Author Topic: Piano Humidity Matters  (Read 8922 times)

redshift

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Re: Piano Humidity Matters
« Reply #25 on: 24 January, 2017, 09:53:46 pm »
For most of my childhood our family piano lived with a bucket of water under it, in a room which happened to face North, and therefore suffered less from extremes of hot and cold and humidity through the year.  That seemed to work.
L
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hellymedic

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Re: Piano Humidity Matters
« Reply #26 on: 24 January, 2017, 10:01:32 pm »
Do wind players actually shift more gas per minute than others?

Hyperventilation makes some people feel unwell and spilling breath condensate on the floor is a waste really. Perhaps percussionists and conductors jump around more and breathe more deeply...

ETA It strikes me that the 'musicians' that would add most moisture to the air would be be a close-packed choir, simply because you could cram the largest number of breathing humans into a given space.

Re: Piano Humidity Matters
« Reply #27 on: 25 January, 2017, 12:13:15 am »
Do wind players actually shift more gas per minute than others?

They do. When I started playing the flute I would get dizzy but acclimatised after a while. The difference for me between cycling and playing the flute is cycling means that my body needs more oxygen whereas playing a flute the body has to cope with the extra oxygen is gets through all the blowing.

hellymedic

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Re: Piano Humidity Matters
« Reply #28 on: 25 January, 2017, 12:20:44 am »
Do wind players actually shift more gas per minute than others?

They do. When I started playing the flute I would get dizzy but acclimatised after a while. The difference for me between cycling and playing the flute is cycling means that my body needs more oxygen whereas playing a flute the body has to cope with the extra oxygen is gets through all the blowing.

Actually, the problem is exhaling too much CO2 and making the blood too alkaline...

Kim

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Re: Piano Humidity Matters
« Reply #29 on: 25 January, 2017, 12:26:25 am »
Actually, the problem is exhaling too much CO2 and making the blood too alkaline...

Textbook method of fighting off Andromeda, innit.  Theoretically it ought to also work for hiccups, but I find acidosis (best done under adult supervision) is more effective.

Wombat

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Re: Piano Humidity Matters
« Reply #30 on: 25 January, 2017, 08:34:26 am »
I must confess when I say Helly's initial post, that my first thought was "are you SURE about that humidity reading?"  It does seem improbably low for any normal English house, unless Helly never bathes, or does any laundry  :sick:.  I rather doubt that's the case!
Wombat

LEE

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Re: Piano Humidity Matters
« Reply #31 on: 25 January, 2017, 08:54:54 am »
I don't know much about pianos, but I do have a humidity sensor in each room




Wow! Kim monitors the %age humidity of her family members.  That's so caring. I just give them tea and biscuits before dropping hints about the time.
Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Piano Humidity Matters
« Reply #32 on: 26 January, 2017, 09:58:07 am »
Do wind players actually shift more gas per minute than others?
Depends what wind and what gas...

Would simply leaving kitchen and bathroom doors open as much as possible allow more moisture into the room where the piano is? And is the piano actually suffering or is it simply that the readings are giving you cause for concern?
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hellymedic

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Re: Piano Humidity Matters
« Reply #33 on: 26 January, 2017, 11:45:33 am »
Do wind players actually shift more gas per minute than others?
Depends what wind and what gas...

Would simply leaving kitchen and bathroom doors open as much as possible allow more moisture into the room where the piano is? And is the piano actually suffering or is it simply that the readings are giving you cause for concern?

The kitchen door is seldom closed but we don't do much 'wet' cooking. I can't stand over a hot stove and microwaving veg generates only small amounts of steam. We aren't shower people and the door is closed when we bath but I'd get cold otherwise.

hellymedic

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Re: Piano Humidity Matters
« Reply #34 on: 26 January, 2017, 12:14:14 pm »
Some of the drop in pitch in this piano may be because the piano was bought new, if indeed it was, and some will be due to the drying out the wood due to low relative humidity. The problem at this end of the scale is because wood and metal - and carbon in the case of this piano - shrink at different rates. Regular servicing and tuning - 4 times a year for a new piano or one with new strings and twice a year for a stabilised piano - will ensure that the piano is able to settle and stabilise in a correct and accurately tuned state. Left unattended for a few years it could be that the piano stabilises in such a way that concert pitch would not be reattainable, because a significant change in tension of over 200 strings could too much for the wood.

Personally, I think 35% relative humidity is within a perfectly acceptable range and 30% would be nearing the limit I would want to see. I trust David keeps the piano away from radiators and direct sunlight. The British, mild and slightly damp climate should be fine, just worth keeping an eye on. From my experience with guitars which are also a combination of wood and strings but much thinner wood, the rate of change of temperature and relative humidity is more damaging that a specific temperature or humidity level (within acceptable limits).

The piano wasn't quite new but still had plastic film in places, suggesting it had hardly been played since manufacture.

The tuner who came to tune it after we bought it (from Jaques Samuel, the original dealer) said he didn't think the piano would need retuning for a year!!! It was tuned on 21 October so it's 3 months, which would fit with '4 times a year for a new piano'.

The autumn/winter here have been initially HOT and dryish then pretty cold and crisp. The indoor humidity unsurprisingly really dropped in the cold, crisp spell. It has been misty/foggy for the last few days; we'll see how that transpires [sic].

Indoor temperature here is around 21C by day and 18C at night.

David's piano reference sources suggest temperature is much less critical than humidity. Recommendations for optimal humidity are VERY inconsistent, with one site suggesting 45-70% and most sounding alarm bells below 40%.

I suspect something in the old hygrometer has dried out, if that's possible; It was responding to changes but consistently far below the new meter.

David seemed unable to get the old meter to read over 55% but I got it to 85% last night after wrapping it in a newly washed T-shirt clasped on my knee. I've put the old meter under the canopy outside now, where it's reading 67% and -1.6C. I'd like to see how it behaves in a prolonged downpour.

The hygrometer calibration kit has not yet made its epic journey from West Hampstead... 

hellymedic

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Re: Piano Humidity Matters
« Reply #35 on: 26 January, 2017, 03:21:35 pm »
Thanks! There is frequently a 5% change when the weather outside changes and this is less than a machine load of washing, even if the temperature is pretty constant and we seldom open windows.

I'm hoping a few pot plants and a more reliable hygrometer will do the trick.

Pedal Castro

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Re: Piano Humidity Matters
« Reply #36 on: 26 January, 2017, 07:38:54 pm »
Some of the drop in pitch in this piano may be because the piano was bought new, if indeed it was, and some will be due to the drying out the wood due to low relative humidity. The problem at this end of the scale is because wood and metal - and carbon in the case of this piano - shrink at different rates. Regular servicing and tuning - 4 times a year for a new piano or one with new strings and twice a year for a stabilised piano - will ensure that the piano is able to settle and stabilise in a correct and accurately tuned state. Left unattended for a few years it could be that the piano stabilises in such a way that concert pitch would not be reattainable, because a significant change in tension of over 200 strings could too much for the wood.

I suspect that this is possibly the case. The 1906 Bechstein sitting just outside my study seems fine in what I can only guess is very changing humidity over the course of a year. We do get it tuned twice a year, usually before each major concert.

hellymedic

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Re: Piano Humidity Matters
« Reply #37 on: 31 January, 2017, 08:32:56 pm »
The hygrometer calibration kit has not yet completed its epic journey from West Hampstead.

I have purchased further hygrometers.

They are very consistent with each other and read approximately midway between the Tchibo and the other meter.

I am inclined to believe the humidity around the piano is an acceptable 45%.

hellymedic

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Re: Piano Humidity Matters
« Reply #38 on: 01 February, 2017, 01:23:23 am »
... the humidity around the piano is an acceptable 45%.

You make it sound like a cloud, as if the piano has a special, acceptable, aura that hangs only in the vicinty of the piano!

Given that there are bowls of water with wicking cloths under the piano, several pot plants nearby and a trough of water beside the nearest radiator, that's about right!

Humidity near piano: 45%, 46%.
Humidity in hall:        41%
Kitchen:                    38%  a rise of 3% over the evening 'rain' icon now showing

hellymedic

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Re: Piano Humidity Matters
« Reply #39 on: 05 February, 2017, 04:31:21 pm »
The hygrometers seem to be settling down. Their readings seem to be getting closer and more consistent.
I decided to buy various potted herbs to augment humidity in the lounge.

The chives drink much water but make the place smell of onions - no surprise.
Some of the coriander ended up on last night's salmon, after I asked David to get some parsley. All labelling was discarded with the pot wrappings, it seems.

We are in for interesting cuisine. There's some basil I'd like to go in tonight's Bolognese but I might not get lucky.

Herbs in pots are cheap...