pm »
Wow, that's a lot of money !!

Don't buy a secondhand Morsø Squirrel, as they have a reputation for cracking after being moved and re-installed.

BTW, if anyone's coming to Denmark with a car, second hand Morsø stoves are going for a song. I bought a good used 3440 for £300.00

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #79 on: 07 January, 2016, 06:52:30 pm »
Wow, that's a lot of money !!


I thought so!
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Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #80 on: 07 January, 2016, 07:02:37 pm »
Our Morsø S10 plus installation was about £3k, from the place in Stonehaven.

There was no existing lum, so it was a stove pipe up through the ceiling and through a void space, and then penetrating the tiled roof with some flashing kit which seems water-tight.

(The buggers did hack-saw through one of my cable ducts in the void space, cutting several of CT-100, Cat6 and alarm cables in the process.)

Aunt Maud

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Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #81 on: 07 January, 2016, 07:15:35 pm »
Wow, that's a lot of money !!


I thought so!

Is that for one of those spiral wound steel liners and vermiculite fill ?

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #82 on: 07 January, 2016, 08:55:44 pm »
Wow, that's a lot of money !!


I thought so!

Is that for one of those spiral wound steel liners and vermiculite fill ?


This is the quote, it was just an over the phone job so not bottomed out with a site visit or owt.
Screenshot_2016-01-07-20-50-50-1 by The Pingus, on Flickr
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Mrs Pingu

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Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #83 on: 07 January, 2016, 08:58:36 pm »
Our Morsø S10 plus installation was about £3k, from the place in Stonehaven.

One of the £4.5k estimates was from Stoney.
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Feanor

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Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #84 on: 07 January, 2016, 09:42:10 pm »
The installation via the auld lum may be more expensive, I don't know.

What I do know is that I would not go back, and that if I were transported back in time and told it would be 4.5k instead of 3k, would I still sign on the dotted line?
Yes. Yes I would.


Mrs Pingu

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Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #85 on: 07 January, 2016, 10:40:28 pm »
I need to throw money at the bloke from Kirriemuir to make it worth his while for a trip up. It's gotta be less than 2 grand for a bung ;)
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Aunt Maud

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Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #86 on: 08 January, 2016, 05:17:50 pm »
I need to throw money at the bloke from Kirriemuir to make it worth his while for a trip up. It's gotta be less than 2 grand for a bung ;)

<Cough> HMRC </Cough>

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #87 on: 08 January, 2016, 07:43:39 pm »
I need to throw money at the bloke from Kirriemuir to make it worth his while for a trip up. It's gotta be less than 2 grand for a bung ;)

<Cough> HMRC </Cough>

It's OK, apparently the info i'd been given by a colleague was in error and this bloke does actually come to Aberdeen, so no bungs needed ;)
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Mrs Pingu

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Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #88 on: 10 January, 2016, 02:15:10 pm »
I was thinking about getting the liner etc installed when the scaffolding etc is up, but my bruvva reckons I should wait til it's all finished and I can see it's dry or I will have steam all over the place..... ??
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Aunt Maud

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Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #89 on: 10 January, 2016, 08:08:45 pm »
Get the burner fired up.......or.......

(click to show/hide)

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #90 on: 10 January, 2016, 08:18:52 pm »
I must admit I wasn't convinced by the steam argument, although I do need to get this latest leak fixed. Having done some more reading though I'm moving away from the idea of insulating with vermiculite, given its propensity for absorbing water.
Am pondering a CCTV flue survey. When I poked my head up there last night I could see a clay liner, though I guess this is only part way up or where does the mortar keep coming from. And the flue changed direction, unexpectedly disappearing off the opposite way to what I expected.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Aunt Maud

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Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #91 on: 10 January, 2016, 08:23:13 pm »
If you've got access to a yoof with a go-pro, a bit of string and a torch you can do your own survey and save quids.


Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #92 on: 10 January, 2016, 08:59:57 pm »
A yoof onna roof, presumably

Aunt Maud

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Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #93 on: 11 January, 2016, 12:53:23 pm »
Oh I dunno, I think Vermiculite fill would be a good idea, as you'll get notice when your steel liner eventually disintegrates and the Vermiculite blocks the remainder of the liner. Really, the last thing you want is a hole in the liner with no fill as that could cause you lots of trouble down the line.

If it was mine, I'd get up on the scaffolding, stuff a liner down it and backfill with vermiculite, install the burner, stick a pot on it and flaunch it and light it up, making sure it's fired correctly with well seasoned wood.

I wouldn't use kiln dried because of the environmental issue, and also because a lot of kiln dried timber comes from Russia. So not are you negating any carbon offset with the forced drying, but you're also adding 1600km+ and a trip in a container ship to the pollution. Luckily I own several small Birch, Beech and Hazel coppice, so it's easy for me to say that.

<cough> Even though I have a lousy splitting technique, I still manage OK. </cough>

So really, you'd do well to get Lars Myttings book, reading it and following the firing instructions and try to source a quality supply of local coppiced hardwood. Initially you may have to buy kiln dried to start burning now, but if you've got the space dry it yourself for next year. It takes a bit of effort, but if you care about carbon offsetting, it's the only way to do it. Even so, it won't ever be carbon neutral, as you've still got to transport it from somewhere, unless you plant way more than you consume.

If you have a steel flue liner, stay clear of kiln dried Oak and Sweet Chestnut, as they become highly acidic after being kiln dried and are best air dried.

I wouldn't put it off any longer and just get on with it. The leaks will hopefully be fixed when the pointing is done in the spring. What you need now is lots of heat to start drying it all out or it will just get worse and you'll end up rotting some timber somewhere if you leave it.

You'll need to fire a lot when you have a leaky stack though.

Jaded

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Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #94 on: 11 January, 2016, 03:06:48 pm »
what about an insulated liner?

Oh, and chimneys seem to do lots of weird things. You might be able to see the path of the chimney on the outside wall if sulphates have passed through the stone. The granite may not be porous enough though.
It is simpler than it looks.

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #95 on: 11 January, 2016, 05:05:12 pm »
I don't think it'd be a good idea to get a liner installed just now as when the pointing gets done the flaunching for all 4 pots up there will be too, and they're going to inspect the coping at the same time in case it needs a seeing to. I assume if they need to take it apart that'd be my liner getting in the way.
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Aunt Maud

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Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #96 on: 11 January, 2016, 05:34:29 pm »
Shouldn't do. Its just screwed into a register plate under the pot. Once the Vermiculite is in place and the stove installed, you'll be able to take the pot on and off easily as the flue liner doesn't go up inside the pot.

It'll be self supporting anyway.

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #97 on: 12 January, 2016, 09:00:39 pm »
Traditional masonry bloke suggested the stove fitter doing the liner while the scaffolding is up. He said yes to vermiculite but recommended mixing it with mortar so that if it gets wet it doesn't slump.  :-\
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Aunt Maud

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Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #98 on: 12 January, 2016, 09:18:28 pm »
The steel liner won't last forever. If you put mortar or anything else in to stiffen the vermiculite, you'll have a hell of a time fitting a new liner when the time comes.

The liner is quite thin steel, like a tin can, but wound in  a spiral. Eventually it gets eaten away by the hot flue gasses and if you're unlucky to get rainwater in the liner regularly, rain and soot combo is very acidic.

You can always top it up when you get the other stuff done to the stack in the spring. If you've still got water running down the inside of the flue or walls after that work has been done, your builder has missed something major.


Mrs Pingu

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Re: Gas vs wood fuel technical question
« Reply #99 on: 12 January, 2016, 09:24:05 pm »
I thought it seemed a bit permanent too. Will see what the stove dude says when he comes for a nosey.
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