Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => Topic started by: telstarbox on 13 April, 2024, 01:59:21 pm
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Say for 200s / 300s when it's above freezing :-)
I have a mish mash of base layers, jerseys and £50 level shorts which are fine but I have been thinking about upgrading. I know there are a lot of makes out there now, so any items you would rate or slate?
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Clothes
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Above freezing is a pretty wide range, care to narrow down both the temps and conditions you want items for? Plus whether you run and hot or cold and examples of what you currently wear for different conditions would be useful.
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I am a bulky person (currently BMI of 31is) so I tend to favour brands which have xxxl.
Cold and damp I wear base layer (merino) with Heavy duty Showerpass jacket (all vents open) and spare baselayers in the rack pack.
When dry thick, medium and thin long sleeve jackets depending on temp with merino base layer until warm enough for short sleeve. Cheap chinese tops for summer as they seem to understand xxxl and do lots of jazzy designs, zips can be a bit naff though.
For shorts Altura/Endura /Assos discount shop.
Assos longs for over shorts in Winter
Windstopper longs with built in seat for shorter winter rides.
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Chanel No 9
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I’m more a dix-neuf fille…
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I've often wondered!
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I’m a fan of mesh base layers in cold or damp conditions. Not to everyone’s tastes though. For warm I tend to go for very lightweight merino short sleeve with spf protection built in. I tend to wear mountaineering layers rather than bike specific with one active insulation layer over base then a windproof on top if it warrants it. Sometimes just windproof over base if warmer but damp.
This is one of the two mid layers I choose from for audax, as well as mountaineering etc. I used to have shelled versions (well still do as this stuff never dies, but they don’t get used on the bike as much now) but find having a non windproof one works better for heat management covering much wider range of temps and exertion levels. Depends what kind of budget you have to work with as prices seem to have risen steeply for this top.
https://rab.equipment/uk/alpha-flash-jacket
If what you currently do works for you pretty well, you could just stick with it, more of the same.
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I wouldn't assume that 'upgrade' == 'better', at least in terms of price.
I'd say more important than anything else is to have shorts that are comfortable. The YACF-specific ones produced back in the day (Endura?) were great. I had some expensive Rapha ones, which looked good, but didn't really offer any more comfort or benefit for audaxing.
Second most important is a waterproof top that suits your body temperature regime (for me, I tend to overheat easily so thinner and plenty of breathability).
As for the rest, layers and comfortable fit, which isn't particularly price sensitive.
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Disclaimer that I no longer ride audaxes.
{edit} Also I wrote this without properly reading the question being about "above zero" - but I'll leave it intact anyway.
My solution for cold and very cold conditions was a Buffalo Windshirt sometimes with a merino vest.
I never had a problem with cold legs, but overshoes were essential to keep my feet comfortable. Lobster gloves with long cuffs for hands but don't underestimate the value of good bar tape.
On top it was a Buff to keep my neck toasty with an army surplus fleece lined hat that converted to a balaclava type thing.
Backside comfort is a very personal arrangement between you and your saddle - as a generalisation your summer shorts with 'longs' over them may work for you.
I'll suggest that getting wet (rain, snow or sweat) is more deadly than purely getting cold - and avoiding that is probably the key.
Some people run hot, some run cold - clothing advice can only ever be a broad sweep of personal opinion.
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(http://img.over-blog.com/500x375/4/08/11/35/photos2/a28SophieMatter.jpg)
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Good shorts are essential: I always used Assos and applied their lube as well. Always had a mini-pot of the stuff in the HB bag. Other than that I never bothered with base-layers and top layers: I just put on an extra jersey or two when it was cold and a rainproof on top if needed - all stuff that could be bundled into a saddlebag easily.
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Good shorts and comfortable shoes are essential (not necessarily expensive). Other stuff is less important. I tend to dress cool (encourages me to ride a little harder) and I avoid wearing too many layers. Arm and leg warmers are easy to put on and take off quickly. A Shakedry rain-jacket is the least obnoxious of its type but it is delicate and now out of production.
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Like T42, I found jerseys on top of jerseys a good thing. For summer rides going into night, a short sleeve jersey for day, which would often be too hot for a base layer underneath, then a long-sleeve one on top of it for the night.
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Whatever works. I've found it hard to correlate between brands and successful outcomes. I'm still using an Altura rain jacket that I first used on the Bryan Chapman in 2007. I had a pair of Madison gloves that lasted for about 10 years. There are only two constants - Assos shorts are worth the extra cost. And I use a Goretex kidney warmer, which keeps the gut warm - and helps me digest food / avoid stomach issues.
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Decent shorts that aren't worn out. I've got some that are fine for commuting or sub 40 mile rides, but for 200+ I'll always wear whichever shorts are fairly new.
Top stuff depends on temp range. Layers if it's going to be a wide range. But if it's going to stay under 10⁰ then I'll probably wear a jacket with another jersey underneath.
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Another vote for Assos shorts. Bloody expensive. Eye wateringly so. Worth every penny. Sudocrem helps.
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Good shorts and comfortable shoes are essential (not necessarily expensive). Other stuff is less important. I tend to dress cool (encourages me to ride a little harder) and I avoid wearing too many layers. Arm and leg warmers are easy to put on and take off quickly. A Shakedry rain-jacket is the least obnoxious of its type but it is delicate and now out of production.
Are they not making shakedry jackets anymore (via Gore or any of the licensees)? I have one and love it. Unfortunately I have gotten bigger, but the jacket has not kept pace. I keep putting off looking for a larger size, maybe now for too long.
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https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/the-future-of-waterproof-clothing-one-year-closer-to-the-pfas-ban/
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Paramo's stuff works, it will keep you dry but your eyes will water at the price
https://paramo-clothing.com/en-gb/our-ethics/pfc-free/
The cheapest I could find a "Velez Adventure Light Smock" (which is the water proof suitable for cycling) was £213
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Gulp.
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Paramo's stuff works, it will keep you dry but your eyes will water at the price
It will also outlast almost anything else you buy.
My Paramo general-use jacket is worn most days and is over 25 years old
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Well, I see I am well out of the know...discontinued for 2 years.
Thank you for the tip on Paramo. That is indeed eye watering. That's even more than I paid for the Shakedry (not in GBP) and I was scandalized at the price then. I also heard great things about Showers Pass, but I bought a pair of their waterproof gloves and they simply weren't waterproof (even a little bit).
In the spirit of the thread, what is your rain clothes strategy (I know most of you are in the UK so, just strategy then :P). I found that even with the very thin rain jacket I really was only thankful to have it in short down pours, rain with temps less than say 13 or once when getting wet just before a long descent. If I had to wear it any longer or any warmer I was wet anyway, though it was a warm wet so that was something. I never leave without shoe covers, but I've never worn rain pants outside of commuting.
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Thin, cheap, lightweight, waterproof but not breathable jacket.
On as soon as it’s wet, zip open when the rain stops, off when starting to feel hot.
Exercising folk perspire MUCH faster than the moisture vapour permeability of ‘breathable’ fabrics.
Gore-Tex is good in the winter but a waste of money in the summer...
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Paramo is expensive but it works, both for waterproofing and – even more so – for breathability. And while it's expensive compared to eg Endura, it's cheap compared to some of the high-end hiking stuff. However, it is really better for hiking and general outdoor use (outdoor? obviously you're not going to wear it indoors!) than cycling IMO. It tends to be a bit warmer than membrane jackets for a start, and the cut is certainly not aerodynamic. The hoods are great though.
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Paramo kit also tends to have nice chunky zips and big pockets - both sadly lacking in a lot of cycling specific clothes.
And most women's clothes....
Confession - on a recent audax I returned from the farm shop to the finish with a large cheese scone in one pocket and two curd tarts in the other.
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My rain clothes strategy involves my base, and active insulation layer working in conjunction with an air permeable windproof outer. I find I’m far more comfortable than any waterproof I’ve tried (including Paramo). Haven’t worn a waterproof on bike for about 10 years now.
No more boil in the bag and often times less damp, even after many hours, than I got when I had a waterproof on. You see waterproofs (other than paramo designs) don’t actively move liquid water / sweat to the outside, plus they generate much higher humidity within your layers, which causes water vapour to condense on the inside of the cold outer or makes it impossible for sweat to evaporate, and this soaks in to the layers between if your only strategy for rain was a waterproof jacket and no thought on what goes under it.
Not for everyone but it works for me, as someone who runs warm.
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Other than that I never bothered with base-layers and top layers:
Your base layer is whatever is next to your skin and top layer whatever is outermost. But I see you just used the same type of garment for all purposes.
I see these layers in this way.
1. Base layer allows sweat to evaporate (else it can’t cool you), plus absorbs very little of it or water, allowing your skin to stay as dry as possible whether it’s raining or sunny,
2. Insulation layer is basically scaffolding for air as an insulator. Generally has hollow fibres and a large surface area. Moves liquid sweat and water away from the base layer towards the outside surface. Not windproof to offer the most flexibility.
3. Windproof / shell. Slows ingress of outside elements such as wind and snow and wind. Allows the egress of liquid sweat and water to the outside. Allows a limited amount of air through (air permeable windproof) to stop humidity levels building if you’re working moderately hard.
You can combine 1 and 2 or 1 and 3 or 1,2,3 as conditions dictate but often you can wear the same combination over a wide range of conditions and temps and remain comfortable neither overheating nor chilling nor needing to stop to change layers every 30 mins etc.
There may also be a fourth layer, additional insulation, you throw over the top (or under windproof) either when stopped for more than a short while or you need a bit more warmth overnight.
The layer principle only works on the basis you actually take them off as well as put them on. Often when cycling we are loath to stop to do that, and even more loath to take off things off when adding a different layer. Adding a windproof / shell warms you up and that might mean removing an insulation layer, before you put them on. But we don’t do this, so overheat, sweat, then chill despite more layers. More flexible layers for wider ranges of conditions often works better in this way as well.
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I also heard great things about Showers Pass, but I bought a pair of their waterproof gloves and they simply weren't waterproof (even a little bit).
I have their Elite 2.1 jacket and it is indeed great for autumn/winter/spring. Totally waterproof unless you overdo the ventilation. A lovely orange-yellow by day and apparently very visible reflectives in the dark. But it's too warm for summer, doesn't pack down very small, and is a bit flappy. I wish they'd make a lighter version.
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Bought a Gore Shakedry jacket before 2019 PBP . It's so light that it's my regular audax jacket .
When it chucks it down , you're going to be wetter than a wet thing anyway so carrying a heavier jacket for a small gain in shelter isn't for me.
They are still available on ebay.
+1 for Assos shorts but they are not infallible as I found out on LEL-ouch.
In hot weather the choice of bum cream and its regular use seems more important than the shorts.
Have just bought some lightweight Giordana three quarter length shorts and the pad is very comfy.
Often carry 3/4s as second pair for 400/600 events as they are useful at night.
On top it's usually a short sleeved jersey with a vest if it's hot or merino base if it's cooler. Plus arm warmers.
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The layer principle only works on the basis you actually take them off as well as put them on. Often when cycling we are loath to stop to do that, and even more loath to take off things off when adding a different layer. Adding a windproof / shell warms you up and that might mean removing an insulation layer, before you put them on. But we don’t do this, so overheat, sweat, then chill despite more layers. More flexible layers for wider ranges of conditions often works better in this way as well.
This is for sure a struggle for me. If only I had the bike handling of Sagan and could basically do an entire outfit change while descending at 70kmh.
One thing that did help was leaving the winter jacket for all but the coldest or longest rides. It's mostly because I don't have anywhere to put it unless I'm running a tail fin bag and then I never take it off even when I should. Unless temps will not go over 10, I leave it.
Arm and leg warmers with a wind proof gilet and armless wool base layer just in case have gotten me through a lot and the added benefit that they are easy to get on and off (and in and out of a pocket) so I actually do it. Gilet can be swapped for the Shakedry as needed and they pack down enough to carry both.
Shoe covers though, I can't get it right. The neoprene ones make my feet sweat so bad and the thin waterproof ones breathe well for me, but are so hard to get on and off I usually don't until it's too late and my feet are already wet.
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A Shakedry rain-jacket is the least obnoxious of its type but it is delicate and now out of production.
out of production due to phasing out of forever chemicals, as I understand it. I love mine, small and lightweight and used as often for warmth as for dryness. But they do come up really small and have no stretch in them.
Another vote for Assos shorts. Bloody expensive. Eye wateringly so. Worth every penny. Sudocrem helps.
I was upsold a pair of these before LEL. Expensive but I did not regret it. I keep them exclusively for audax, and use lesser shorts for shorter rides. My view is the number of washes is probably what defines the life of shorts not the number of kms.
Sudocrem for after riding, decent chamois cream for before if available, otherwise double up on sudocrem.
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Conotrane rather than sudocreme. No white stains. Just as cheap or even cheaper.
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Another vote for Assos shorts. Bloody expensive. Eye wateringly so. Worth every penny. Sudocrem helps.
I was upsold a pair of these before LEL. Expensive but I did not regret it. I keep them exclusively for audax, and use lesser shorts for shorter rides. My view is the number of washes is probably what defines the life of shorts not the number of kms.
I bought 3 pairs before PBP 2015 and used them until earlier this year. I've had a couple of other makes - Ekoi and Castelli i.a. - but the pads are monolithic and stiff. Assos's are really two pads, one for each buttock, with a flexible piece in between, and they stay put and move with you whereas the others tend to move away from where they ought to be.
I have 3 new pairs now and they'll probably see me out.
The other half of what you "wear" on your nethers is, of course, your saddle. Nothing beats worn-in leather.