Author Topic: Tidying up a .gpx for Garmin Vista HCX & City Navigator for FollowRoad routing  (Read 5122 times)

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
A correspondent asked me to have a look at a .gpx for a 300km route with a view to tidying it up and making it suitable for 'Follow Road' routing on a Garmin Vista Hcx with CityNavigator with the rejoinder 'be sure to tell me what you did so I can do it next time'. So with that in mind I thought I'd document my approach here so he can do it himself this time. Heh heh.

Opening the GPX using Mapsource the immediate issue was that the route consisted of 98 Viapoints of which about 90% described the first half of the route(!?!). The problem here is that (IME) under certain conditions the GPS will ignore Viapoints in FollowRoad mode, which is bad, and the return leg was vastly underpopulated with checkpoints, also bad.

Essentially there are four things to do:

1) Convert the Viapoints to Waypoints.

Viapoints are easily recogniseable because the properties are non-editable in Mapsource, they are literally just placemarkers. When you view the Viapoint properties, all the fields are greyed out. In contrast Waypoints are editable. You can give them user friendly names and select appropriate marker types (flags).

To convert Viapoints to Waypoints I use a freeware utility called WINGDB3 (google for it). It will perform a number of transformations on GDB routes and tracks, #1 in the list being convert Via points to Waypoints.

2) Review the route to make sure the waypoints are where you want 'em , and give them appropriate names

Some GPS aficionados use the name field to number the waypoints with junction descriptions but that's a bit oldskool for me. I prefer to use simple descriptive town/road names. If you go off route for some reason (visit to cafe, bikeshop, supermarket, whatever), its easier to pickup the route again by asking the GPS to goto a waypoint called 'town name' rather then '34 SOX'. More to the point, I place Waypoints in the middle of a road sections rather than at junctions as (a) if you place the waypoint on the junction, the GPS will display a warning of the impending waypoint rather than instruct you how to navigate the junction and (b) you will need far fewer Waypoints if you mark key roads you need to pass through instead of every junction.

3) Tidy up the Waypoint flags so Main and Info controls are clearly identifiable

Open the route, select all the Waypoints, click on Waypoint properties and select an appropriate default flag. I use Blue for 'route' waypoints, then do the same for the main controls (red) and Infos (green). Using a GPS its real easy to sail past Infos oblivious of their existence!

4) Divide the route into sections with a maximum of 50 Waypoints, which is the maximum allowed in FollowRoad mode.   

I aim to set the interval between Waypoints such that the route between them is fairly unabiguous and find this generally allows a 200km route to be described in less than 50 waypoints, i.e., one route 'file'. For a 300km I'd break it down into two route files. To divide the route up into sections, select the route, right click and click on 'Duplicate Route'. Then open the new route and clear the 'auto rename' checkbox, rename it as appropriate and delete the Waypoints for the first half of the route, then do the same for the original route, setting it up to cover the first half. If you get it wrong you can transfer blocks of Waypoints between routes using 'cut and paste'. Just make sure you keep a backup!

As is often the way its often easier to simply start from scratch, in which case my approach would be to set Waypoints for all the main and info controls using red and green flags, then flesh out the route with blue flags using the principles described above. YPYMATYC.

Of course, there are other approaches. You might prefer to load the route into Bikely and edit the route from there, or maybe you prefer to use tracks, in which case you can use WINGDB3 to generate a 'track.gdb' from your 'route.gdb'. You can use 'cut and paste' to copy the tracks back into your route gdb so that way you have both dynamically generated route and static track information on the GPS for a 'belt and braces' approach. Note that you will need to 'filter' the tracks down to 500 trackpoints (see track properties) to prevent them being truncated on loading onto the GPS.

Hours of fun? Well it sounds like a lot of work but isn't really. Still, at least when you setoff you will be familiar with the route!

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
All good advice, Man'o.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Use setting for car and "shortest distance" - shortest time tends to direct you to the nearest expressway.  Sometimes the stupid thing will pick a route up a dead-end road and put in a U-turn, and the only way to weed these out is to run a simulation on the device itself.  Use as few waypoints as possible - there's a limit of 50.  Generally on rural roads it will pick the obvious route anyway, and you might not be bothered if it's slightly different to the way you would have gone.

Sadly there's no "avoid big climbs" option.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Thanks for posting this Manotea.

I'm way behind you in terms of experience with these things, but a couple of things...

Interesting that you use the follow road option for Audax, and find 50 waypoints is fine for a 200. Obviously by using 'follow road' you're asking the GPS unit to generate the route for you, based on where your waypoints are [It took me a while to realise what Mapsource might generate was not going to necessarily be the same as that shown by the the GPS device.] Obviously you're still happy to allow for a small margin of 'route error' by choosing follow road, in that GPS units can do odd things sometimes, but essentially the postion of the waypoints should make the route pretty much accurate.

Do you use a track in conjunction with the follow road method as a way of comparison on the day?

I haven't used my unit much yet, but in 'follow road' mode [using waypoints only] I was really impressed with the way the unit gave direction instructions before junctions, and how useful this was particularly at night time.

Waypoints I get, tracks I get, but route points I'm struggling with, particularly with these greyed out properties that you mentioned in your post. I tried plotting a small local route using the route tool without any waypoints and got a cluttered screen of all the names of the routepoints [not named by me], as in RP021 or the like. And the direction warning system didn't seen to work in the same way either.

Tomorrow, on the CCB I'm going real bare bones with tracks [one for each section]. As well as the routesheet. Of course  :)

..all interesting stuff. There is much to learn.
Garry Broad

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
I find placing waypoints midpoint on key roads rather than on junctions and placing them judiciously such that there is only one sensible route between them goes a long way towards keeping the GPS on the routesheet, to the extent that I don't bother generating tracks as a backup. The main drawback in using FollowRoad routes is it makes it difficult to handle off route sections , which is as you might expect, but in practice its not often an issue.

plug

If you already know the route you want to take (i.e you have an audax route or you're plotting it on a map), why rely on gps device auto-routing at all?  You already know the answer, so it seems a bit hit-and-miss try and nudge the device into coming to the same conclusion.

As you say, when faced with someone else's GPS track or route, or a route on Bikely, I just start from scratch and make up my own route using the original as a visual guide.  It really takes very little time.  Now making a .gpx route from an audax routesheet, that can be a little more time-consuming  ;).
The sound of one pannier flapping

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
If you already know the route you want to take (i.e you have an audax route or you're plotting it on a map), why rely on gps device auto-routing at all?  You already know the answer, so it seems a bit hit-and-miss try and nudge the device into coming to the same conclusion.

The workaround is thus: Set your route points to sensible junctions and villages, and if the machine goes bonkers, just turn off "follow roads" for a bit.   :thumbsup:
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
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rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
If you already know the route you want to take (i.e you have an audax route or you're plotting it on a map), why rely on gps device auto-routing at all?  You already know the answer, so it seems a bit hit-and-miss try and nudge the device into coming to the same conclusion.

Simple - it's the only way to get directions at each junction.  Otherwise there is a risk of missing a turn which isn't apparent from the map - an example from last year's Dun Run that claimed a few victims is the A1141 in Lavenham, where the A-road turns at a T-junction on the map, it may just be a tight bend.

Google Maps

There are a lot of A-roads that are just joined-up collections of other roads like this - the A4095 in Oxfordshire is a crazy one.

You can use 250 waypoints and use the "off road" option, but then you just have a crude pointer and you can start overshooting junctions where the direction is ambiguous (e.g. a left-hand turn on a left-hand bend).
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

plug

Different approaches, I suppose.  I only use 'follow-road' on-device routing if I don't know where I am or how to get where I'm going.  Otherwise, I'll follow the route I planned, as a track, like following a highlighted bit of map, with waypoints for places of interest, like controls, pubs, cafes, whatever.

Martin

I'm the dummy correspondent in question

I tried downloading the program and it said it converted the viapoints to waypints but they are still viapoints on my device.

If I set the device to Navigate on shortest route it natch expects me to start the route from my house (via Ashdown Forest FFS) ; but even when I get to the start of the 300 it takes me all round the houses - in fact back via my house-  rather than along the A272 which is the most direct route and more or less comprises the first half of the ride (and yes I've put a few waypoints along this road too but will the bloody thing take me to them directly?).

any other suggestions for a "dry run"of the route in follow road mode ? ??? or will it all come right once I'm actually at the start?


Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
If you already know the route you want to take (i.e you have an audax route or you're plotting it on a map), why rely on gps device auto-routing at all?  You already know the answer, so it seems a bit hit-and-miss try and nudge the device into coming to the same conclusion.
Its a fair question. I use follow road because I especially want alert on junctions/waypoints with backlight.  Apparently you get something similar with trackback but the alerts are driven by a change of direction. I haven't tried that though.

If you already know the route you want to take (i.e you have an audax route or you're plotting it on a map), why rely on gps device auto-routing at all?  You already know the answer, so it seems a bit hit-and-miss try and nudge the device into coming to the same conclusion.
Its a fair question. I use follow road because I especially want alert on junctions/waypoints with backlight.

As far as Audax night riding goes , this has to be a big plus for the waypoint way, follow road option.

I don't know if Trackback[which I really don't understand at all] or using the route tool has the same effect, I'm yet to get the hang of these two things.

Today on the Chiltern Cotswold 200 I used a track, split into 4 separate tracks, one for each section punctuated by a control. It worked very well. It's a very 'dead' way of using the Vista hpx compared to the direction alerts that are possible with waypoints, but I think my personal preference for audax gps navigation, is for tracks....certainly for now. I want the exact route, with no variables. Easy to program, easy to map on the unit, easy to follow. For audax I don't want the unit bleeping at me every time I'm approaching a junction telling what to do. I've read the routesheet for heavens sake. But I do very much want it to do that if I don't know where I'm going. Then it's a god send. The big drawback using tracks is at night. Compared to the direction alert system that lights up the gps when you approach a junction or waypoint it's pretty lacking, but I just rigged up a small led above the unit on a piece of wire and I could see the screen fine....just about :-) With tracks, I also wonder if it's best to plot the track [highlighted in green as FF recommends] not actually overlaid on the road, but slightly to the side of the road. A couple of times the superimposed track made the map interface a bit difficult to make out. Putting the track to the side, leaves the junction layout a bit clearer.

Sorry going off topic a bit  :)

Garry Broad

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
I tried downloading the program and it said it converted the viapoints to waypints but they are still viapoints on my device.

Was Pubsource the program? Sounds like my kind of mapping software.
It is simpler than it looks.

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
I use follow road because I especially want alert on junctions/waypoints with backlight.
As far as Audax night riding goes , this has to be a big plus for the waypoint way, follow road option.
I don't know if Trackback[which I really don't understand at all] or using the route tool has the same effect, I'm yet to get the hang of these two things.

All 3 methods - follow road, off road and trackback - all generate prompts which light up at night.  Follow road prompts are undeniably nicer than the others though.
On my old Legend C model, in (my preferred) off-road mode it throws up a zoomed-in turn preview map, regardless of what screen you're using - the later models Cx and HCx don't do this in off-road mode but I think it still works in follow road.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

I tried downloading the program and it said it converted the viapoints to waypints but they are still viapoints on my device.

Was Pubsource the program? Sounds like my kind of mapping software.
here you are